Big starter, little flask

[BackAlley]

Hi,

Getting ready to do my first lager and I'd like to get a starter with at least 400b cells. Trouble is, while do have a stir plate, I use a 2l flask. Therefore, I'm thinking of a two stage starter. To complicate it a little more, my time constraints are such that I can't begin the starter until Sunday mid-day and will be brewing on a Wednesday evening. I was thinking of doing a two stage starter and wanted to bounce my plan off you.

Starting with a smack pack of 2112, I was planning on doing a 1l starter on Sunday midday and let that run until Monday night. According to Beersmith, that should get me to 240b cells. I was going to cool it down overnight in the fridge to settle out the yeast cake. Tuesday morning I would decant, bring it up to room temp and add 1.75l of wort and let that run on the stirrer until Wed evening. That's supposed to get me to 450b cells.

Comments?

 

[Gduck]

Sounds like a solid plan to me. I used to do similar things when all I had was my 2L flask and all my fermentations took off. Not having lab equipment couldn't say what kind of cell count it was other than what calculators estimate. But hey, solid fermentation is solid fermentation.

 

[RoundKid]

I wouldn't trust beersmith's numbers. According to BrewersFriend (and yeastcalc would say the same thing) a 2L starter at 1.036 will get you 388 cells. That would be a 1.5M/ml/p pitch rate on a 5.5gal 1.050 lager, which would be plenty. If you did your second step, you would be at 547 cells or 2.12M/ml/p at 5.5g and 1.050

In other words, one step would be fine for a small lager and two steps for anything above 1.050.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[Gduck]

I wouldn't trust beersmith's numbers. According to BrewersFriend (and yeastcalc would say the same thing) a 2L starter at 1.036 will get you 388 cells. That would be a 1.5M/ml/p pitch rate on a 5.5gal 1.050 lager, which would be plenty. If you did your second step, you would be at 547 cells or 2.12M/ml/p at 5.5g and 1.050

This is why I only use calc's as a general guideline and not as fact. They are just formulas that take estimates based on average scenarios. Without breaking out the microscope and counting yeast cells all they can do is give you a best guess (although one based on a math formula). That said there seems to be a few different formulas floating around. I tend to use them as a jumping off point, and then from there use my own observations to guide my pitch size on my beers.

 

[BackAlley]

I wouldn't trust beersmith's numbers. According to BrewersFriend (and yeastcalc would say the same thing) a 2L starter at 1.036 will get you 388 cells. That would be a 1.5M/ml/p pitch rate on a 5.5gal 1.050 lager, which would be plenty. If you did your second step, you would be at 547 cells or 2.12M/ml/p at 5.5g and 1.050

In other words, one step would be fine for a small lager and two steps for anything above 1.050.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

Beersmith and BrewersFriend give the same actually. You put a 2l starter and I put a 1l starter as my first step, hence the difference in the numbers. Looking at my flask I didn't feel good about trying to cram 2l into it. I do agree though that I can probably get away with one step looking at it again.

 

[rjthomas21]

I would be careful decanting with only 12-16 hours in the fridge, I don't know if you are going to get all (or most) of the yeast to settle out in that short of a time period. I usually crash my starters for 2 days before decanting and I see a significant difference in clarity after 24 vs 48 hours.