BIAB - For amateurs?

[doug293cz]

I suspect @doug293cz was having a bit of sport

Yes indeed. OP of this thread has two other recent threads (link, link) discussing the potential for botulism in home brewed beer. Kind of an inside joke for those that knew about the other threads. I apologize for partially derailing this thread.

I will say that I found the (deleted) off-topic responses amusing. One of my superpowers as a mod is being able to look at posts that have been deleted, but there is no longer an option to "Like" them.

And, that's enough on this little thread diversion. Let's keep it on topic from here.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

This just in. An ameteur brewer just took the NJ Homebrewer of the Year title for the 3rd time. One of the clutching aspect of which was scoring a 1st place in 3 different competitions and subsequent 3rd place best of shows in all three with a Munich Dunkel lager. Very ameteur but a good beer.

 

[MaxStout]

Lots of empirical info that debunks the "_______ type of brewing is inferior." I've seen many comps with extract brew winners. Just a few years ago the AHA homebrewer of the year was an extract brewer.

 

[rlrohan]

The people that say BIAB is for amateurs are just jealous that we can make as good or better beer with less cost and equipment than the three vessel setups. My beer got so much better when I went from extract to all grain using BIAB. I don’t think I’ll do anything differently.

 

[InspectorJon]

BIAB beer is just as good as any other beer!


Says the guy that has never done it any other way (me).

It is really not practical for professionals due to volume constraints. So amateur? Yes. There are a few odd exceptions to professionals not doing it but they are quite rare.

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

I would argue that a mash filter is the professional brewer equivalent to squeezing wort out of a homebrew fabric filter bag.

 

[doug293cz]

I would argue that a mash filter is the professional brewer equivalent to squeezing wort out of a homebrew fabric filter bag.

Although an industrial filter press can do a much better job of wringing wort out of the grain than a home brewer can by squeezing a bag. With a filter press you can get better lauter efficiency with no-sparge than you can with a good fly sparge.

Brew on

 

[bwible]

Although an industrial filter press can do a much better job of wringing wort out of the grain than a home brewer can by squeezing a bag. With a filter press you can get better lauter efficiency with no-sparge than you can with a good fly sparge.

Brew on

I never heard of anybody pressing mash in a 3v system. Gravity drains it out. We’ve been taught from day 1 not to oversparge or overdraw the mash - ph, tannins, other issues. Never heard of this, don’t know why anybody would do it. Again, no knock on BIAB.

 

[doug293cz]

I never heard of anybody pressing mash in a 3v system. Gravity drains it out. We’ve been taught from day 1 not to oversparge or overdraw the mash - ph, tannins, other issues. Never heard of this, don’t know why anybody would do it. Again, no knock on BIAB.

Take a look at this video:



You can find more here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brewery+mash+press

The idea that squeezing the grain extracts tannins is an old wives tale. Oversparging is a real thing that will extract tannins and silicates if the concentration of the wort (SG) gets too low. Tannin extraction is accelerated at pHs higher than about 6, and water temperatures above about 170°F.

Brew on

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

Although an industrial filter press can do a much better job of wringing wort out of the grain than a home brewer can by squeezing a bag. With a filter press you can get better lauter efficiency with no-sparge than you can with a good fly sparge.

Brew on

There are some pretty determined homebewers that will try to get close to that efficiency by squeezing the brew bag.

I'm sure there is someone out there that uses a mechanical press in their garage to get every last drop of sweet wort from the grain.

 

[balrog]

Take a look at this video:



You can find more here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brewery+mash+press

The idea that squeezing the grain extracts tannins is an old wives tale. Oversparging is a real thing that will extract tannins and silicates if the concentration of the wort (SG) gets too low. Tannin extraction is accelerated at pHs higher than about 6, and water temperatures above about 170°F.

Brew on

Discovering Alaskan Amber on an Inside Passage cruise vacation is what got me into brewing.
Sigh.

 

[flipster]

This turned into a very interesting discussion!

It took me a while until I realised, that BIAB existed (although it was kinda mentioned in the book I started homebrewing with), and from what I learned it's a clever way to rethink the brewing process and trying something differently.
I also adapted this for my small batch brewing system: my first try building a lauter unit for my ~5ltr setup was stacking two buckets, the outer with an outlet, the inner with milled slots. Reading about BIAB was an epiphany: I just replaced the inner bucket with a cotton diaper and a silicone tube with holes underneath and the whole process got a lot easier. I like it.
And I also like my 3 vat system, I put also lot of effort in putting it together.

IMO the thing about homebrewing is to find a path and a goal that suits you the best. For me it's having a delicious selfmade beer to share with friends and family and getting a distraction from daily routines like work once in a while. For some others it's tweaking around the process just for the sake of it, building a fully automated homebrewery from the scratch out of used car parts, brewing fully anaerob, winning competitions with brews nobody did before, etc...

And sometimes you get an helpful comment if you ask another person, sometimes it's just an opinion...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-with-pics.90132/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/easy-partial-mash-brewing-with-pics.75231/

 

[jtgoral]

BIAB is a cheapest and simplest way to do all grain for me since beginning of the century.

