BIG IRS recipe question

[Matteo57]

I am planning on brewing a big oaked bourbon IRS soon. I had a question for whoever cares to weigh in on two recipes I'm looking at. I probably will tweak them a bit anyways, but any thoughts on the following?

I saw this one (and haven't adjusted it yet through beersmith to fit with my 10g batch)
205.0 lb (75.9%) Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt; Thomas Fawcett
18.0 lb (6.7%) Munich TYPE I; Weyermann
14.0 lb (5.2%) Chocolate Malt; Simpsons
14.0 lb (5.2%) Roasted Barley; Briess
12.0 lb (4.4%) Caramel Malt 60L; Briess
7.0 lb (2.6%) Carafa Special® TYPE III; Weyermann
10.0 oz (33.3%) Magnum (10.0%) - added during boil, boiled 75 min
4.0 oz (13.3%) Magnum (14.5%) - added during boil, boiled 75 min
8 oz (26.7%) Willamette (4.9%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
8 oz (26.7%) Willamette (4.9%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min

The other one I saw and tweaked a bit:
43lbs pale 2 row (might do 20ish lbs of pale and then sub in some DME or something so I don't have to do as much grains and easier to hit the gravity I want)
24lbs munich
3.5lb chocolate malt
4lbs roasted barley
2.75lb crystal 60L
1.25lb de-bittered black malt
4.5oz warrior @60 13.7%
3oz EKG 5.% at 15m
maybe a small EKG at 5m

I'm shooting for around a 12-14% beer. I want to try and hit something more along the lines of 1.025ish if I can but these are coming in around 1.030-1.040 as F.G. any suggestions on getting them lower while keeping the flavor profile? I will be using 007 English Dry Yeast from a previous APA yeast cake I am brewing Friday.

I'm using a 100qt cooler for the Mash Tun and will probably boil the wort for about 2-2.5 hours. I want a big mouthfeel but I don't want it super cloying either. probably mash around 156...

Any suggestions on these recipes and thoughts on the ingredients? The first recipe with the MO base, I would probably do a half/half of 2-row and MO as I am not a fan of all MO base usually.

Thanks for any suggestions you might have!

Much appreciated!

 

[Clanchief]

Just my opinion, but use the grains from the second, and the hops from the first, and I think you'll make a better beer. For an RIS, to me Magnum is the king hop.

 

[Matteo57]

What about getting a drier finish?

 

[Clanchief]

When I go for a drier finish, I tend to add candi sugar, as I have found it gives that while not bringing much else other than increasing the gravity and possibly color if you get the amber or dark (I usually do clear). I have never made it more than 5% of my grain bill though.

 

[Seedly]

Maybe its just me, but for all IRS issues I go to a licensed accountant...

But to get serious...if you want to dry out the beer, you need to reduce the amount of complex sugars that they yeast cant break down. I would consider dropping your mash temp by 5-10 deg.

You are having to trade off between mouth feel and dryness to a degree. The other option is to amp up the bittering hops a bit more to help compensate for the sweetness.

However for that second recipe...I am having a little trouble parsing the whole thing. Youve got 78.5 lbs of grain in a 10gal batch. Even at 60% efficiency, your still at a OG of 1.165 and FG of 1.045 and 20.26% ABV (using the Daniels formula, which works better for high alcohol beers since it accounts for alcohol having a lower SG than water).

Am I reading that right? 43lbs of 2-row and 24lbs of Munich?

 

[Matteo57]

I am not at home to check with my beertools software but on my phone i was messing around and at 60% it comes out to 14% on my ibrewmaster software... maybe it's off.
Will have to double check when I get home to be sure... but it does seem like it should be higher.
Maybe I can drop some of the complex sugars and replace with some brown sugar or something, maybe add some oats and mash at a lower temp so the oats will help create more mouthfeel and the lower mash temp will dry out the beer more.
Any thoughts on that?

 

[inhousebrew]

But to get serious...if you want to dry out the beer, you need to reduce the amount of complex sugars that they yeast cant break down. I would consider dropping your mash temp by 5-10 deg.

It seems counter intuitive when making a RIS with a big mouthfeel to mash low but there will be plenty of leftover complex sugars for the mouthfeel. If you mash at 1.056 you're going to end up with a gooey mess in the end. I'd go around 148-150* for at least an hour if you're planning a 13% beer. If it somehow drops way to low you can always dump in some lactose or something at the end to sweeten it up a bit but once fermentation stops it's a B_____ to get it going again.

 

[humann_brewing]

It seems counter intuitive when making a RIS with a big mouthfeel to mash low but there will be plenty of leftover complex sugars for the mouthfeel. If you mash at 1.056 you're going to end up with a gooey mess in the end. I'd go around 148-150* for at least an hour if you're planning a 13% beer. If it somehow drops way to low you can always dump in some lactose or something at the end to sweeten it up a bit but once fermentation stops it's a B_____ to get it going again.

Yes, big beers always mash super low, I mean even if you hit 1.020 which would be hard to do with say WLP007 starting at say 1.120 that is still plenty sweet, for me at least.

I have a barleywine going right now I am hoping bottoms out around the 1.020 mark with a starting OG of 1.116 but I used about 9% sugar and about 5% crystals and mashed really low