Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[mongoose33]

My Steam Slayer kit from Bobby arrived today. Unpacked it, looks like a great deal, and I didn't have to source all the parts myself. I especially like the valve which I hope will let me dial in a water flow. That's why I chose the 9GPH nozzle instead of the 6GPH, in the hopes I could dial down the flow to something less than 9 if it'll work.

Might just have to test it tonite and see how it all goes.

 

[cegan09]

Kit looks great. Much cleaner than what I was going to piece together.

Bobby, whoever did the welds on the sprayer cap, the stainless tube to the TC cap, either they are amazing or it was done by a machine. either way, very cool.

Kit with a few extra bits I got at the same time like the 90 degree TC and camlock.

 

[BrunDog]

I feel compelled to say this again... dialing down the pressure may not be a good idea. First, the flow is so little it will be difficult to dial the flow with a full port valve - a needle valve would be needed. More importantly, reducing pressure may reduce the atomization of the nozzle. This will create much less “surface area” of water droplets to absorb steam and make the heat transfer less efficient.

Please test it and report back, but I suspect the valve can be used for on/off function and not tuning.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Thanks guys, looks like I'll be ordering from Bobby. I checked the kit out and it looks great as always.

 

[cegan09]

I feel compelled to say this again... dialing down the pressure may not be a good idea. First, the flow is so little it will be difficult to dial the flow with a full port valve - a needle valve would be needed. More importantly, reducing pressure may reduce the atomization of the nozzle. This will create much less “surface area” of water droplets to absorb steam and make the heat transfer less efficient.

Please test it and report back, but I suspect the valve can be used for on/off function and not tuning.

I'm with you completely on this. The valve does not really allow for fine tuning at all. There's maybe 4 degrees of turning where it seems to go from full to nothing, the rest has no real change.

Did preliminary pump testing.
This is the pump I have, $20 high pressure pump meant for RVs and the like. Flow rate is more than sufficient.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072XLZX72/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I did confirm my fear with it however. It has a built in pressure switch, so that in an RV you can turn the sink off and the pump will turn off with the system pressurized. Hooking it up to the sprayer it goes into a loop of turning on for a fraction of a second, then turning off for a couple while the pressure bleeds out, then kicking on for a fraction of a second, etc. I did attach a tee and then a quarter turn valve to see if I could bleed some water back around to the pickup bucket and allow the pump to stay on constantly. It seems to work but I need to test further to see if it's providing enough flow through the nozzle. I got the 6 Gph sprayer and I agree I don't think there's enough margin in heat removal if I've reduced the flow.

Tomorrow I want to get a cheap pressure gauge to attach near the sprayer and see what the pump is building compared to my sink. I think the 6Gph is rated at 40psi. The spray with the pump did seem compatible to attached to the sink, but it's all anecdotal as I'm just comparing by sight and feel. Once I have the pressure gauge I'll setup a test and time how long it takes to fill 2L into a flask with each setup.

Worst comes to worst I'm just stuck running a long tube from my sink to the brew setup and I live with it. Or best case I prove that a pump setup can work for those not near a water hookup (don't think that will be many, but who knows).

 

[mongoose33]

I feel compelled to say this again... dialing down the pressure may not be a good idea. First, the flow is so little it will be difficult to dial the flow with a full port valve - a needle valve would be needed. More importantly, reducing pressure may reduce the atomization of the nozzle. This will create much less “surface area” of water droplets to absorb steam and make the heat transfer less efficient.

Please test it and report back, but I suspect the valve can be used for on/off function and not tuning.

I tried it out tonite, and you're right, the small valve wasn't effective in slowing the flow. I had a little success using the main valve that fed the water to the steam slayer.

 

[mongoose33]

OK, I've put it through its paces, at least a bit. Here's a short video showing how it works. Amazingly enough, it pulls a slight vacuum and no steam escapes the kettle around the lid. The equipment is first-rate and easy to set up.

