Bock

[duskb]

I brewed up a Bock/lager about 3 weeks ago. I haven't taken gravity readings yet but I'm probably going to before the weekend starts.

My reason for writing is that I had heard someone say that this was the sort of beer I should leave alone for "months" not weeks. (Typically, I keg every beer at 3 weeks, directly out of primary and then condition for 2 weeks in the kegerator.) This would be a significant departure form that approach.

I know some beers NEED secondary (like barleywines) because they need time to condition. Are Bocks the same or can I just keg and forget about it?

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Let it sit. Lagers need a LOT more time to condition that ales if you expect to have that clean crisp taste. I typically let my lagers sit for 3-4 months on average for lighter lagers, and 6+months for heavy lagers above 1.065. The longer you can wait, the better.

 

[duskb]

Let it sit. Lagers need a LOT more time to condition that ales if you expect to have that clean crisp taste. I typically let my lagers sit for 3-4 months on average for lighter lagers, and 6+months for heavy lagers above 1.065. The longer you can wait, the better.

Well this clocked in at 1.072 (the target OG was supposed to be 1.067 but I missed it a bit.) So I guess I move this to carboy this week?

Since it's a lager conditioning near Ale temps (at 60) does the secondary also need to be cooled or can it sit at room temp?

 

[zgoda]

Since it's a lager conditioning near Ale temps (at 60) does the secondary also need to be cooled or can it sit at room temp?

Should be even colder than primary. The closer to 32F the better.

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

Go ahead and keg it up if its done. You don't need the yeast anymore at this point, you just need to lager it for a while. You can do that in the keg.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Well this clocked in at 1.072 (the target OG was supposed to be 1.067 but I missed it a bit.) So I guess I move this to carboy this week?

Since it's a lager conditioning near Ale temps (at 60) does the secondary also need to be cooled or can it sit at room temp?

Are you not using lager yeast? 60 is pretty high for a lager. I would definitely get that beer down to 34-35 for it's lagering phase and let it sit for at least 4-6 months.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Go ahead and keg it up if its done. You don't need the yeast anymore at this point, you just need to lager it for a while. You can do that in the keg.

This is what I'd do. But I'd let the keg sit at lager fermentation temps for a couple of weeks (it might naturally carb the beer a little), then chill it to as close to freezing as you can, then do a closed keg-to-keg transfer (from liquid-out post to liquid-out post), then let that keg sit at as close to freezing as possible for the remainder (at least a month).

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

It sounds like you brewed this using an ale yeast. If so, just treat it like you normally do.

If you used a lager yeast, transfer to a keg. Then, slowly bring the temp down by about 5º a day until you are at about 34º. Hold it there for at least a month and a half. Enjoy.

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

There are a lot of different ways people handle it. The way that I do it is to rack to a keg when the beer is finished fermenting. I then leave it there for 2-4 weeks for a lager and then start tasting it every few days until I think it is at its best. This allows you to mentally (or if you are more organized than me, on paper) gather tasting notes to help you fine tune your process for the next time. The idea is to find out what works best for you in your brewery. That way you can do things more consistently and that will allow you tweak your process and understand the changes that will make.

What yeast did you use on this one?

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Check out Kaiser's Fermenting Lagers page. Some do it the traditional/commercial way (like Boerderij Kabouter suggested) and some do the 'accelerated maturation' (like I and MachineShop suggested) as it is called in that article. Both work, I do the accelerated maturation for logistics reasons (I can't chill to 34* F because I have another lager fermenting in the same fridge).

 

[duskb]

There are a lot of different ways people handle it. The way that I do it is to rack to a keg when the beer is finished fermenting. I then leave it there for 2-4 weeks for a lager and then start tasting it every few days until I think it is at its best. This allows you to mentally (or if you are more organized than me, on paper) gather tasting notes to help you fine tune your process for the next time. The idea is to find out what works best for you in your brewery. That way you can do things more consistently and that will allow you tweak your process and understand the changes that will make.

What yeast did you use on this one?

The yeast was a used cake of White Labs WLP810 San Francisco Lager. It was leftover from a Cali Common (which calls for elevated temps). I kegged the Common and pitched onto the yeast the same night (part of why my gravity came in a bit high, I miscalculated volume because of the trub). The target temp for the Common was 60 though I let it run a bit high, more in the 63 range.

According the the brew store, the yeast and the temp would work fine for both recipes. I understand a true lager needs to run really cold but with this yeast I ran it high because I understood this was ok. If I was wrong it's too late to change it now.

I don't have a way to lager this that cold outside the kegerator. It sounds like if I'm hearing you guys right my best bet is to keg, chill, and forget about it for a while, transfer and then carb later, correct?

