Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[prosperbrews]

I highly doubt it was deleted, or if it was, that it was done with malice aforethought. There are all sorts of "my equipment has gone bad" posts here on HBT, and they're not deleted. It's part of people trying to decide if an equipment choice is reasonable, and if there are rust issues I'd think we'd all like to know about it.

Sometimes I write a reply, forget to finish it, pop into a different tab to do something else, and forget to actually click the "post reply" button. Is that possible?

Meanwhile, we've had a series of posts about this, and they haven't been deleted.

Actually, it most definitely was deleted and there was also one reply to my post which was also Deleted. I even got the email notification when someone replied to the post which had the reply documented in the email.

See attached - Metzen replied and noted his sprayer had also rusted.

Nonetheless, my sprayer was only used a few times so hoping we can all find an acceptable replacement part.

 

[doug293cz]

Actually, it most definitely was deleted and there was also one reply to my post which was also Deleted. I even got the email notification when someone replied to the post which had the reply documented in the email.

See attached - Metzen replied and noted his sprayer had also rusted.

Nonetheless, my sprayer was only used a few times so hoping we can all find an acceptable replacement part.

Ok, this is strange. I'll see if I can get someone at a higher pay grade to look into what happened.

doug293cz

 

[mikehoover]

I put a hose filter washer, the kind you put on your washing machine connections, where my hose connects to the condenser unit to catch any particles that come out of the pipes. I still have some galvanized pipes in my house and get particles every once in a while.

 

[skidmark]

The little bit of research I did on 416 stainless says that it is an alloy more tuned to easy machining rather than corrosion resistance. It lacks nickel, which really provides the "stainless" character. It is also high in sulfur. You may be seeing sulfides, not rust. Proper passivation with a alkaline/acid/alkaline process made be required, or just dry it after use and clean it as necessary.

 

[BrunDog]

Oddly, the product note says “offers mild corrosion resistance”. So, it’s not like they didn’t tell us! I guess I overlooked that part!

I did buy a brass sprayer a while back. I haven’t tried it yet since it doesn’t have a strainer on the front of it. I should give it a try and report back how it works. I don’t want anything non-SS in my brewery, but since this is technically out of the liquid path, it shouldn’t matter.

 

[ingchr1]

I noticed rust on mine after the first use. Thought it may have been an isolated incident, I guess not. Subsequent uses I've been pulling it out of the tube to dry.

 

[doug293cz]

Actually, it most definitely was deleted and there was also one reply to my post which was also Deleted. I even got the email notification when someone replied to the post which had the reply documented in the email.

See attached - Metzen replied and noted his sprayer had also rusted.

Nonetheless, my sprayer was only used a few times so hoping we can all find an acceptable replacement part.

Ok, this is strange. I'll see if I can get someone at a higher pay grade to look into what happened.

doug293cz

Feedback from the mod/admin team is that those posts were not deliberately deleted. The best theory is they got lost in the server move on Wednesday. As I said previously, there was nothing in the lost posts that would have caused a mod to delete them. Doesn't appear to be any way to retrieve them, but I think the topic of the posts has been well covered.

Let's get back to the topic of the thread, with no more discussion of the dropped posts. If you want to talk more about that, start a conversation (PM) with me.

doug293cz

 

[PR-brewing]

Hey, i have been looking at this thread for some time now and just started looking for parts; building a condenser really appeals to my professional side. For any Canadians who have built this, where are you sourcing your spray nozzles from? I've only just started the search on the internet, but i'm only really seeing places that require accounts.

I am excited about getting something like this built to get me out of the elements! (Winter is coming... I don't want to have to wait for -10C/30F days so the propane will still flows! haha)

Thank you!

 

[Juuso]

I am building my new brewing system now.
I ordered my spray nozzle from here
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-3...084.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dXOlzV8

I have tried it few times connected to water hose but not with actual brewing yet. Product description says it is S304 stainless. Don't know, but I have not seen any rust on it. It is bspt thread.

 

[CodeSection]

@BrunDog , I used your invention last Tuesday night and it worked perfectly! I bought all the parts from your part list you posted earlier in this thread and built a 2" system for my 20 gallon Spike kettle.

Thank you for sharing your invention, design and where to buy the parts!

 

[BrunDog]

Glad to hear it! Happy that brewers are having success with it.