However.....as you watch the video, note the steam that escapes the bucket. I'm sure it's less than if I just left the kettle uncovered, but there still was a fair amount of steam. I think it may work best in a bucket on which there's a lid and a hole for the silicone hose. If not, all we're doing is changing the location where the steam originates.



Here is a pic showing the use of two 90-degree elbows to either raise the unit or change the location relative to the kettle.



I have the 9gph nozzle on mine. I collected the waste water for 5 minutes by timer and measured the output: 1 gallon and 3/4 cup of water. Multiplied by 12 for an hour, and it's about 13 gallons. I may be able to dial that back a bit with the main valve; the small on on top of the unit is not able to adjust finely enough to do that. The water collected in the bucket was about 154 degrees.

I don't know if the 6gph nozzle will also work and of course reduce water usage. I'll have to see if I can get one, or if Bobby will offer them as a separate part.

So--it works, though some work needs to be done with the steam coming out of the bucket. I was hoping to virtually eliminate steam, and that's not happening at this point. More experimenting will be done. I might use a longer silicone hose and extend it to the P-trap under my sink, though that would just change the location of the steam coming from the unit.

 

[BrunDog]

...I did confirm my fear with it however. It has a built in pressure switch, so that in an RV you can turn the sink off and the pump will turn off with the system pressurized. Hooking it up to the sprayer it goes into a loop of turning on for a fraction of a second, then turning off for a couple while the pressure bleeds out, then kicking on for a fraction of a second, etc. I did attach a tee and then a quarter turn valve to see if I could bleed some water back around to the pickup bucket and allow the pump to stay on constantly. It seems to work but I need to test further to see if it's providing enough flow through the nozzle. I got the 6 Gph sprayer and I agree I don't think there's enough margin in heat removal if I've reduced the flow...

What you need is a pressure vessel of some sort... like a RO system pressure bladder so that the pump cycles get absorbed/buffered. A long length of flexible type tube might work... but the tube would have to provide the compliance since water is non-compressible.

Maybe something like this could work, but would probably need larger: http://a.co/d/gi6HWbi. Something like this definitely would: http://a.co/d/aSlDez4

Or, if I am you... I would crank the pressure switch up to the pump's limit. The pump will have a harder time providing high volume at pressure and might run continuously. It will also atomize better and add more water to condense better. Give that a try first - worse comes to it you burn out the pump a bit prematurely... but for $20 it wont crush the wallet.

 

[BrunDog]

@mongoose33, I can't speak for Bobby's design, but some steam will come out of the drain tube. It should be a very small fraction of what would come out of the boil. Remember that your boil power will be turned down from your typical power requirement. I used to boil at 55-60% and I now boil at 28%.

 

[schematix]

what criteria are you using to choose boil power? boil off rate? not boiling over?

 

[BrunDog]

Comparable boils, which are "very gently rolling".

 

[mongoose33]

There's another thread ongoing about thermal stress in the boil affecting the wort. I've read enough about this that I think it's a reasonable approach, and one I've been moving toward. Did a batch on Sunday, and had my power setting on either 35 or 45 percent (can't recall which for some reason, perhaps the pint of beer i'm sipping has something to do with that ).

I think Brundog already noted in this thread (or someone did) that DMS boiloff seems to occur sufficiently at those lower, more simmering boil levels. Seems reasonable.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

OK, I've put it through its paces, at least a bit. Here's a short video showing how it works. Amazingly enough, it pulls a slight vacuum and no steam escapes the kettle around the lid. The equipment is first-rate and easy to set up.

However.....as you watch the video, note the steam that escapes the bucket. I'm sure it's less than if I just left the kettle uncovered, but there still was a fair amount of steam. I think it may work best in a bucket on which there's a lid and a hole for the silicone hose. If not, all we're doing is changing the location where the steam originates.



