Black Powder Firearms

[CreamyGoodness]

No one wants to argue the finer points of Civil War weaponry? Harumpf!

 

[unionrdr]

I think it's too bad the state of Ohio won't let us use black powder cartridge weapons during primitive weapons season for deer. I'd love to use a Spencer carbine or a rolling block Remington.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Honestly, if its not muzzle-loading what is the real difference in the field, other than smoke?

 

[Picker]

I think it's too bad the state of Ohio won't let us use black powder cartridge weapons during primitive weapons season for deer.

You can use them during the regular gun season though, as long as it's a straight wall cartridge.
I personally like it that guns are limited to muzzle loaders during the primitive weapons season.

 

[krackin]

I've been using charcoal burners for nearly 45 years now. I like sidelocks and BP best but then again cap and ball revolvers are great fun.

 

[rodwha]

Union: I've not dealt with a set trigger yet, though I keep eyeing a Great Plains Hunter, but what I read is that the standard trigger is just a better set up when slicked up. I'm not sure it's a big deal, but a single trigger certainly seems easier.

Creamy: What do you have? I'm certainly all ears when it comes to speaking about Civil War arms and such. I'm far from knowledgeable, but I am interested!

One gun that stands out to me as something I feel I ought to own is a Spiller & Burr pistol. I don't care much for a brass frame, but I sure do like the pistol!

I also wonder how it is they copied several pistols (Confederates) without problems (assuming patents).

I must agree with Creamy and Picker that despite a rolling block being primitive it's not what I think was intended as it's not much different than a typical CF gun with smoke. Although there's just nothing that shoots as flat as more modern smokeless stuff in comparison.

I've been thinking I need a recurve mostly for fun in the back, but maybe to try in the field if I find myself good enough. There's just something more rewarding I think in comparison to more modern designs.

I played with recurves in the back of the shop during off times with my old boss, though his bows didn't fit as he's a much bigger guy than I, but still did fairly well. A lot of fun! That was until the string slaps your forearm! Pulled plenty of skin off!

 

[unionrdr]

The set trigger makes the main trigger more sensitive. You touch it & it's gone. No slight (possible) jerk when pulling the trigger. And the old cartridge black powder guns can't be centerfire cartridges, just rimfire as I understand it? I just thought they'd be cool to use...certainly a lot simpler. Ever try to push a saboted bullet down the muzzle? I just about need a mallet to get it started! A saboted 45 in my 50 with 100 grains of 3FG is equal to a 30-06 in muzzle velocity. Bullet drop of 2-3" at 300 yards they claim. Does shoot pretty straight & has great balance for a TC Hawken repop.

 

[rodwha]

I have to ask about the saboted .45 cal bullet equaling 30-06 velocity. Looking at Hodgson's site showing a 100 grn charge of 3F Triple 7 and a 250 grn .45 cal SST barely breaks 1900 fps whereas a typical 180 grn bullet from a 30-06 is doing 2700 fps.

I look at a muzzleloader as a caseless .444 Marlin or 45-70 Gov't for the most part. It could also be looked at as a 44 mag through a carbine I suppose with hot loads (assuming your load isn't anemic).

 

[unionrdr]

I'm fairly sure about the 100 grains. I could be off a bit though. But I read it & can't remember where, as it's been quite a while. I was using 3FG Pyrodex. The bullet was a jacketed hollow point that I think was 200 grains/grams.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Union: I've not dealt with a set trigger yet, though I keep eyeing a Great Plains Hunter, but what I read is that the standard trigger is just a better set up when slicked up. I'm not sure it's a big deal, but a single trigger certainly seems easier.

Creamy: What do you have? I'm certainly all ears when it comes to speaking about Civil War arms and such. I'm far from knowledgeable, but I am interested!

One gun that stands out to me as something I feel I ought to own is a Spiller & Burr pistol. I don't care much for a brass frame, but I sure do like the pistol!

I also wonder how it is they copied several pistols (Confederates) without problems (assuming patents).

I must agree with Creamy and Picker that despite a rolling block being primitive it's not what I think was intended as it's not much different than a typical CF gun with smoke. Although there's just nothing that shoots as flat as more modern smokeless stuff in comparison.