 

[tripleD]

Brundog, thank you for the inspiration. I have made it to page 10 of the discussion, but have to get to bed and want to ask my question before I get too groggy and lost my thoughts.
I hate wasting water. I was thinking I could use the waste water line from my RO water filter as the supply for the spray nozzle. I usually make water for my next brew while I am brewing anyways.
My question is, does anyone have an idea what the pressure on the waste side of an RO filter is? I have asked the googles, but must not be wording my searches right, because, I haven't found an answer.
I could always collect the waste water in a bucket and use a pump to boost pressure to feed the assembly, but I like the idea of having everything hard plumbed.
My questions are A: is the pressure on the waste line high enough to be effective and B: will the nozzle put too much back pressure on the RO membrane rendering it useless. I am worrried that B is true, but I was an Econ major so I will defer to the engineers on this one. Thank you in advance.

 

[mongoose33]

Brundog, thank you for the inspiration. I have made it to page 10 of the discussion, but have to get to bed and want to ask my question before I get too groggy and lost my thoughts.
I hate wasting water. I was thinking I could use the waste water line from my RO water filter as the supply for the spray nozzle. I usually make water for my next brew while I am brewing anyways.
My question is, does anyone have an idea what the pressure on the waste side of an RO filter is? I have asked the googles, but must not be wording my searches right, because, I haven't found an answer.
I could always collect the waste water in a bucket and use a pump to boost pressure to feed the assembly, but I like the idea of having everything hard plumbed.
My questions are A: is the pressure on the waste line high enough to be effective and B: will the nozzle put too much back pressure on the RO membrane rendering it useless. I am worrried that B is true, but I was an Econ major so I will defer to the engineers on this one. Thank you in advance.

I don't know the answer, but it's a really, really good question. I have an RO system, same deal.

 

[CodeSection]

I guess I may not be understanding correctly. I thought the RO system makes and wastes water when filling up the typical 2-3 gallon holding tank. So, if the holding tank is full, there is no waste water since no water is being forced through the RO membrane.

If you are either using the 6gph or 9gph nozzle, you would have to be able to hold that much water. Plus, you would need a pump to get the water pressure above 40 psi.

How about using your hose bib or water faucet like normal and use that waste water created on plants or something else?

 

[BrunDog]

I’m not an expert on RO but there are people on this forum who are.

That said, I think the higher the waste back pressure, the less effective the membrane. You would need a steady pressure and adequate volume. So given those variables, you would probably ensure success by using a boost pump, and I don’t think that would cost you much in terms or dollars nor hardware - just drain to a bucket then pump out of it.

Given a 4:1 waste:RO, you would need a system that can make ~2.5 gph of RO water in order to get the ~9 gph for the sprayer. Also keep in mind that water will have an increased concentration of minerals, so long term performance of the nozzle should be monitored.

 

[mongoose33]

I guess I may not be understanding correctly. I thought the RO system makes and wastes water when filling up the typical 2-3 gallon holding tank. So, if the holding tank is full, there is no waste water since no water is being forced through the RO membrane.

If you are either using the 6gph or 9gph nozzle, you would have to be able to hold that much water. Plus, you would need a pump to get the water pressure above 40 psi.

How about using your hose bib or water faucet like normal and use that waste water created on plants or something else?

Both TripleD and I use our RO systems to make water for our next brew while we're brewing the current one.

I bought an RO system from Buckeye Hydro but it's not hooked to a holding tank like a standard indoor installation would be. Instead I simply drop the output line into an Aquatainer. When I brew, I empty the aquatainer into the boil kettle then set the RO system to start refilling the Aquatainer. Meanwhile, there's all this wastewater going down the drain. It would be nice to use it though, based on Brundog's thoughts above, it may not be viable.

 

[tripleD]

Than

I’m not an expert on RO but there are people on this forum who are.

That said, I think the higher the waste back pressure, the less effective the membrane. You would need a steady pressure and adequate volume. So given those variables, you would probably ensure success by using a boost pump, and I don’t think that would cost you much in terms or dollars nor hardware - just drain to a bucket then pump out of it.

Given a 4:1 waste:RO, you would need a system that can make ~2.5 gph of RO water in order to get the ~9 gph for the sprayer. Also keep in mind that water will have an increased concentration of minerals, so long term performance of the nozzle should be monitored.