Here is a pic showing the use of two 90-degree elbows to either raise the unit or change the location relative to the kettle.

View attachment 589120

I have the 9gph nozzle on mine. I collected the waste water for 5 minutes by timer and measured the output: 1 gallon and 3/4 cup of water. Multiplied by 12 for an hour, and it's about 13 gallons. I may be able to dial that back a bit with the main valve; the small on on top of the unit is not able to adjust finely enough to do that. The water collected in the bucket was about 154 degrees.

I don't know if the 6gph nozzle will also work and of course reduce water usage. I'll have to see if I can get one, or if Bobby will offer them as a separate part.

So--it works, though some work needs to be done with the steam coming out of the bucket. I was hoping to virtually eliminate steam, and that's not happening at this point. More experimenting will be done. I might use a longer silicone hose and extend it to the P-trap under my sink, though that would just change the location of the steam coming from the unit.

Sorry but I couldn't see any steam coming from the bucket. Are you able to use a long enough hose to run the water outside? The water cooling via a longer run might eliminate the steam all together.

 

[cegan09]

@mongoose33 Edit: Rewording this whole section. I didn't explain it well the first time

trying to adjust something that is pressure based by changing the volumetric flow rate is really hard. As long as the flow rate of the nozzle is smaller than the flow rate of the valve upstream the pressure being delivered will be the upstream line pressure. So as long as your valve is delivering greater than 9gph the pressure in the system will be your water source line pressure. If you can fine adjust and get it to be JUST under 9gph, you'll lower the pressure a little and lower the flow. But you're fighting with the tinest window and honestly it just isn't the right way to do it. There's a bunch of simplifications in that explanation.

The correct way to do it is with a true regulator like this one.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N7JZTYX/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That will let you dial your line pressure down accurately and repeatably. Even if the line pressure changes it should hold your setting. I will say that you shouldn't try to adjust below the sprayer stated flow rate. meaning if you want less than 9gph, get the 6gph spray nozzle and run it with higher pressure than 40psi. If you try to go lower than the stated sprayer flow rate you're going to risk not atomizing the water as much and make the condenser much less effective.

What you need is a pressure vessel of some sort... like a RO system pressure bladder so that the pump cycles get absorbed/buffered. A long length of flexible type tube might work... but the tube would have to provide the compliance since water is non-compressible.

Maybe something like this could work, but would probably need larger: http://a.co/d/gi6HWbi. Something like this definitely would: http://a.co/d/aSlDez4

Or, if I am you... I would crank the pressure switch up to the pump's limit. The pump will have a harder time providing high volume at pressure and might run continuously. It will also atomize better and add more water to condense better. Give that a try first - worse comes to it you burn out the pump a bit prematurely... but for $20 it wont crush the wallet.

Cheap pump doesn't have an adjustable pressure switch so I'm stuck with what I've got. The flexible bladder might work, but that takes up a bunch of space. I'm going to experiment with bleeding some water off a bit more before I call that method dead or not. If it doesn't work I'll look at something like you linked. Right now the pump claims a shut off pressure of 116psi, which doesn't mean it can really build that much pressure just that it shuts off there. I want to put the pressure gauge on it first and see what I'm getting. Theoretically as long as I'm getting 40psi at the spray nozzle I should be ok.

 

[jimfire85]

Just installed my steam Slayer as part of an expirimental system . Being that one of the frequent complaints of the low wattage all in one systems is the weak boil. Having a closed lid system seems like it would remedy that. Grabbed a non pump robobrew for a steal a few weeks ago and have been watching this thread, figure I'll guinea pig for those out there with these types of systems. Given the robobrew has a clamping lid, it should help provide a positive seal and ensure the vacuum for steam to exit. Still have a few items to setup for the system, but should get a brew done in week or two.

 

[mongoose33]

Sorry but I couldn't see any steam coming from the bucket. Are you able to use a long enough hose to run the water outside? The water cooling via a longer run might eliminate the steam all together.

