Blue Moon Clone

[J8D]

EKJohns,

How much Valencia and Coriander did you end up using?

J8D

 

[ekjohns]

3 tsp of coriander and 1.5 tsp of dried orange peel. However mine had a bunch of different problems so I don't know about taste. I'm going to try again sat with 2-3 tsp corriander and 2 fresh zested oranges. Jamil show talked about wit beer and they said you really can't add too much orange peel. I will also be trying s-33 as a yeast. Suppose to be like s-05 only a little sweeter and malty. Has anyone ever used s-33 and have any thoughs on it?

 

[ekjohns]

wayne - Do you know what kind of wheat coor's uses? I have been reading the differences between malted, unmalted and flaked wheat. Did coor's get raw unmalted and malt them itself. For this clone you mentioned using malted white wheat, is this because it is the easiest and cheapest to work with or is it the best grain for the clone?

 

[Wild Duk]

I used 3 tsp. of corriander and 2 oz. of fresh zest. It was about 4-5 oranges. I taste mostly the corriander. The orange flavor is subtle at best. Maybe more orange, or add it sooner than flameout, I'm not sure. Its a good, light refreshing beer, but not close to blue moon....

 

[kjdoyle]

Friday night we brewed a second batch of this....the first turned out pretty good, not Blue Moon, but certainly in that style. I used the BierMuncher receipe that had the fresh zest of 2 oranges, a lemon and a red grapfriut. I also added 6 oz of orange marmalade a tablespoon of black pepper and used the Wyeast 3944 Belgian Wit yeast. This was a partial mash, as I started with Northern Brewers Belgian Wit kit and added 1.2 lbs of oats (rolled oats) and 3/4 lb Munich Malt. Differences to Blue Moon that I could see/taste were darker, due to extract and addition of Munich Malt, way to "orangy" probably due to the marmalade on top of all that zest. It was still quite good however and 2 cases were finished off last night (Just in time to start chillin the Kolsch)

Anyway, thanks to this thread, on our second batch of this I did things differently...I started with the Northern Brewer Wit kit, which has 6+ lbs of Wheat Malt extract (65/45 wheat to barley) which is not the right ratio of Blue Moon, but I am not quite ready to go all grain. Also, the hop addition on that kit is 2oz of French Strisselspalt for a full 60 minute boil. This time I did a 30 minute steep of 1.2 lbs of rolled oats, and for spices I added 6 tsp corriander at 10 minutes remaining and 2.25 tsp ground valencia peels at 5 minutes. I used the same Wyeast 3944 Belgian yeast again.

OG measured 1.048 and it was bubbling away 10 hours later. I will try and keep you updated on the taste.

 

[munche]

I actually just ordered the ingredients to do this one AG, and per Wayne's advice I'll be using either Cali Ale WLP001 that I harvested from my Red, or T-05. It'll be nice to compare this to the AHS Belgian Half Wit

 

[Wayne1]

wayne - Do you know what kind of wheat coor's uses? I have been reading the differences between malted, unmalted and flaked wheat. Did coor's get raw unmalted and malt them itself. For this clone you mentioned using malted white wheat, is this because it is the easiest and cheapest to work with or is it the best grain for the clone?

Blue Moon was and is mostly brewed under contract at different brewery locations. At SandLot we used Great Western pale malt at first. Later on we did use Coors barley. The wheat was bags of Great Western malted white wheat. I believe nowadays they are known as Rahr.

I have made it with Briess malted white wheat. I recently obtained some malted white wheat from Colorado Malting Company. I might use that the next time I make a Blue Moon clone. I don't think it will make a great deal of difference what brand of American white wheat is used. If European wheat is used, it might make a slight flavor difference, but not a lot.

I would not use flaked or unmalted wheat for this beer.

