BIAB Advantages

[Dmerner23]

Hey folks,
I have brewed extract beers and commercial size all grain. I’m looking to experiment with home all grain beers.Questions BIAB probably has advantages for small test batches, does anyone convert to larger (5 Gal and UP)? Is it a good technique to start learning and creating different brews? Thanks for help

 

[fun4stuff]

Its the only way to brew all grain. No reason to do it any other way. It's a faster and simpler way of making beer.

 

[doug293cz]

BIAB works for larger batches just fine, it's been used up to 145 gallon (4.7 barrels.) With large batches you need some kind pulley/hoist arrangement to handle the bag at the end of mash.

Obviously, it's not the only way to brew all grain.

Brew on

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Is it a good technique to start learning and creating different brews?

It is a good technique, especially for smaller batch sizes where the amount of grain and wort is easy to move around without mechanical devices.

As a general observation (I see OP has brewed commerically, so this may not be helpful to the specific question) - There are other techniques ("ASBC Hot Steep Malt Sensory"), sensory kits, and flavor descriptor profiles that may be helpful.

 

[Immocles]

Bigger batches are common in biab. I've seen threads here and there of the extreme sizes, but 10G is definitely a common brew size for folks

 

[NitrogenWidget]

I do BIAB with a 15 gallon kettle and a big strong ladder on my patio to lift the bag.

I'm not going to say one is better than the other.
both have pros and cons.
both make great beer.

i will say as a new brewer with limited cash at the time BIAB was more attractive price wise than a 3 tier system.

 

[madscientist451]

I started with BIAB, switched to Bag in a cooler and am now back to BIAB.
It was easier for me to control mash temperature in a cooler. Eventually, I figured a way to insulate my brew pot and usually do overnight mashes because I don't have much time for brewing these days.
BIAB isn't the best option for everyone, but it works for me.

 

[myndflyte]

BIAB is the only way I do it (5 gal batches). Get yourself a pulley setup and it'll make lifting the bag way more easier. I find it easier and just more enjoyable for me and my setup.

 

[fun4stuff]

Its the only way to brew all grain. No reason to do it any other way. It's a faster and simpler way of making beer.

Meaning, there is no reason to use a 3 tier system over biab at the homebrew level. Sure both ways make good beer with the same endpoint. But biab is a faster, easier, and cheaper way of meeting that endpoint.

 

[NeoBrew]

I started BIAB after half a dozen batches of extract. It's a great process that simplifies and shortens the time it takes to do all grain. I used it for 5 gallon batches and it worked really well. That was 5 years or so ago. It was pretty new in the U.S. and a lot of people looked down their nose at it. I think it's pretty widely accepted as a good process now. The pulley or some other way to suspend the bag is important. For higher gravity beers and 5 gallon batches that bag is heavy and just a little too hot to touch.

Like so much of my brewing I can't seem to help but make it more complicated for myself. I love DIY and tinkering. My first steps were temp control for my BIAB, (which was just a hot plate and a spoon to stir) then I decided to start doing a dunk sparge, which required another pot for a HLT. Temp control led to a pump and a RIMS tube to recirculate. In order to keep the bag out of the pump inlet I bought a false bottom. By this time I was only 1 pot short of a full 3-vessel system. I was eyeing up an indoor area for brewing where it was going to be harder to suspend the bag, so I made the switch to 3-vessel and moved inside with a natural gas burner.

I do miss some of the simplicity of BIAB. My brew days are longer and usually much more challenging with my more complicated setup. If I could go back in time and convince myself to keep it simple I'm sure I would still be doing BIAB.

 

[doug293cz]

Meaning, there is no reason to use a 3 tier system over biab at the homebrew level. Sure both ways make good beer with the same endpoint. But biab is a faster, easier, and cheaper way of meeting that endpoint.

I would phrase that as: "there is no need to use a 3 vessel system on a homebrew level." Reasons can just be personal preference, which is totally acceptable for a hobby.

Brew on

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

there is no reason to use a 3 tier system over biab at the homebrew level

With BIAB, how would one brew a parti-gyle set of beers where the 1st runnings (down to a specific OG) are used to make a "big beer" and the rest of the wort is used to make a "smaller" beer?

 

[Bobby_M]

With BIAB, how would one brew a parti-gyle set of beers where the 1st runnings (down to a specific OG) are used to make a "big beer" and the rest of the wort is used to make a "smaller" beer?

It's not impossible but not particularly practical. You'd do a primary mash and when conversion is done, you pull the bag out and then dunk it into another vessel (bucket) filled with a couple gallons of water. Now you have two containers with two different gravities of wort. Using some basic math, you mix and match your two batches by drawing off those two worts.

