BIAB Brew Kettle suggestions needed

[shoengine]

What do you have on your pot?

Rotating racking tube and recirculation\whirlpool arm. Since I am converting to electric I also have an element and a false bottom. If I had bought new I would also get one with a tangential inlet instead of the whirlpool arm.

I do have method of heat control, it's a propane burner and you're very correct with insulation (not so accurate with electric ). Temp will be monitored in pot via wifi temp guage. I'll explain:
Extract brewing involves steeping "grain in a bag" at 152f-160f for about 30 mins & I'll cover the lid to maintain temp, stir every 10-15 mins. When temp gets near below temp, i'll just ignite burner to maintain heat.

Be careful with this plan, as it is extremely easy to 1. Over-shoot your temperatures, and 2. Have significant temperature differentials in your mash. Another problem is that conduction works much better than radiation so the sides of the kettle will heat up faster than the mash and then continue to radiate heat into your mash after you turn the burner off. You have to essentially be constantly stirring and turn the propane off before you hit your required temperature.
I tried this early on in my all grain BIAB adventures but moved to insulating instead.

BIAB has the same theory (IMO) as "steeping grain in a bag" as extract, right?
Except, I'm steeping in a much larger bag at a longer time.

Mechanically it is the same. However with extract brewing you steep the grains for color and flavor while with BIAB you are "steeping" for color, flavor, acidification of the mash and saccharification of the starches contained in the malt.

With a propane burner, heat will be controlled, without electric automated controls, & recirculation will be monitored, accordingly.

Recirculation should help protect against stratification. Not sure it is as effective as stirring, but interested to see. Move your probe around during the mash to ensure it is consistently heated.

 

[Bobby_M]

I do have method of heat control, it's a propane burner and you're very correct with insulation (not so accurate with electric ). Temp will be monitored in pot via wifi temp guage. I'll explain:
Extract brewing involves steeping "grain in a bag" at 152f-160f for about 30 mins & I'll cover the lid to maintain temp, stir every 10-15 mins. When temp gets near below temp, i'll just ignite burner to maintain heat.
BIAB has the same theory (IMO) as "steeping grain in a bag" as extract, right?
Except, I'm steeping in a much larger bag at a longer time. With a propane burner, heat will be controlled, without electric automated controls, & recirculation will be monitored, accordingly. Yes you're right, an installed thermometer seems like a "snag in a bag" but a port for thermometer allows for Extract brewing, Wine, Mead, or whatever the hell else I want to brew, right? I will probably use a digital thermometer for proper temp.

I do understand the apparent similarities between steeping grain in extract brewing and the mashing process in BIAB brewing. I use the word "apparent" because when you actually do it, you realize that the mechanics of heat movement, gain and loss work very differently. I'm not suggesting you can't manually top up the heat with a burner, you can. I'm saying that if you don't have automatic temp control that you should not recirculate and leave the mash static to hold as much heat as possible. It's just so much easier to insulate and leave it alone.

I'm not sure what a thermometer port does for wine or mead in a boil kettle. Both of those are cold only processes that wouldn't involve this new kettle. Maybe you also ferment in your kettle?

Make sure you leave some room in your budget for a chiller. When you perform a full volume boil, you don't have the luxury of adding cold water to the fermenter.

 

[Ramjet]

I use a 15 gal. Megapot on a propane burner for 5 gal biab batches. Works fine I insulate with reflectix and a old sleeping bag. Less chance of a boil over and room to brew higher abv beers if needed.
A 10 gal will work. I started using a 10 gal with an induction cooktop indoors during the winter

 

[MaxStout]

During the sacc rest you only need to keep the mash at constant temp for the first 20 minutes or so. After that point conversion is mostly done. An old blanket or towel wrapped around the kettle will keep it fairly well insulated for that time.

 

[Art2019]

There are a number of brewers who don't seem to understand that BIAB is all-grain brewing. The way you phrased what I quoted could be interpreted as you also believed that there is some fundamental difference, and that somehow BIAB isn't "real" all-grain brewing.

Brew on

That was the 1st question I asked a few mos ago when getting interested in biab. Then I wanted to do it & never did so I forced my hand by ordering an all grain kit, or putting the cart b/4 the horse, per se.
Yes, the fundamemtal difference, imo, is the number of vessles & effort involved in all grain. It's more expensive & takes more energy.