 

[ekjohns]

well i brewed this this past weekend which was:
5 lbs white wheat malt
2 lbs 2 row
2 lb maris otter
2 oranges zested (using the small grooved zester which got alot of oil) flameout
0.5 oz corriander flameout
US-05 fermented at 64-68F
Mashed at 154F
90 min boil
1 oz Kent golding 5.3% 90 min boil

So far the smell coming out of the fermenter has been spot on to blue moon and color looks really close as well. I will keep everyone posted on taste. This was a hybrid of a bunch of blue moon clones. Most people were saying 2 weeks primary then keg right away. Does this sound right?

 

[passedpawn]

Most people were saying 2 weeks primary then keg right away. Does this sound right?

Yes .

 

[Wayne1]

well i brewed this this past weekend which was:
5 lbs white wheat malt
2 lbs 2 row
2 lb maris otter
2 oranges zested (using the small grooved zester which got alot of oil) flameout
0.5 oz corriander flameout
US-05 fermented at 64-68F
Mashed at 154F
90 min boil
1 oz Kent golding 5.3% 90 min boil

So far the smell coming out of the fermenter has been spot on to blue moon and color looks really close as well. I will keep everyone posted on taste. This was a hybrid of a bunch of blue moon clones. Most people were saying 2 weeks primary then keg right away. Does this sound right?

Technical quibles.
There really is not much difference between Marris Otter and 2-row. They are both two row barley. With Marris Otter, you have a "brand name" strain of barley. It will be different depending on where it is grown and who malts it. Floor malted Marris Otter is very good and traditional for making English Bitter.

Blue Moon is an "American Wit" that uses American 2-row barley, American white wheat and American flaked oats for it's grain bill.

Of course you can make any beer any way you like it. To accurately call what you make a Blue Moon Clone you should only use the ingredients I posted about in the beginning of this thread.

As with other recipes, I am sure you have made a very good wit beer in but I would not call it a Blue Moon clone. It could be said to be in the style of Blue Moon or a tribute to Blue Moonor even your interpretation of Blue Moon, but it is not a clone.

The hops used should not be Kent Golding, but Hallertau. The flavor of hops grown in Germany are quite a bit different than those in the UK or US.

This looks to be a very nice recipe for more of an English wit.

Yes, I am overly anal about the definition of a clone beer.

 

[midfielder5]

Wayne,
I know you said that your recipe is ten or so years old & you do not know specifically how it has changed over time--- but I am wondering if you have drank one recently and could say it was different, and then speculate on the changes.
IMO, that might be why some are not following your very-direct- and detailed clone recipe in this thread.
I got a commercial Blue Moon today, and will drink it and follow this thread before considering a brew of it.
Cheers!

 

[BrewNinja1]

Well I brewed this exactly as Wayne had put forth (cept with 3tsp cor/1tsp orange). I will be kegging this sometime this weekend after 3 weeks in primary and will post back on how it turned out.

 

[BrewNinja1]

I put this in the keg yesterday and forced carbed it then put it in the keezer. I took a sample this morning, and its heavy on the corriander. Im thinking about grabbing a 6'er of blue moon to compare it to directly though (im going by memory) and when I do that I will post back. Im hoping in a couple of weeks the flavors with blend a little better. Not bad though still. Thanks Wayne for all the info you gave!

 

[kjdoyle]

well, I'm starting to worry that I over did the coriander.... I based my calculations on Wayne's ratios on the original, and I also assumed 6tsp = 1 oz...is that assumption correct?

 

[BrewNinja1]

I know that with 3 tsp Im borderline too much after 3 weeks. I think 6 will be pretty spicy...but you wont know till you try it!

 

[kjdoyle]

I know there were several batches due to be ready around now...any taste updates?

 

[BrewNinja1]

I finally got some Blue Moon yesterday (it wasnt cold), gonna try them side by side tonight...will post back later!

