BJCP Certified Judge in MA

[kaz4121]

I am hoping to connect with a BJCP certified judge in Massachusetts that I could ship/drop off beer for review on a fairly frequent basis (once or twice per month). Not sure if anyone would be interested, but I would just hope for a bit constructive feedback than I've been getting from recent competitions.

I am really trying to focus on "perfecting" a handful of recipes and want to brew more regularly and get feedback more regularly. One limiting factor for me in MA is the infrequent NE BJCP competitions. And even for those I have entered recently, the feedback has been sparse, maybe a sentence or two at most.

So what do you think? Any BJCP want some free beer every month?

 

[jdauria]

Sure some BJCP judge from MA will get back to you, but you could also go to the BJCP site and email them for a list of judges from MA. Another option to have your beer critiqued is for a local homebrew club. Where are you in MA?

My assumption is you are trying to avoid shipping costs to out of state/New England comps, since you would most likely also get only a few lines of comments anyway. Just got a beer back myself from first round of NHC and they used the "summary" judging sheets which have a bunch of check-boxes, therefore feedback was only 3-4 lines on the sheets. (Beer also only scored a 24, after taking 2nd place with a 37.5 in RI, so go figure!).

 

[biereblanche]

If you feel like shipping to CO, I'm a well experienced judge.

 

[kaz4121]

Sure some BJCP judge from MA will get back to you, but you could also go to the BJCP site and email them for a list of judges from MA. Another option to have your beer critiqued is for a local homebrew club. Where are you in MA?

My assumption is you are trying to avoid shipping costs to out of state/New England comps, since you would most likely also get only a few lines of comments anyway. Just got a beer back myself from first round of NHC and they used the "summary" judging sheets which have a bunch of check-boxes, therefore feedback was only 3-4 lines on the sheets. (Beer also only scored a 24, after taking 2nd place with a 37.5 in RI, so go figure!).

That's a good point, I may try that if I don't get many responses.

Shipping is a concern but I would be willing to pay for shipping more frequently if the comments I got back were more constructive. I understand that the point of the comps is not to give everyone feedback on how to improve their beer, but that is kind of what I am looking for. And a BJCP judge would know WAY better than me. Even after four years of brewing, my pallet is just not refined enough to be objective when tasting my own beers.

The NHC check boxes are helpful, but not exactly what I am looking for.

 

[kaz4121]

If you feel like shipping to CO, I'm a well experienced judge.

Awesome! I really would appreciate it.

Ideally I am looking for someone closer to me to help cut down costs but would love to take up your offer if I don't hear from anyone more local in the next few days. Don't mean to be picky, especially since you are being so generous.

I have a 100% Brett, Golden Ale with blueberries & blackberries, and Oatmeal stout aged in bourbon with cacao nibs and kona coffee. These three would be ready to go in about a week. In about a month I will have an IPA, and a few different RIS: regular, bourbon barrel + cacao, and bourbon barrel + kona coffee.

 

[michaeltrego]

I am hoping to connect with a BJCP certified judge in Massachusetts ...

Join a local club like the Worts and bring your brew to a meeting. I am sure some of the judges and experienced brewers in the club will give you worthwhile feedback.

 

[kaz4121]

Join a local club like the Worts and bring your brew to a meeting. I am sure some of the judges and experienced brewers in the club will give you worthwhile feedback.

I'd love to join a local club but the closest one is about 1.5 hours RT from me at this point. With work full time and school part time, I just don't have the time to swing that at this point.

I am looking to move in the next year though and should be close enough to the Wizards or Mid-Mass Malt Maltster's to make it worth while.

 

[jdauria]

I'd love to join a local club but the closest one is about 1.5 hours RT from me at this point. With work full time and school part time, I just don't have the time to swing that at this point.

I am looking to move in the next year though and should be close enough to the Wizards or Mid-Mass Malt Maltster's to make it worth while.

Where are you in MA? I am a member of the B3 (Better Beer Brewers) club in Weymouth. We are kind of in transition now due to babies, moves, etc; and are down to 4-5 steady members from 12-15. We try to meet monthly and tend to be more of a "tasting" club then a brewing club, though we did have some meetings before the winter where we brewed during the meeting. Anyway, if you are South Shore and want some other homebrewers to taste your beer, send me a PM and I will set you up with the guy who runs it.

By the way, we have a member who spends winters in California, and he will be back soon and he is a BJCP judge.

 

[Darwin18]

If you're up for it, I'd be willing to evaluate your beer. I'm BJCP certified but I am in North Carolina. Are you looking for filled out score sheet for each beer and an assigned "score" relative to each entry?

 

[day_trippr]

I am hoping to connect with a BJCP certified judge in Massachusetts that I could ship/drop off beer for review on a fairly frequent basis (once or twice per month). Not sure if anyone would be interested, but I would just hope for a bit constructive feedback than I've been getting from recent competitions.

I am really trying to focus on "perfecting" a handful of recipes and want to brew more regularly and get feedback more regularly. One limiting factor for me in MA is the infrequent NE BJCP competitions. And even for those I have entered recently, the feedback has been sparse, maybe a sentence or two at most.