 

[Art2019]

Rotating racking tube and recirculation\whirlpool arm. Since I am converting to electric I also have an element and a false bottom. If I had bought new I would also get one with a tangential inlet instead of the whirlpool arm.

Be careful with this plan, as it is extremely easy to 1. Over-shoot your temperatures, and 2. Have significant temperature differentials in your mash. Another problem is that conduction works much better than radiation so the sides of the kettle will heat up faster than the mash and then continue to radiate heat into your mash after you turn the burner off. You have to essentially be constantly stirring and turn the propane off before you hit your required temperature.
I tried this early on in my all grain BIAB adventures but moved to insulating instead.

Mechanically it is the same. However with extract brewing you steep the grains for color and flavor while with BIAB you are "steeping" for color, flavor, acidification of the mash and saccharification of the starches contained in the malt.

Recirculation should help protect against stratification. Not sure it is as effective as stirring, but interested to see. Move your probe around during the mash to ensure it is consistently heated.

During the sacc rest you only need to keep the mash at constant temp for the first 20 minutes or so. After that point conversion is mostly done. An old blanket or towel wrapped around the kettle will keep it fairly well insulated for that time.

I have a welding blanket I use for my smoker in the winter. You think that'll be sufficient? It's quite thick.

 

[MaxStout]

I have a welding blanket I use for my smoker in the winter. You think that'll be sufficient? It's quite thick.

Unless you're brewing in a very cold place, I would think the blanket would do fine.

 

[Art2019]

I do understand the apparent similarities between steeping grain in extract brewing and the mashing process in BIAB brewing. I use the word "apparent" because when you actually do it, you realize that the mechanics of heat movement, gain and loss work very differently. I'm not suggesting you can't manually top up the heat with a burner, you can. I'm saying that if you don't have automatic temp control that you should not recirculate and leave the mash static to hold as much heat as possible. It's just so much easier to insulate and leave it alone.

I'm not sure what a thermometer port does for wine or mead in a boil kettle. Both of those are cold only processes that wouldn't involve this new kettle. Maybe you also ferment in your kettle?

Make sure you leave some room in your budget for a chiller. When you perform a full volume boil, you don't have the luxury of adding cold water to the fermenter.

I've watched a couple biab "1st time biab" vids & one guy heated the water at 160 & then dumped the grain in heated water, reducing temp to about 154. After stirring grain a bit, he turned burner off & covered kettle with several jackets wrapped around with bungie cord & stirred every 15-20 mins. If heat droped too much, the heat was be reignited on low.
The thermometer would be used if I decide to extract plus with mead & wine, it's just habit, I guess. Mead & wine still needs to be cooked for a while & no, I wouldn't fermemt in the kettle; however, that is an option.

 

[Yesfan]

A better option for thermometers is this one right here. Inkbird 1HT-1P Thermometer

It has a display, is rechargable, has a magnetic back to it, and won't snag your brew bag. I'd get this and use the thermo port on your kettle for a recirculating/whirlpool. I have this same thermometer and love it. I stick on the hood above my stove when I'm doing small batch brewing upstairs.

 

[Art2019]

Unless you're brewing in a very cold place, I would think the blanket would do fine.

A better option for thermometers is this one right here. Inkbird 1HT-1P Thermometer

It has a display, is rechargable, has a magnetic back to it, and won't snag your brew bag. I'd get this and use the thermo port on your kettle for a recirculating/whirlpool. I have this same thermometer and love it. I stick on the hood above my stove when I'm doing small batch brewing upstairs.

But, If I get a 304 Stainless Steel pot, would the magnet work? Maybe a silly question, idn.
I just remembered I do have a wifi grill thermometer with 4 a 3 ft probe. I could just drape over side & slap cover over it.

I have a question....I read recirc or whirlpool isnt neccesary but recirculating improves efficiency. How would I recirculate if I don't have a kettle with appropriate port for it? Just do it with top open? Seems like that'll let alot of heat out while mashing.

 

[doug293cz]

I have a question....I read recirc or whirlpool isnt neccesary but recirculating improves efficiency.