Thanks for the response. I found an inline John Guest pressure meter. I ordered two. Once they show up, I will be able to measure pressure on the waste line. However your comment jogged my memory. I have a 100 gpd membrane. I dont recall my waste ratio, but 4:1 sounds about right. If that is true, flow through waste line would be 400 gpd or 16 gph unrestricted. Restricting that flow to 9 gph would put back pressure on the membrane.
Luckily, I live in an area with pretty soft water and have a whole house water softener. Total dissolved solids into my filter is 20 ppm. Econ math results is 25 ppm TDS on the waste side. That is still lower than most cities levels so not super concerned about clogging the mister.

I will report back on my progress. Unfortunately everyone seems to be sold out of the 2" TC 1/2" NPT full coupler. Looks like I will have to go 1.5" TC unless someone can point me to a vendor that has it in stock.

 

[tripleD]

Good eye! The picture is pretty close to the finished design but I'll post some pics of the final one very soon. The tee is more like an instrument tee, but the side port is closer to the top to leave more space for the condensing. The bottom skips the TC flange, clamp and gasket and just has a 5/8" hose barb welded. Instead of a compression fitting as shown on the top, there will be a 90 degree shutoff valve with a push to connect fitting for the water supply. I'm planning to include some length of PE tubing and a female garden hose fitting on the far end. The sprayer tip is threaded in to a tube that is welded to the TC cap/adapter. The whole plan was to make it as compact and inexpensive as possible. I had great success running the 6gpm @ 40psi and reducing my normal power input of 60% down to 30%.

View attachment 577652

Bobby,
Any update on when these will be rolled out? Just checked your site and couldn't find them. Since I can't find the 2" TC 1/2" NPT full coupling anywhere, I might as well give your solution a shot.

 

[mongoose33]

Bobby,
Any update on when these will be rolled out? Just checked your site and couldn't find them. Since I can't find the 2" TC 1/2" NPT full coupling anywhere, I might as well give your solution a shot.

Supposed to be this coming week, according to what I read elsewhere. I'm chompin' at the bit for this, had a TC port added to my kettle to accommodate this.

You're at best second in line, btw.

 

[Bobby_M]

Shipment got delayed by a few days but should be arriving this week. 100 pieces so no fighting necessary.

 

[tripleD]

Shipment got delayed by a few days but should be arriving this week. 100 pieces so no fighting necessary.

Can you let us know what price will be? Don't want to wait a few days to start a ordering pieces if the price is going to be too high.

 

[Bobby_M]

Can you let us know what price will be? Don't want to wait a few days to start a ordering pieces if the price is going to be too high.

Intro price is $99 not including the clamp and gasket to attach to the pot.

 

[cegan09]

Curious to see all the parts included with yours. This is still on my list to make/buy so I can move fully indoors, and my initial list of parts has it cheaper to buy the piece parts separate.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

the one I just added up on his site came to $140 but thats coming out of the lid and with the connections to my water in and out, I think each configuration would be different

 

[cegan09]

For sure each configuration is different. I will be doing a lid mount as well, so I have that other cost. But on the flip side, I have access to a machine shop, and own a TIG welder, so I can make the top section from a blank TC cap, a section of stainless 1/8"NPT pipe, and the spray nozzle for a lot cheaper than trying to link together a bunch of adapters and reducers.

Not knocking Bobby and that price at all. If I go the full DIY route I'll still buy most of the parts from him anyway. I was just stating I"m curious how it will work out.


I'm also going to play with pumps. I don't always want to tie up my sink, and I think I have a pump that can generate the pressure needed to run the 6GPH nozzle. I have a scheme in my head that involves building another window AC based chiller that could be used to maintain cool temps in a set volume of water and essentially turn the condensor into a closed loop system. Start with say 5-8 gallons of water and just use that volume for the whole boil. The appeal here is mostly due to not having a convent place to brew near a sink, not wanting to run a long water line somewhere, and not being able to modify the apartment to add another water tap.

 

[BrunDog]

Just keep in mind with a sprayer the condensate gets loaded into the spray water. If you want to do a closed loop which doesn’t contaminate internally, you would need to mount up a heat exchanger like an air:water or air:water:air radiator. I had thought of testing this as a next generation system for those who are really concerned about wasting water, but haven’t yet started to do the math and source appropriate parts.

