Blood Orange Hefeweizen

[CidahMastah]

I just sampled my first batch of this beer and the results are so-so. I used 5 large mandarin oranges as a substitute for the blood orange (out of season). I used the zest and the meat of the orange boiled in a "tea" to sanitize the orange as the recipe suggests.

The recipe doesn't say to boil, it says bring to 160F and then let steep and cool on its own.

I fermented at a higher temp, about 72F, again as the recipe called for.

The recipe said 68F for ferment I believe - though I did a rebrew and am doing 62F for this time around.

Just trying to be fair to the recipe with the above.



Color will be off because mandarin oranges are orange in color where blood oranges are red. The strange sweetness might be your extract having the twang factor (why many people switch to all grain).

I just did a rebrew of this - 12 oranges 10G all grain and am fermenting at 62F. Will post back my results. How old is your brew? I found 4-6 weeks was prime time for mine.

 

[gurrback]

Hm, you may actually be right about the orange "tea". I don't have the recipe in front of me so I'll take your word for it. However, I'm almost positive that they specifically note a slightly higher than average fermentation temperature would be ok for this beer as it would bring out more banana/yeast flavor.

Either way, I guess I'm splitting hairs. I just expected a bit more of a citrusy orange and less brown. And maybe the "tangy" flavour is coming from the LME...

 

[gurrback]

I just did a rebrew of this - 12 oranges 10G all grain and am fermenting at 62F. Will post back my results. How old is your brew? I found 4-6 weeks was prime time for mine.

Still only 1.5 weeks. I know it's young so perhaps the twang will subside.

 

[CidahMastah]

Still only 1.5 weeks. I know it's young so perhaps the twang will subside.

Don't get me wrong I am with you - at 2-3 weeks I thought I had brewed a real dog (BO hefe). See if it turns around at 4-6 weeks like mine did.

I definitely never got the crazy citrus flavor that everyone was claiming. But most folks backed down saying it wasn't that crazy, just a subtle sweet berry flavor more than citrusy. I have a sneaking suspicion that sometimes people hype up their results because they are excited about there brew, or maybe they just don't a have a very discerning palate. No harm meant of course, hell I am excited about my brews too! For example, I did ed worts bavarian hefe at 68 too and it was good, but IMO not great. My buddies came over and we destroyed the first keg in maybe 2 hours - so they obviously thought it was good too. But I still say that there was something off about my results, and I know because I have tried bavarian hefes. I can see the potnential in that recipe, but something was off.

Jamil does 62F for hefe's and pitches the correct yeast volume and says that is the way to get consistent solid results with banana and clove. I think the internet results of high temps banana and low temps clove are up for my own review. i.e. I don't buy that information as fact just yet. Check the "can you brew it" Jamil show on the brewing network - search for dunkelweizen and they discuss hefeweizen brewing techniques.

Everyone claimed you could drink very early and you can. I just found I started reaching for it at ~4 weeks. I will wait at least three weeks before I try my next batch.

 

[gurrback]

I definitely never got the crazy citrus flavor that everyone was claiming. But most folks backed down saying it wasn't that crazy, just a subtle sweet berry flavor more than citrusy. I have a sneaking suspicion that sometimes people hype up their results because they are excited about there brew, or maybe they just don't a have a very discerning palate. No harm meant of course, hell I am excited about my brews too! For example, I did ed worts bavarian hefe at 68 too and it was good, but IMO not great. My buddies came over and we destroyed the first keg in maybe 2 hours - so they obviously thought it was good too. But I still say that there was something off about my results, and I know because I have tried bavarian hefes. I can see the potnential in that recipe, but something was off. .

I consistently experience the same thing. I'm the only one in a group of friends sampling the beer that thinks something is wrong. Everyone else is saying "oh this is great!" and I'm stuck thinkin "hm, what's that flavour? What's that nose? Hmm...this isn't perfect". I should probably relax and just drink the damn thing.