So what do you think? Any BJCP want some free beer every month?

http://www.doctorbeer.com

Cheers!

 

[kaz4121]

Where are you in MA? I am a member of the B3 (Better Beer Brewers) club in Weymouth. We are kind of in transition now due to babies, moves, etc; and are down to 4-5 steady members from 12-15. We try to meet monthly and tend to be more of a "tasting" club then a brewing club, though we did have some meetings before the winter where we brewed during the meeting. Anyway, if you are South Shore and want some other homebrewers to taste your beer, send me a PM and I will set you up with the guy who runs it.

By the way, we have a member who spends winters in California, and he will be back soon and he is a BJCP judge.

I'm in Sturbridge. I wouldn't mind other homebrewers feedback (since most are very knowledgable) but am really interested in a BJCP judge if possible.

If I were closer I would swing by but the South Shore is too far of a haul for me. This does sound like it could be a good option since you are fairly close though.

 

[kaz4121]

If you're up for it, I'd be willing to evaluate your beer. I'm BJCP certified but I am in North Carolina. Are you looking for filled out score sheet for each beer and an assigned "score" relative to each entry?

Yes and no. I mean, I want objective feedback but also input on ways to improve my beer. I know that isn't directly what a BJCP is supposed to do, which is why I am searching for someone outside of registered competitions.

For example, on a recent scoresheet for a 14C I received the following feedback for Flavor (13/20):

"very good hop forward flavors - bitter, citrusy, fairly understated clean malt"

That is objective feedback but it doesn't necessarily tell me what I am missing or exactly why I only got 13 out of 20 points.

So I guess I am looking for a score sheet but with more detail - not only on what you are tasting in my beer, but what is missing to make closer to a 20/20.

 

[Darwin18]

I think I understand what you mean. My suggestion would be to pickup a few of the commercial examples for a particular style that the BJCP guidelines list. For example, 14C lists Pliny the Elder, Dogfish 90, etc and taste it against your beer. The commercial examples are what we use to "calibrate" when judging.

I'm more than willing to evaluate your beer, fill out a score sheet, and try to provide objective feedback but you have to remember that judges at competitions don't have insight to your brewing processes or recipes.

 

[jdauria]

I think I understand what you mean. My suggestion would be to pickup a few of the commercial examples for a particular style that the BJCP guidelines list. For example, 14C lists Pliny the Elder, Dogfish 90, etc and taste it against your beer. The commercial examples are what we use to "calibrate" when judging.

Ah, if only we could get Pliny in MA!

Kaz, I added you to my contact list, so next time there is a meeting, I will let you know, though it is a hike from Sturbridge!

Don't know if you have checked this out, but here is a list of Mass clubs so you can see if there is one closer. http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/community/clubs/find-a-homebrew-club/ and Connecticut ones since you may be close to one of them too, http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/community/clubs/find-a-homebrew-club/

 

[Darwin18]

Can't get it either in NC, but perhaps the OP could arrange a bottle trade with someone out west?

Like the looks of that heady clone in your sig!

 

[kaz4121]

I think I understand what you mean. My suggestion would be to pickup a few of the commercial examples for a particular style that the BJCP guidelines list. For example, 14C lists Pliny the Elder, Dogfish 90, etc and taste it against your beer. The commercial examples are what we use to "calibrate" when judging.

I'm more than willing to evaluate your beer, fill out a score sheet, and try to provide objective feedback but you have to remember that judges at competitions don't have insight to your brewing processes or recipes.

This is a good point. I understand that specific feedback on how to improve isn't even really in the scope of what they are supposed to be providing per se, more objective scoring on how close to the "perfect" example it can be.

My issue is that with "calibration" examples for 14C of Pliny and 90 Minute - that provides such a huge variability on what I can aim for. Those beers are extremely different, to me anyway. Eventually I'd like to try and become a BJCP judge, but it won't be for several years.

From my comment on the recent 14C judging ("very good hop forward flavors - bitter, citrusy, fairly understated clean malt")- if I didn't tell you what my score was for flavor would you have been able to guess it was only a 13? I wish it said something like "..very good hop forward flavors - bitter, citrusy, fairly understated clean malt, but somewhat one dimensional. Consider additional hop varieties for enhance flavor, or additional flavor additions to create more complexity..."

I know the above probably doesn't really even make sense, but that's kind of my frustration with recent feedback and why I would like to seek out a local judge for more detailed insight if possible.

At the end of the day I want to brew beers that taste good to me and to qualified tasting judges.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[biereblanche]

The kind of feedback in your example isn't outside the BJCP domain, I think it's more that many judges might not know what to suggest (experience), may not be trained or focused on that level of feedback, and there's a bit of a time crunch/ fatigue in competition.

Feedback might be the hardest aspect of judging to learn (which fits the exams I've graded ). I think a lot of judges focus on "what's the biggest issues here and what solves that," looking for technical and style flaws and having a bit of trouble looking at the beer as a whole. Tasting exam prep I think "encourages" that a bit. Hopefully there were some suggestions for you in the overall impression section, but it's true that judges can have a hard time supporting their scores, like you said why a 13 and not a 20? Helping entrants should be a priority over getting the numbers down.