 

[CreekBrewery]

I did a batch last weekend following Wayne's guidance to a T for a 5 gallon batch. I'll be bottling shorty and will be serving at a Milwaukee Brewer outing at the end of the month. Should be a crowd pleaser if it's even somewhat close to the original. I'll post my beer lover feedback as well as the 'regular' folks

 

[ekjohns]

i tried a modified version and will keg tomorrow so i will take a taste. Modifications will be posted when i get home and can get the brewsheet. I however know i used 0.5oz corriander (cracked with a beer bottle so the crack was not very fine) and 2 large oranges fresh zested. In my experience the dried orange peel just never gives the flavor i want in a 5 gal batch and several others agree on this

 

[BrewNinja1]

OK...here we go. This is from the recipe I posted a page or two back. First a pic. Original on the left, mine on the right:

Now this is for a 5.5g batch. 3 tsp of corriander is almost spot on. I wouldnt change it for next time until the other flavors are just right. Which brings me to the orange. There is absolutely no orange flavor. The original has a very strong orange flavor comparatively. The original is a little "sweeter" though I personally think its the orange thats giving it that flavor. So that probably means that the orange we can get in the store just isnt as potent as what the brewery uses (it would be awesome to find out what brand they use and just get that...but I doubt that will happen). So next time I will probably do 3 tsp of orange and 3 tsp of corriander.

This is still very drinkable and delicious, its just not Blue Moon yet

 

[Wayne1]

I believe I mentioned earlier in the thread that the original recipe used ground, dried Valencia orange peel from The Denver Spice Company. I do not think they sell in small quantities, direct. I used to buy it by the pound. That is also where the ground, dried coriander came from.

I just did a quick search and all I turned up was the Rocky Mountain Spice Company. They offer orange peel granules, but it says from a bitter orange.

Orange Peel Granules

Savory Spice Shop offers California Orange Peel. I have no idea what oranges are used.

 

[BrewNinja1]

Thanks for the info Wayne...all of it! We are well on our way to a small batch of Blue Moon =D I looked around too and couldnt find anything for Denver Spice Co. I even looked in the denver yellow pages. Thats OK...next time I know to use more of the McCormicks to get flavor (I mean semantics aside, does it really matter how much is used as long as it tastes the same?). Next batch Ill try again! =D

 

[kjdoyle]

Thanks for the update BrewNinja...those pints look tasty. I am doing the same thing...I will keep refining the recipe until I get it...Sounds like we might have the coriander dialed in, so that is 1 down 1 to go. What was your hop choice?

 

[ekjohns]

I have heard from people that 2-3 oranges zested with the fine end of a cheese grater gives much more orange than dried so i would rec. starting there. Mine will be kegged tonight and ill take a taste (done with 2 oranges)

 

[Wild Duk]

I used a microplane zester, and got about 2 oz. which was about 5 oranges. With the microplane, it gets nothing but the good, oily zest from the surface, no pith. I still had almost no orange flavor......

I did add it at flameout, which may have something to do with not getting much of the flavor in there......Not really sure.....

 

[ekjohns]

Would it be possible that blue moon now uses orange extract?

 

[BrewNinja1]

I ended up using tettnang hops cause the LHBS was out of mittlefrau. Figured it didnt matter much anyways with a 90 minute boil.

 

[kjdoyle]

anything is worth a try...The first time I made this I used the recipe that called for fresh zest from 2 oranges, a lemon and red grapefruit,as well as 6oz of orange marmalade at flame out. It was a little to orangy for my taste, that's why I was back looking for options. I think my next batch will be 3 tsp of each.

 

[Yoda]

I'll be brewing this over the weekend, can't wait. I picked up some crushed coriander and the McCormicks dried valencia orange today. These particles seem pretty fine/small...do they really need to be strained out? Seems like they might dissolve right into the wort after a couple of minutes, especially the ground coriander.

I suppose if there is "stuff" floating around i'll pour through a strainer, can't hurt. But I was wondering if it's necessary if i'm not using cori seeds and zest.

 

[ekjohns]

its going to be soo crushed that it it prob will go right through the mesh i wouldnt worry about it will more than likely get trapped with all the junk at the bottom. However, i good way to arriate and clear the wort a bit is to run the whole wort through a mesh strainer sitting in a funnel as you pour into the carboy.