 

[CidahMastah]

I consistently experience the same thing. I'm the only one in a group of friends sampling the beer that thinks something is wrong. Everyone else is saying "oh this is great!" and I'm stuck thinkin "hm, what's that flavour? What's that nose? Hmm...this isn't perfect". I should probably relax and just drink the damn thing.

Maybe But maybe that nagging voice that will, hopefully, push us to make the recipe fantastic by all standards and to all tasters. If not we will be eternally, though on a minuscule level, disappointed

I think a lot of this has to do with the few gents with exceptional palates (supertasters). Since a supertaster is the minority, there isn't any question why we would feel like the odd guy out.

Or we are just screw ups that can't brew this right!

EDIT:
checked on my "navel orange" hefe (BO out of season): right at 62F, so this should be a good test for the lower ferment.

 

[MTB]

checked on my "navel orange" hefe (BO out of season): right at 62F, so this should be a good test for the lower ferment.

How is the krausen on yours? I brewed mine on Monday and this is the first time I ferment at the low end. Fermentation started 10 hours after pitching, but the krausen never got too serious. It's like an inch high and doesn't look like it's going any higher

 

[CidahMastah]

How is the krausen on yours? I brewed mine on Monday and this is the first time I ferment at the low end. Fermentation started 10 hours after pitching, but the krausen never got too serious. It's like an inch high and doesn't look like it's going any higher

Same with mine. Well sorta - mine is about 10.5G in a 15g glass fermenter - but the krausen maybe got up to about 2-2.5 ish inches or so max so far. I mention the larger fermenter for reference if you are using carboys.

However for the first couple days it was low, like an inch. Yours might pop up in hte next day or so. I did notice it had bumped up to 64F yesterday, so i am combating that. I figure the krausen is peaking right about now. Not an overly boisterous ferment.

 

[CidahMastah]

a few pictures of the my results towards the end of hte keg

 

[RedGuitar]

It's possible that I missed this in the 50 pages of this thread, but here's my question:

I can't find blood oranges at this time of year. I read several posts where people substituted clementines or naval oranges, but these are a lot sweeter than blood oranges and lack that tartness. Any opinions on 1 red grapefruit with 4 naval oranges?

 

[CidahMastah]

It's possible that I missed this in the 50 pages of this thread, but here's my question:

I can't find blood oranges at this time of year. I read several posts where people substituted clementines or naval oranges, but these are a lot sweeter than blood oranges and lack that tartness. Any opinions on 1 red grapefruit with 4 naval oranges?

Blood oranges that I have had aren't tart at all, in fact I would say they are sweeter than a typical orange in my experience. You get the tartness/bitter from the zesting (from either orange).

That said, you could certainly bring grapefruit to the party (I almost considered doing that as well). I would go with ruby red, but I would be a little hesitant to zest them. The zest on grapefruit is very very bitter. Go easy on the GF zest or just stick to using the orange zest. (IMO)

Oh yeah check out some pictures I put up of the BOH - posted them to the wrong link and Yooper tossed them over here - see post 519

 

[MDRex]

Any opinions on doing this with only grapefruit, or some mix of GF and blood orange? I'd really like to get something that is more tart/sour tasting.

 

[Acoma]

I don't know about the grapefruit. I would recommend doing it the blood orange way first because it is great. I made this a few months back and only have a few bottles left and let me tell you they are better and better. This was one awesome beer. I'm going to do it again but switch the yeast up for more of the banana/clove finish.

 

[CidahMastah]

Any opinions on doing this with only grapefruit, or some mix of GF and blood orange? I'd really like to get something that is more tart/sour tasting.

For my palate I am not sure that sour is what I would want with this brew. Since this has the later hop addition and there is an aromatic spicy nuance I think the sour wouldn't be complimentary. For edworts bavarian hefe I think the slight sour could be in line with what you are looking for.

Honestly, I doubt using all grapefruit zest would make it sour, I think it would make it bitter. Not sure you can get this sour nuance you want by this addition.