 

[bwible]

Take a look at this video:



You can find more here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brewery+mash+press

The idea that squeezing the grain extracts tannins is an old wives tale. Oversparging is a real thing that will extract tannins and silicates if the concentration of the wort (SG) gets too low. Tannin extraction is accelerated at pHs higher than about 6, and water temperatures above about 170°F.

Brew on

They’re always coming up with something.

Bet that’s fun to clean.

 

[ncbrewer]

Besides the issue of lautering efficiency if doing no-sparge BIAB, I have a concern about water chemistry. My theory: The grains help buffer the mash pH. Thinner mash, as with full volume no-sparge, would allow more fluctuation in the water chemistry. So when I started BIAB, I went with a water-to-grist ratio of about 1.5 - 2.0 qt./lb in the mash. I never tried a full volume mash, so I can't say whether my theory is correct. Maybe someone can comment on this.

 

[balrog]

I've been doing full volume BIAB over a decade, 250+ batches. I get measurably repeatable data on efficiency, pH, temperature and volumes. The beer is quite good but I don't submit to any shows.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Learn how to control mash pH and you can effectively deal with any source water or process choices.

 

[sibelman]

Bet that’s fun to clean.

Dude made it sound as if they just roll on to the next batch after dumping the spent grains.

Surely they must hose it off from time to time?

 

[ncbrewer]

My theory: The grains help buffer the mash pH. Thinner mash, as with full volume no-sparge, would allow more fluctuation in the water chemistry.

I should add that I don't have a pH meter and don't plan to get one. Possibly the buffering from the grains isn't important if you have a pH meter but might help with a simple set-up.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I don't have a pH meter and don't plan to get one

Neither do I. My system and total equipment collection is as simple as can be. Reliable water and a reputable software will get you as close as any homebrewer needs.

Maybe I should rephrase.

Without understanding how to control mash pH, any given source water or process choice may ruin a batch of beer.

 

[MaxStout]

Neither do I. My system and total equipment collection is as simple as can be. Reliable water and a reputable software will get you as close as any homebrewer needs.

Maybe I should rephrase.

Without understanding how to control mash pH, any given source water or process choice may ruin a batch of beer.

I just bought a pH meter last year and use it. I have found that my actual room temp mash pH always falls within a few 100ths of what Bru'NWater predicts. I've never had to adjust mash pH (so far), but the meter serves to confirm my numbers. I do keep a bottle of 10% phosphoric acid on hand, just in case.

 

[InspectorJon]

Besides the issue of lautering efficiency if doing no-sparge BIAB, I have a concern about water chemistry. My theory: The grains help buffer the mash pH. Thinner mash, as with full volume no-sparge, would allow more fluctuation in the water chemistry. So when I started BIAB, I went with a water-to-grist ratio of about 1.5 - 2.0 qt./lb in the mash. I never tried a full volume mash, so I can't say whether my theory is correct. Maybe someone can comment on this.

I have not used a pH meter so I guess this is anecdotal. Brun’ Water allows one to split strike water and sparge water. I just enter all the water as strike water and no sparge water. It seems to work fine for me.

 

[sibelman]

Regarding the title of this thread, and in my role as Mr. Word Person:

amateur may mean two strikingly different things, referring to one who does something for the love of it and also to one who is not terribly competent at something. (from Merriam-Webster)

We love homebrewing and are not in it for the money. Some of us are astonishingly competent at it, whether using BIAB, 3V, or whatnot. Many of us produce beers we prefer to most professionally brewed products.

So, in one sense, amateur is a very good thing indeed.

 

[Bobby_M]

Regarding the title of this thread, and in my role as Mr. Word Person:

amateur may mean two strikingly different things, referring to one who does something for the love of it and also to one who is not terribly competent at something. (from Merriam-Webster)

We love homebrewing and are not in it for the money. Some of us are astonishingly competent at it, whether using BIAB, 3V, or whatnot. Many of us produce beers we prefer to most professionally brewed products.

So, in one sense, amateur is a very good thing indeed.

Not to take away from what you said, but to add. If you use the word in a general sense to distinguish hobbyist from professional, I don't think it carries any connotation of skillset or quality. I think when people within an area of study are communicating with each other, the word DOES carry a different meaning; i.e. amateur suggests someone who has not yet refined their skillset to that of a connoisseur or master (professional or not). Maybe it doesn't but that's how I think of it. If another brewer called me an amateur I would take it as an insult.

 

[sibelman]

If another brewer called me an amateur I would take it as an insult.

Yes, that's a more common usage: mere amateur.

 

[SFC Rudy]

one big problem with this hobby are the people who lose their mud because someone does something different than they do.

 

[balrog]

I on the other hand, delight in seeing how people do things differently than I do.

So I can pilfer all the bits I want!

 

[Jonakr]

I have heard from some forums here and there that BIAB is for amateurs due to issues with extraction and such...
Please give me hope in the BIAB

So, it shouldn't matter unless your livelihood depends on the extraction of your mash?

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

Has anyone here taken part in a pro-am brew? Was it insulting to be called an amateur?

It amazes me that some have such strong opinions about how other brewers filter their wort.