I've been thinking I need a recurve mostly for fun in the back, but maybe to try in the field if I find myself good enough. There's just something more rewarding I think in comparison to more modern designs.

I played with recurves in the back of the shop during off times with my old boss, though his bows didn't fit as he's a much bigger guy than I, but still did fairly well. A lot of fun! That was until the string slaps your forearm! Pulled plenty of skin off!

Our buddies the French and British were happy to sell the confederacy surplus arms at a meager profit throughout the war, and there were some gunworks in operation throughout the south (mostly Virginia if memory serves.) You see a wide array of weapon makes and models from both sides of the conflict but far wider from the Confederacy. Its been theorized (appropriately in my humble opinion) that had the War Department decided to outfit infantry volunteers with a breechloading weapon, even the single-shot Sharps carbine that was readily available at the time, the war would have ended in under a year.

The tactics of the time (both Casey's and Hardy's) stressed rapid fire and reloading, but the War Department feared that repeating rifles such as the Colt Revolving Rifle, Spencer carbine, Henry rifle etc. would waste ammunition. :smack:

Whilest reasonably accurate and having enough punch to stop a moose, the .58 Springfield and the .577 Enfield were both a chore to load and fire at the prescribed rate of 3 shots a minute. I've done it... it basically means the safest man on the battlefield is the one you are intending to hit.

I've owned repros of both the Springfield and Enfield.

 

[rodwha]

I've made paper cartridges for my revolvers using cigarette papers, and it worked rather well, though I did often find small shards of paper left behind. I did let me be, eventually, to see if they'd cause problems but after 3 cylinders all was well. I do believe they'd be a problem eventually.

I'm not sure if I'd want to need to make cartridges to shoot it though.

I also like that all of my arms use Remington #10's.

I might have to get one just for the history.

 

[rodwha]

Pyrodex only gives ~1770 fps with the same bullet and 100 grns of P (3F).

Could it have been 150 grns such as with the "magnum" inlines that can use three 50 grn pellets? I just don't see how it could come close to 2700 fps or more.

 

[Airplanedoc]

Biggest headache I have with black powder is trying to find it. It is a bit over 100 miles round trip, to my nearest supplier. I generally just buy 6-8 lbs at a time and luckily it last me a long time.

 

[rodwha]

100 miles! Yikes!

Why don't you bite the bullet and order online? You can buy from Grafs or Powderinc.

I couldn't find Swiss or Olde Eynsford when I lives in San Antonio so I had no choice. I could find Triple 7, but at times they were out of 3F. I bought from BassPro and found that if I ordered 3 lbs, which cost much less, I'd about break even with shipping and the HAZMAT fee. Black powder is so much cheaper though.

Percussion caps were impossible to find as well and so I often bought them online from BassPro or Cabelas in a group of 10.

This expenses, as well as my brewing ingredients is a good reason to make what you can such as projectiles, patches, wads, lube, etc.

I'd like to try growing hops but with the AA's being unknown and variable I'm not sure it's worth the effort except for dry hopping maybe.

Now I just need to learn gunsmithing!

 

[Airplanedoc]

100 miles! Yikes!

Why don't you bite the bullet and order online? You can buy from Grafs or Powderinc.

I couldn't find Swiss or Olde Eynsford when I lives in San Antonio so I had no choice. I could find Triple 7, but at times they were out of 3F. I bought from BassPro and found that if I ordered 3 lbs, which cost much less, I'd about break even with shipping and the HAZMAT fee. Black powder is so much cheaper though.

Percussion caps were impossible to find as well and so I often bought them online from BassPro or Cabelas in a group of 10.

This expenses, as well as my brewing ingredients is a good reason to make what you can such as projectiles, patches, wads, lube, etc.

I'd like to try growing hops but with the AA's being unknown and variable I'm not sure it's worth the effort except for dry hopping maybe.

Now I just need to learn gunsmithing!

There is a HBS on the way, and one of my dads cardiologists is near there, so its not like getting black powder is the only reason I head that direction, I can generally make a quick side trip to get it. It just sucks when I am out, and "have" to go get black powder.