Have you considered doing an acid rest? That would help with that. Not sure what your water PH is, but I know Kaiser says he likes to do an acid rest on the mash on his hefe's because he likes the pleasant sour note it gives at the finish, almost citrusy.

 

[MDRex]

Thanks. I am def going to do this with the blood orange too. I've just been wanting to do some sort of strong grapefruit beer, haven't decided on the base yet tho.

 

[CidahMastah]

Thanks. I am def going to do this with the blood orange too. I've just been wanting to do some sort of strong grapefruit beer, haven't decided on the base yet tho.

You could always adjust the hop schedule and only do one 60 minute addition for bittering and try with you grapefruit instead. Don't let us discourage you too much

as a test though, zest some GF and zest some orange and taste. I think you will see what I mean about bitter. You probably would want to dial down the GF zest to maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of what you would use with oranges. But that is shooting from the hip....

 

[Acoma]

I second that. I do love me some grapefruit. What about splitting the batch? Half with some grapefruit and half with just the blood oranges.

 

[nyer]

I kegged an orange hefe last week and it tastes watery and lemony. I used AH hefe and then the meat and zest of 6 naval oranges. My gravities were spot on and I fermented between 66-68 degrees. I wish I didn't put the orange it now, I think it made it watery and lemony. Hopefully it gets better sitting for awhile.

 

[Ruffins]

I plan on following the AG recipe except that I am going to use a blood orange puree

http://www.perfectpuree.com/index.php/Products/blood-orange-concentrate.html

Anyone what to make a best guess as to how much i should use?

 

[jaredkent]

I tried to brew this this afternoon. Followed the recipe to the tee, except for 2 substituions. I used Dried Wheat Extract instead of Liquid, as I've heard light beers are better off with dried extracts as liquid can sometimes make it too dark. I also replaced the out of season blood oranges with naval oranges.

Ran into a bit of a problem. My OG was 1.026. I was dumb-founded. I can't figure out what went wrong. The only thing I can think of is not stirring the wort after diluting it. I may have gotten a bad reading as the sample was mostly water. I'm hoping that is the case. That OG reading hit me like a ton of bricks. I had no idea what went wrong. Hopefully in 10 days it will correct itself otherwise I'm looking at a watery 2.9% ABV brew.

 

[Sithdad]

If you used all extract and you used the appropriate amount for the batch size you wanted and you topped off to the correct volume your error is most likely due to not stirring the wort before taking the sample.

 

[MTB]

a few pictures of the my results towards the end of hte keg

So I tried mine after being in the bottles for 2 weeks. It tastes good, but I am not tasting much clove or banana. I was hoping for more clove since I fermented at 62. Do you think the oranges masked the clove/banana?

 

[CidahMastah]

So I tried mine after being in the bottles for 2 weeks. It tastes good, but I am not tasting much clove or banana. I was hoping for more clove since I fermented at 62. Do you think the oranges masked the clove/banana?

I think the orange probably does mask it. So still on the fence for the ferment temp?

 

[jaredkent]

If you used all extract and you used the appropriate amount for the batch size you wanted and you topped off to the correct volume your error is most likely due to not stirring the wort before taking the sample.

I used 5.5 lbs of Dried Extract, which was based off some calculations in BeerAlchemy. Boiled with the 4 gallons the recipe calls for. I ended up with 3.25 gallons of wort at the end of the boil. Added 1/2 gallon of water from the oranges. Then topped the wort off to 5 gallons with 1.25 gallons of water.

Seems perfectly fine to me. Based on those numbers BeerAlchemy was giving me a projected OG of 1.049. Not sure where 1.026 came from.

Here's to hoping it was just a stirring issue.

 

[MTB]

I think the orange probably does mask it. So still on the fence for the ferment temp?