Recirculation doesn't do anything for efficiency that can't be achieved simply by mashing a bit longer. Recirculation may (if done properly - no channeling, all wort recirculated, etc.) increase the rate of conversion (by steepening the chemical gradients in the mash). If your mash time is too short for you to achieve 100% conversion, then a higher rate of conversion will result in a higher conversion efficiency, which will flow thru to higher mash and brewhouse efficiency. But you can get the same result by mashing longer. The way to tell if your mash is "done" is to start measuring wort SG (after thorough mixing so the wort is homogeneous) after about 45 minutes, and then continue sampling about every 15 minutes. When the SG stops increasing between samples, the mash is done.

Recirculation is a big help, some would say a requirement, if you want to apply heat to the mash with fire or electricity. Not much use if doing step mashes by infusion or decoction.

Brew on

 

[Art2019]

I was just reading this online about recirc with biab.

 

[doug293cz]

I was just reading this online about recirc with biab.

Nothing in that is in conflict with what I wrote. In fact, I explained the circumstances under which recirc might improve your efficiency, plus how to get the same result without recirculation.

Brew on

 

[Art2019]

Thought you said recirc did nothing for efficiency? Must have read it wrong.

 

[doug293cz]

Thought you said recirc did nothing for efficiency? Must have read it wrong.

You didn't read and understand the full sentence.

"Recirculation doesn't do anything for efficiency that can't be achieved simply by mashing a bit longer."​

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

The starch gets wet. The enzymes get warm. The starch gets cut up into simple sugars. You remove the grain from the sugar water and try not to leave too much wort attached to it. Recirculation really isn't a big deal for that process. Recirculation is primarily a requirement for step mashing because it delivers heat from where the heat source is to where it isn't. Stirring can do the same thing.

 

[MaxStout]

And when you hoist out the bag of grain after the rest, squeeze it like it owes you money.

 

[Yesfan]

But, If I get a 304 Stainless Steel pot, would the magnet work? Maybe a silly question, idn.
I just remembered I do have a wifi grill thermometer with 4 a 3 ft probe. I could just drape over side & slap cover over it.

I have a question....I read recirc or whirlpool isnt neccesary but recirculating improves efficiency. How would I recirculate if I don't have a kettle with appropriate port for it? Just do it with top open? Seems like that'll let alot of heat out while mashing.

I stick mine on a magnet surface that keeps it nearby. I don't need, or want it, to be able to stick to the side of my direct fired boil kettle. When doing small batches in the kitchen, the exhaust hood above my stove keeps it within reach.

Your grill thermo would work too if you didn't want a new one. The Inkbird's selling point to me is its backlit display and that it is usb rechargable. Being magnetic is nice too. A lot to offer for under $25 imo.

 

[Duck&BarrelBrewing]

And when you hoist out the bag of grain after the rest, squeeze it like it owes you money.

Just a quick question on that....I was always told not to squeeze it and rather rinse it off because squeezing can release tannons that will further bitter the beer and it could throw off your IBUs. Do you notice a difference between squeezing and not squeezing?

 

[MaxStout]

Just a quick question on that....I was always told not to squeeze it and rather rinse it off because squeezing can release tannons that will further bitter the beer and it could throw off your IBUs. Do you notice a difference between squeezing and not squeezing?

That's a myth that refuses to die. You get tannins from over-sparging (which shouldn't be an issue with BIAB), or too high pH. Squeezing the grain doesn't do that.

For me, squeezing gleans a little more wort, maybe an extra pint or two.

 

[Willy]

Great thread! Lots of excellent advice.

I already made this journey... Needed a bigger pot for homebrewing. I will recount some steps to help you avoid my mistakes.

1) needed a bigger pot. I had an 8 g and needed more space. Having an inch or 2 of clearance isn't enough. I should be fine with a 10 g.
2) nope. 10 g was not fine. It also had a spikey thermometer point which ripped bags.
3) got a 14 g pot. There. Perfect. What I needed all along. Reasons? There's many. Big one is that it gives you more room for error.
4) loved this setup and was getting into all grain brewing. But I kept reading about the AIO systems like Brewzilla, Anvil and grainfather.
5) I decided to go AIO and did more reading. I ended up deciding to go 220v before I bought any system because of a quicker time to heat, and temp control.
6) had the electrician put in a new breaker box off the main panel and a pair of 220v outlets. One in the garage, one side where I like to brew. I have used both outlets but still brew 90% outside.
7) this system is wonderful but yeah, there is a cheap feel to it. And of course I wanted to do a double sized batch for stouts and pilsners, since stout conditioning and lagering pilsners takes time. Easier to make a double batch and be patient .
8) got the extender, bigger mash pipe for the Brewzilla. Wish I got the 65L size. Would have saved me time and money. I should have learned from. The 8 g to 10g kettle... To 14g kettle experience. Go big. If you plan to stay with the hobby, you'll be happy u did.
9) at some point, I will have Bobby at Brewhardware build me one but I am still happy with the Brewzilla and love its temp control via PID.
YMMV.