Look just to the right and above the dial thermometer on the counterflow chiller. You're not going to see steam above the kettle--it's being drawn into the steam slayer.

 

[cegan09]

Did a water run of my new setup. Ended up not running the RIMS up to temp because the RTD in the tube is now reading 30 deg high, which is weird. Just set it up to boil, got from 80F to boiling in under an hour. My controller reads boil as 210, and the low boil I was aiming for as 209.

The condenser works awesome. I did this run with the sink hooked up through a long tubing run. Pump experiments will come later since I didn't get to grab a gauge today. Boiled off just over half a gallon, and had the power set to 70%. I have 3000W total, so that's around 2100W of power. If I insulate my kettle and lid I'm sure I can get that even lower, but right now I'm bleeding a lot of heat to the room. Completely thrilled with how well the condenser worked though. I think I generated around 8 gallons of water through it? Maybe a touch less? Waste water was in the 140 range, so it's more than enough cooling capacity for my setup.

Brundog Huge thanks for pioneering this setup, couldn't be happier with it.

 

[schematix]

Mine came today. Looks like a trip to the hw store for some fittings is in order to get the water hooked up.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I have 4 CFCs, copper chillzilla, stainless version, stainless shell and tube and just got the stout one. The shell and tube was ok, not near the efficiency of the spiral cfcs. There was a difference between the copper one and stainless one, but I recriculate, so was not a big deal. I recall it was just a few more minutes. Have not tested the stout.

I have idiopathic neuropathy in a toes and feet, been through every test know to man. No idea, so I started to eliminate things in life, so I cut all copper out of my Brewery, has it helped, unsure I changed so many things in my diet, but why risk it.

Dude I feel for you. My wife just came down with that a few weeks ago and we are in the testing mode now. That **** really hurts, my wife is tough and it has debilitated her so much. I hope you find relief.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I originally planned on a lid port but drew the same conclusion you did, i.e., it'd be harder to maneuver.

I plan to install mine on the lid. I will also include an access port that can be flipped open to add hops. If the lid is clamped tight and the port is designed right it shouldn't affect performance. IMO;-)

 

[ancientmariner52]

I plan to install mine on the lid. I will also include an access port that can be flipped open to add hops. If the lid is clamped tight and the port is designed right it shouldn't affect performance. IMO;-)

After examining my kit from Bobby M, I've decided to go with the lid mounting option, for two considerations. 1. Wherever I put it on the kettle, I'll probably wish it was somewhere else. 2. I can clamp the lid on my drill press table.

 

[ingchr1]

OK, I've put it through its paces, at least a bit. Here's a short video showing how it works. Amazingly enough, it pulls a slight vacuum and no steam escapes the kettle around the lid. The equipment is first-rate and easy to set up.

However.....as you watch the video, note the steam that escapes the bucket. I'm sure it's less than if I just left the kettle uncovered, but there still was a fair amount of steam. I think it may work best in a bucket on which there's a lid and a hole for the silicone hose. If not, all we're doing is changing the location where the steam originates.

I spray right into a pot, no escaping steam:

Link to my build thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...11-gallon-bayou-classic-with-boilcoil.643196/

 

[cegan09]

For the record, no need to clamp the lid on with a lid mounted system if it's mounted inward enough. I have mine just set on and there's no risk of tipping or falling off. I'll probably add a second 1.5" TC to the lid for adding additions, but for now it's easy enough to just lift the lid and dump in quickly.

Ignore the messiness. I hadn't trimmed the zip tie markers on the sight tube yet, and the water source line placement was just for testing.

 

[mongoose33]

For the record, no need to clamp the lid on with a lid mounted system if it's mounted inward enough. I have mine just set on and there's no risk of tipping or falling off. I'll probably add a second 1.5" TC to the lid for adding additions, but for now it's easy enough to just lift the lid and dump in quickly.