Yup, I'm going to try 64 next time. Don't get me wrong tho...this brew is delicious. Just not what I was expecting

 

[baddagger]

well i just finshed brewing up this guy for my 2nd batch... could not get any blood oranges but i pick up some really big navel oranges and used teh zest of all 4 of them.....

i ened up using 5.25lb of dme ..and when i was looking at the brew it seemed really dark.. not the orangy color that other people have shown there to come out as..... is there anythign special that needs to be done to keep teh color lighter and more orange?

oh quick question i dont have a bucket to use as a primary i only got a 6.5gallon glass carboy ..but my question is i put the fruit and zest in a a bag and then lit is sit in 160degree water for 20-25mins.. then i dunked my hands in some five star sanitser wash and then pick up the bags of fruit and had to push them threw the small hole of the carboy.. now will ther be a risk of infection from me having to finger the fruit and zest in the bag threw the carboy hole?

 

[Toecutter]

well i just finshed brewing up this guy for my 2nd batch... could not get any blood oranges but i pick up some really big navel oranges and used teh zest of all 4 of them.....

i ened up using 5.25lb of dme ..and when i was looking at the brew it seemed really dark.. not the orangy color that other people have shown there to come out as..... is there anythign special that needs to be done to keep teh color lighter and more orange?

oh quick question i dont have a bucket to use as a primary i only got a 6.5gallon glass carboy ..but my question is i put the fruit and zest in a a bag and then lit is sit in 160degree water for 20-25mins.. then i dunked my hands in some five star sanitser wash and then pick up the bags of fruit and had to push them threw the small hole of the carboy.. now will ther be a risk of infection from me having to finger the fruit and zest in the bag threw the carboy hole?

here's what i do. in fact i'll be brewing up a batch in a couple of weeks since i still have Blood oranges on the tree.

Boil about a quart of water. turn off the flame. add your zest, peels, juice, etc. to the water.Get a nylon stocking. soak it and your hands with starsan. add the zest mixture into the nylon stocking and tie it off.Then push the filled nylon into your fermenter, and add the water juice mixture. Your set.

 

[Jsmith82]

Brewed again last night but switched up the recipe a bit, I stumbled across a topic where Yooper had posted a German wheat recipe where the wheat outweighed the 2 row a bit and it looked fantastic, I believe the words were "you will believe you are in Munich".. I modified quite a bit and ended up doing the following:

5# Red Wheat
3# Weyermann Pils
Mash @ 153 for 90min
1oz Saaz @ 60
.5oz Tettnang @ 10
8 oranges, fruit and zest
3056 Bavarian Wheat Blend

We were going for a very light orange wheat, I was aiming for 1.042 OG and hit 1.046. Can't wait!!

 

[CidahMastah]

Yup, I'm going to try 64 next time. Don't get me wrong tho...this brew is delicious. Just not what I was expecting

Just a heads up - had similar results to yours, though I think the orange covers it up so this is something I want to try with ed worts hefe. I do get the banana at the finish better than I did at 68F, but cloves are hard to detect. In fairness the late aroma hope addition might be making the cloves less discernible.

I just brewed a dunkel about 7days + ago. I started it at 62-63F for the first 3 days, then brought it up to 68-70F to finish. will be interesting how this turns out.

Funny thing - I served this to friends from an ice cold growler last weekend, the banana REALLY came through nicely, nice sweetish aftertaste like I taste in commercial hefe (Franz, etc.). When beer is "cooler" ice cold it almost mutes hops. So I think the banana at least, might be a bit better than I thought, just the hop schedule mutes the banana.

Was using WL351

 

[gurrback]

I brewed this batch again and used all DME an no LME. I transferred to secondary on top of twice the number of oranges the recipe called for. I did so because the oranges were barely detectable last time. I used the meat of the orange and the zest. Fermented at 66f and it has now been on the oranges in the secondary for a week.

My question is how long should I leave the beer on the oranges? I sampled last night and it's banana overload but no orange flavour. I do however notice a nice orange colour.