 

[Bobby_M]

Curious to see all the parts included with yours. This is still on my list to make/buy so I can move fully indoors, and my initial list of parts has it cheaper to buy the piece parts separate.

It's not made from off the shelf parts so it would be a hard comparison to make to other vendors or even a pile of parts that I sell.

Garden hose to 1/4" tube adapter, 6ft of water supply tubing, tube adapter to water valve.
Custom TC flange with long tube into which the included 6GPH sprayer threads into.
Tc clamp and gasket for top.
Custom main body tee with an integrated bottom hose barb for condensate drain.
3ft of silicone tubing and a clip to hold it to the catch bucket.
Detailed instructions for use.

The good news is that I've been using it on every brew since the first prototype and 2 of the beers took gold medals. I'm convinced enough that the boil is driving off things like DMS.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Just keep in mind with a sprayer the condensate gets loaded into the spray water. If you want to do a closed loop which doesn’t contaminate internally, you would need to mount up a heat exchanger like an air:water or air:water:air radiator. I had thought of testing this as a next generation system for those who are really concerned about wasting water, but haven’t yet started to do the math and source appropriate parts.

Neat idea Brundog, although I really think the "wasted" water is trivial in the grand scheme of things. How much water goes down the drain when using a chiller compared to your condenser? I'd wager a lot more for the chiller such that the 6-9 gallons from the condenser is insignificant.

That being said, to explore this idea further: You could get a heat exchanger that could function as a wort chiller so you only need one heat exchanger. The steam condensing should sanitize it during the boil and then switch over to wort chilling. Just need a way to rinse it out prior to chilling...hmm...sounds like another set of automatic valves!

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

It's not made from off the shelf parts so it would be a hard comparison to make to other vendors or even a pile of parts that I sell.

Garden hose to 1/4" tube adapter, 6ft of water supply tubing, tube adapter to water valve.
Custom TC flange with long tube into which the included 6GPH sprayer threads into.
Tc clamp and gasket for top.
Custom main body tee with an integrated bottom hose barb for condensate drain.
3ft of silicone tubing and a clip to hold it to the catch bucket.
Detailed instructions for use.

The good news is that I've been using it on every brew since the first prototype and 2 of the beers took gold medals. I'm convinced enough that the boil is driving off things like DMS.

Bobby - Thanks for building this! Looking forward to putting it in my cart as soon as it shows up in your store.

Will there be an option for a different size sprayer? My summer water temps are in the mid-70's, which will require the 9 GPH sprayer.

 

[cegan09]

Just keep in mind with a sprayer the condensate gets loaded into the spray water. If you want to do a closed loop which doesn’t contaminate internally, you would need to mount up a heat exchanger like an air:water or air:water:air radiator. I had thought of testing this as a next generation system for those who are really concerned about wasting water, but haven’t yet started to do the math and source appropriate parts.

What is there honestly that would contaminate? I know all the steam and everything you're boiling off gets pulled into the spray water, but it's not like you're pulling out large particles that could clog something. I'd be draining the water from the system after every brew, and a quick rinse of the system should be ok. Going this route wouldn't be for water conservation as much as it's driven by not having a place near a sink that's convenient to brew. I'm probably a long way off from even trying a closed loop system, just thinking out loud about it. I do want to run a few quick calculations to see if a window AC could keep up with the heat coming from the condenser setup.

First version will likely be a pump driven setup that pulls from a bucket of water that I'd need to refill over the course of the boil. If I can prove that the pump I have can drive the spray nozzle appropriately I'll share the info here for those that might be interested.

It's not made from off the shelf parts so it would be a hard comparison to make to other vendors or even a pile of parts that I sell.

Garden hose to 1/4" tube adapter, 6ft of water supply tubing, tube adapter to water valve.
Custom TC flange with long tube into which the included 6GPH sprayer threads into.
Tc clamp and gasket for top.
Custom main body tee with an integrated bottom hose barb for condensate drain.
3ft of silicone tubing and a clip to hold it to the catch bucket.
Detailed instructions for use.

The good news is that I've been using it on every brew since the first prototype and 2 of the beers took gold medals. I'm convinced enough that the boil is driving off things like DMS.

Thanks for the list Bobby. I have no doubt that your version works great, everything else I've purchased from you has been flawless. I love the RIMS tube I got from you. Mostly I just need to compare a full DIY setup to your setup + the extra parts I'd need to make it 100% what I want.