 

[mac_1103]

I am not in any way advocating that people go small on their kettle purchase, but FWIW I have a ten gallon Blichmann G1 and it works just fine for my five gallon BIAB batches. I do a dunk sparge which obviously helps keep the mash volume down. I also have a ten gallon igloo cooler so I can split the mash for my really big beers. I do have to boil longer on those but it's not that big a deal. I got the Blichmann for free, which dramatically changed the cost-benefit analysis on buying something bigger.

edit - and BTW, the Blichmann has a thermometer and it's never snagged my bag

 

[MaxStout]

I am not in any way advocating that people go small on their kettle purchase, but FWIW I have a ten gallon Blichmann G1 and it works just fine for my five gallon BIAB batches. I do a dunk sparge which obviously helps keep the mash volume down. I also have a ten gallon igloo cooler so I can split the mash for my really big beers. I do have to boil longer on those but it's not that big a deal. I got the Blichmann for free, which dramatically changed the cost-benefit analysis on buying something bigger.

edit - and BTW, the Blichmann has a thermometer and it's never snagged my bag

I have bulkhead kettle thermometers, too. Probes are only 2" long and rounded at the end, so no snags here, either. When hoisting the bag out I slide a long-handled spoon down along the side, just to make sure nothing catches.

 

[DavidWood2115]

That's a myth that refuses to die. You get tannins from over-sparging (which shouldn't be an issue with BIAB), or too high pH. Squeezing the grain doesn't do that.

Second that. Many very large commercial breweries use pneumatic mash filters that squeeze the grain far harder than you could ever do by hand.

 

[NH81!]

I do 5 gallon batches and use a 15 gallon kettle and have never felt like it was to big. Only issue is with smaller beers I use an immersion chiller and feel like it doesn't have efficient contact with the wort but it gets the job done. I also squeeze the hell out of my bag and have notice no negative effects

 

[Bobby_M]

edit - and BTW, the Blichmann has a thermometer and it's never snagged my bag

Besides the possibility of snagging the bag (it has happened to many people at least I know I've seen reports), an installed bimetal dial thermometer isn't very useful. It's inaccurate, slow, and is only measuring a small pocket of the mash that doesn't represent the average.
I guess what I'm saying is that if I already had a pot with an installed thermo, I "might" leave it there but I wouldn't seek out a kettle with one or pay to install one.

 

[mac_1103]

an installed bimetal dial thermometer isn't very useful. It's inaccurate, slow, and is only measuring a small pocket of the mash that doesn't represent the average.
I guess what I'm saying is that if I already had a pot with an installed thermo, I "might" leave it there but I wouldn't seek out a kettle with one or pay to install one.

No argument. The only reason mine has one is because it came that way from the previous owner who was giving it away.

 

[Corwin1968]

I use an 8 gallon, undrilled Mega Pot and am very happy with it. I went undrilled after a totally unsuccessful attempt to build a mash tun out of a cooler. About four days of not being able to get it to not leak, made me leery of anything with a spout. Now that I have an Anvil fermenter with a spout, I no longer have that fear, but my undrilled Mega Pot works fine.

As far as temperature control, I brew 3 gallon batches, which are generally 5 to 5.5 gallon mash volumes, and use thick folded towels on top, for insulation. I think the amount of thermal mass, with the construction and size of the kettle, does a pretty good job of maintaining temperature. At first, I checked it every 10 or 15 minutes and re-heated to mash temp, but got to the point where I just cover it and forget it. It drops a few degrees, but I don't think it's had a significant impact on the beer I brew.

 

[odie]

3X rule. kettle 3 times your batch size. High OG beers will push the volume limits.

 

[doug293cz]

3X rule. kettle 3 times your batch size. High OG beers will push the volume limits.

Or, at least 2.5X.

Brew on