Your example is pretty simple, but it's helpful feedback to me (as a judge). I'm trying to improve as a judge (not rank-wise), which to me primarily means figuring out how to be most helpful and fair to entrants.

 

[jdauria]

Like the looks of that heady clone in your sig!

Thanks! It was the BYO magazine recipe from a few months ago. Color and ABV were close to Heady, but not the flavor. Was still a good DIPA, but just short of that Heady wow factor.

 

[jeffjm]

Yes and no. I mean, I want objective feedback but also input on ways to improve my beer. I know that isn't directly what a BJCP is supposed to do, which is why I am searching for someone outside of registered competitions.

For example, on a recent scoresheet for a 14C I received the following feedback for Flavor (13/20):

"very good hop forward flavors - bitter, citrusy, fairly understated clean malt"

That is objective feedback but it doesn't necessarily tell me what I am missing or exactly why I only got 13 out of 20 points.

So I guess I am looking for a score sheet but with more detail - not only on what you are tasting in my beer, but what is missing to make closer to a 20/20.

I've been preparing for a re-take of the tasting exam, and one thing I've learned is that describing a beer adequately is a complex undertaking. Really detailed feedback would include intensity of bitterness, intensity and character of hop flavor, intensity and character of malt, intensity and type of any fermentation characteristics (including esters and off-flavors such as acetaldehyde, fusels, diacetyl, etc.), intensity and character of afteraste, intensity and character off miscellaneous off flavors (DMS, phenols, sourness, oxidation, etc) and character of the beer's finish. And that's just in the flavor section of the scoresheet. Rarely do I ever see a scoresheet come back to me with that amount of information. That's to be expected, because someone who consistently fills out scoresheets (accurately) with that level of detail during the tasting exam is probably going receive a score near or at master level.

Please note that I am NOT criticizing whoever wrote that description - I'm sure I've written something similar myself. It's hard to perceive that amount of detail in a short time, and then document it. It's even harder when you are on your eighth sample of IIPA. Without that level of detail, though, there's always room for the question you asked - why a 13 and not a 20? Where is improvement needed?

I suspect that your quest for a local judge will end up benefitting both of you. Good luck!

 

[kaz4121]

I've been preparing for a re-take of the tasting exam, and one thing I've learned is that describing a beer adequately is a complex undertaking. Really detailed feedback would include intensity of bitterness, intensity and character of hop flavor, intensity and character of malt, intensity and type of any fermentation characteristics (including esters and off-flavors such as acetaldehyde, fusels, diacetyl, etc.), intensity and character of afteraste, intensity and character off miscellaneous off flavors (DMS, phenols, sourness, oxidation, etc) and character of the beer's finish. And that's just in the flavor section of the scoresheet. Rarely do I ever see a scoresheet come back to me with that amount of information. That's to be expected, because someone who consistently fills out scoresheets (accurately) with that level of detail during the tasting exam is probably going receive a score near or at master level.

Please note that I am NOT criticizing whoever wrote that description - I'm sure I've written something similar myself. It's hard to perceive that amount of detail in a short time, and then document it. It's even harder when you are on your eighth sample of IIPA. Without that level of detail, though, there's always room for the question you asked - why a 13 and not a 20? Where is improvement needed?

I suspect that your quest for a local judge will end up benefitting both of you. Good luck!

Exactly - I completely understand the time and fatigue element to judging. That's why I am trying to reach out to find someone local that would be willing to provide the additional detail I am looking for. I hope this thread doesn't come off as a rip on BJCP judges, that wasn't my intent.

 

[jeffjm]

No, it doesn't come across that way at all. If anything, you've raised a good point about what constitutes helpful information.

 

[Falcon3]

... the closest one is about 1.5 hours RT from me at this point.

Honestly this isn't that far. Meetings are usually once a month, and you will be able to get feedback from multiple people, probably multiple BJCP judges. This will pay off way more than talking to a single other person. Think of it as a vacation night once a month- 1.5 hrs driving plus 2 hrs hanging out/making friends/enjoying beer/getting excellent feedback is likely a better use of your time than a lot of the activities all of us do all the time.....(TV, drinking at the bar, TV, movies, TV, napping, Facebook, TV, etc....)

 

[kaz4121]

Honestly this isn't that far. Meetings are usually once a month, and you will be able to get feedback from multiple people, probably multiple BJCP judges. This will pay off way more than talking to a single other person. Think of it as a vacation night once a month- 1.5 hrs driving plus 2 hrs hanging out/making friends/enjoying beer/getting excellent feedback is likely a better use of your time than a lot of the activities all of us do all the time.....(TV, drinking at the bar, TV, movies, TV, napping, Facebook, TV, etc....)

Trust me, I'd love to make it out there I just don't have the time right now. I work full-time and am getting my Master's part-time so I currently don't have many free nights during the week. And when I do, I'm usually just looking for a night off.