 

[cactusgarrett]

One rule of thumb i use when truly lagering (with lager yeast) is for every 8 grav points, give it a week of lagering at 33°F. So, for a beer at 1.067: 72 ÷ 8 = 9 weeks.

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

According the the brew store, the yeast and the temp would work fine for both recipes. I understand a true lager needs to run really cold but with this yeast I ran it high because I understood this was ok. If I was wrong it's too late to change it now.

Yeah, your temp was fine for that yeast.

I don't have a way to lager this that cold outside the kegerator. It sounds like if I'm hearing you guys right my best bet is to keg, chill, and forget about it for a while, transfer and then carb later, correct?

You can keg and carb it up now if you want. Do you have room in the kegerator for a keg you might not drink on for a few weeks? If so, then just throw it in there and cold condition it for a few weeks. I usually start pulling off samples after about 2-3 weeks for tasting. I wouldn't even bother with transferring again after that. You could, but I never have. Does the beer look clear?

 

[jjones17]

Let it sit. Lagers need a LOT more time to condition that ales if you expect to have that clean crisp taste. I typically let my lagers sit for 3-4 months on average for lighter lagers, and 6+months for heavy lagers above 1.065. The longer you can wait, the better.

Such is true with all beers, however to answer OPs question with my own personal experience, I would say exactly the above but I would replace the word need with can benefit from. Sounds like I am splitting hairs, but honestly I cannot tell the difference between a lager I have made that sat for 3-4 months or I drank when it was finished. Yes, there is a difference - and the sooner I realized this as a homebrewer the better off I was.

I brewed a bock in October that was not done until Febuary. I brewed a doppelbock in December that was done in 5 weeks or so. I made an american light lager that was crystal clear, crisp, and tasty that was done in about 6 weeks. It just depends, OP, but do not be afraid to keg that up right now. It might be ready 3 weeks from now, or 3 months. You will know if it is ready when it tastes ready.

Side note - I lagered half of my doppelbock batch and left the rest at room temp for the same amount of time. They both taste exactly the same. I will never lager a batch again unless I have spare fridge/cold room space since it does not seem to make a difference to me.

 

[duskb]

Yeah, your temp was fine for that yeast.

You can keg and carb it up now if you want. Do you have room in the kegerator for a keg you might not drink on for a few weeks? If so, then just throw it in there and cold condition it for a few weeks. I usually start pulling off samples after about 2-3 weeks for tasting. I wouldn't even bother with transferring again after that. You could, but I never have. Does the beer look clear?

Thank you all for the clarification. I do have room for a spare keg to sit on gas for a few weeks which is what I pretty much end up doing anyways. (10PSI, 2-3 weeks, etc, etc,)

I have never transferred after conditioning because at worst I loose maybe a cup of sludgy beer of the first draw everything after that is pretty clean.

I haven't actually checked the beer over yet but I'm going to take a reading this weekend. At that time I'll get a better idea of clarity. Why do you ask?

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

I haven't actually checked the beer over yet but I'm going to take a reading this weekend. At that time I'll get a better idea of clarity. Why do you ask?

That will affect how long it will need to cold condition. Most of the cold conditioning is to clear the beer and smooth out the flavor. Being as this is your first time attempting something like this, I would start "sampling" the beer after about 2 weeks and try to make it last for a couple months. That way your palate can understand what changes happen in your beer and you will be able to make the determination for yourself the next time as to what your process will be.

 

[duskb]

That will affect how long it will need to cold condition. Most of the cold conditioning is to clear the beer and smooth out the flavor. Being as this is your first time attempting something like this, I would start "sampling" the beer after about 2 weeks and try to make it last for a couple months. That way your palate can understand what changes happen in your beer and you will be able to make the determination for yourself the next time as to what your process will be.

Good advice. Let me check the beer today. I'll post back with my results in a few weeks once the beer has started to age a bit more.

Thanks again.

 

[duskb]

Good advice. Let me check the beer today. I'll post back with my results in a few weeks once the beer has started to age a bit more.

Thanks again.

Well, the plot thickens. I went ahead and tried a few things to speed this batch up and I've got to say this is really stuck. In the last two weeks I've tried the following:

1. Raised the temp to 68 (!) which is really high for a lager (even a common).
2. Shook the hell out of it.
3. Added some hydrated Nottingham yeast (at the recomendation of the brew store) to clean up the last few points.

I took a reading today...1.030. NOT A BUDGE out of this sucker. It tastes good but, damned if thing won't go anywhere. Either that or my hydrometer is wrong.

(On a side note, when I explaned my problem to the store two weeks ago they also admitted they'd had been having problems with a recent batch of pale extract not cleaning up, which may explain part of this...)

Anyways, does one say "to hell with it" and keg it or trying leaving it on the yeast(s) for a few more weeks?