Ignore the messiness. I hadn't trimmed the zip tie markers on the sight tube yet, and the water source line placement was just for testing.

View attachment 589290

It probably helps that you have a fitting on the other side which balances the weight.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Sent my kettle into Spike last friday to have them add a couple TC ports to my kettle. I was just stunned at the quality of the work--unbelievably good. I don't know how they get it to look like this, but I'm not complaining.

That port is for Bobby's steamcatcher. Hope it's close to being here, I have other things I need to order from him and I'd like to get it all on one shipment.

View attachment 583630

Hi @mongoose33
Would you mind sharing info about how much Spike charged and what the turn around was? Did they send a return slip or did you have to figure shipping on your own? So glad I still have the box.

Thanks for any info.

The steam condenser route is probably the more logical and cost effective way to go after pricing out a condensate hood.

 

[milldoggy]

For the record, no need to clamp the lid on with a lid mounted system if it's mounted inward enough. I have mine just set on and there's no risk of tipping or falling off. I'll probably add a second 1.5" TC to the lid for adding additions, but for now it's easy enough to just lift the lid and dump in quickly.

Ignore the messiness. I hadn't trimmed the zip tie markers on the sight tube yet, and the water source line placement was just for testing.

View attachment 589290

I like orings for my sight glass markers, little cleaner.

 

[mongoose33]

Hi @mongoose33
Would you mind sharing info about how much Spike charged and what the turn around was? Did they send a return slip or did you have to figure shipping on your own? So glad I still have the box.

Thanks for any info.

The steam condenser route is probably the more logical and cost effective way to go after pricing out a condensate hood.

It cost me $50 per TC port welded into the kettle. As it turned out, I had two ports welded in, plus bought an extra lid. Total $140. Because the amount was above $100, shipping was free.

Now, I live about 2 1/2 hours from Spike, so I don't know what they would do in your case (Seattle). Clearly you'd have to have more than $100 of work, and I'm guessing you'd have free shipping, but that's only a guess.

Turnaround is that they only do custom work on Fridays, so if your kettle shows up on Monday, it's not getting done until Friday. Also, you need to fill out a spec sheet that shows exactly what you want and where on the kettle you want it positioned. Then they'd have to slot you in. Again, contact them at their email address.

Here's the one I sent them. There was a limit to how close to the kettle rim I could go, and how close to the handle, you may have to talk to them and figure that out.

 

[PeteSeattle]

It cost me $50 per TC port welded into the kettle. As it turned out, I had two ports welded in, plus bought an extra lid. Total $140. Because the amount was above $100, shipping was free.

Now, I live about 2 1/2 hours from Spike, so I don't know what they would do in your case (Seattle). Clearly you'd have to have more than $100 of work, and I'm guessing you'd have free shipping, but that's only a guess.

Turnaround is that they only do custom work on Fridays, so if your kettle shows up on Monday, it's not getting done until Friday. Also, you need to fill out a spec sheet that shows exactly what you want and where on the kettle you want it positioned. Then they'd have to slot you in. Again, contact them at their email address.

Here's the one I sent them. There was a limit to how close to the kettle rim I could go, and how close to the handle, you may have to talk to them and figure that out.

View attachment 589653

This is terrific information. Thank you very much! Figures that you live very close since it was hardly a weekend after you got your kettle back.

Just waiting to hear back from them.

 

[mongoose33]

This is terrific information. Thank you very much! Figures that you live very close since it was hardly a weekend after you got your kettle back.

Just waiting to hear back from them.

Actually, I didn't ship; that's just what it would have cost. I had a friend go into Milwaukee on Thursday night; he dropped it off Friday am, picked it up late Friday pm, and I had it back Sunday night.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Actually, I didn't ship; that's just what it would have cost. I had a friend go into Milwaukee on Thursday night; he dropped it off Friday am, picked it up late Friday pm, and I had it back Sunday night.

Still, pretty awesome.