 

[OnePlate]

With BIAB, how would one brew a parti-gyle set of beers where the 1st runnings (down to a specific OG) are used to make a "big beer" and the rest of the wort is used to make a "smaller" beer?

Pull the grain bag out when the gravity reaches a certain point and put it in a new kettle and continue mashing? Might be tricky with regard to mash pH but probably doable.

EDIT: dang, Bobby beat me to it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So parti-gyle would be a reason to brew with a three tier system (vs BIAB).

there is no reason to use a 3 tier system over biab

Pull the grain bag out when the gravity reaches a certain point and put it in a new kettle and continue mashing? Might be tricky with regard to mash pH but probably doable.

EDIT: dang, Bobby beat me to it.

It's not impossible but not particularly practical. You'd do a primary mash and when conversion is done, you pull the bag out and then dunk it into another vessel (bucket) filled with a couple gallons of water. Now you have two containers with two different gravities of wort. Using some basic math, you mix and match your two batches by drawing off those two worts.

 

[Bobby_M]

So parti-gyle would be a reason to brew with a three tier system (vs BIAB).

I suppose if you primarily only brew big beers and want to parti-gyle almost all of those times, that's a point. If it's occasionally, I don't find the BIAB workaround to be that much more problematic than a 3 vessel method since you'd be collecting your small beer wort into a bucket too.

Wort/mash PH is an issue in all those cases. The end of the runnings for the small beer can be some high pH if you don't acidify your sparge water.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Repeating the question so @fun4stuff has a chance to reply as well.

there is no reason to use a 3 tier system over biab at the homebrew level

With BIAB, how would one brew a parti-gyle set of beers where the 1st runnings (down to a specific OG) are used to make a "big beer" and the rest of the wort is used to make a "smaller" beer?

 

[hottpeper13]

I build the main mash for 1.100 and 65% eff. in a 15 gal BK (most times around 30-35 lbs) and use enough liquor for 7.5 gal in BK after pulling and squeezing. I then move the BK aside and put my gypsy kettle under the bag and put 7.5 gal of liquor in there and dunk the bag for 10 min. Most of the time I add some sort of flaked grain to the second batch to augment some of the grainy flavor. Boil both with their own hops and schedule and you get two completely different brews,and the second one can be consumed while the other ages.

 

[fun4stuff]

Repeating the question so @fun4stuff has a chance to reply as well.



With BIAB, how would one brew a parti-gyle set of beers where the 1st runnings (down to a specific OG) are used to make a "big beer" and the rest of the wort is used to make a "smaller" beer?

I have never done a partigyle, so i'm far from an expert on the topic. I’m always brewing to replace 1 of my kegs. But perhaps i could just bottle the partigyle batch.

If you do a search, there are many posts on doing partigyle with BIAB. One of them that seemed to answer the question:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/partigyle-biab.521361/

We've misunderstood parti-gyling, totally. You do not split your batch into first runnings and 2nd ones, and make beer out of each. The runnings get mixedtogether in different proportions. So your strong ale is most (say 70%) of first runnings and your mild is then 30% first and 70% of 2nd runnings. 2ndrunnings do not have the same composition as 1st runnings.

There's a really informative article in Zymurgy(Nov/Dec 2014), how small British breweriesproduced 10-12 beers.

Here's another: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/biab-partigyle.434075/

 

[LittleRiver]

...BIAB... Is it a good technique to start learning and creating different brews?...

When BIAB came along, the simplicity and effectiveness of it showed that many homebrewers had unnecessarily complicated the process of making beer. Some enjoy that complexity, they love the tinkering with hardware as much or more than they like making beer. There's nothing wrong with that. But the additional complexity does bring along some negatives -- more expense, more cleaning, more troubleshooting, and typically a longer brew day.

I prefer my brew rig to be as simple as possible. I want my focus to be on the enjoyment of making beer. I don't want to focus on (or have to clean) a bunch of unnecessary hardware.

I use a very simple BIAB rig, and almost every brew is something I haven't brewed before. So the answer to your question is a definite yes.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If you do a search, there are many posts on doing partigyle with BIAB. One of them that seemed to answer the question:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/partigyle-biab.521361/

FWIW, Radical Brewing, starting on p 126, has a section "Big Wort" which talks about a "parti-gyle" brew where the 1st and 2nd runnings are not combined.

 

[Dmerner23]

Awesome thanks for the input. Do you guys use immersion circulator to keep desire temps? And have anyone tried the over night method?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Its the only way to brew all grain. No reason to do it any other way. It's a faster and simpler way of making beer.

TL;DR: this is a false statement.

I despise this type of statement. It's not the only way, nor is it universally the best way. What's best for any given person is the method that produces beer that they like with a process they enjoy.

So many act like simple, fast, easy is end-all-be-all of brewing. Some people like a full 3 vessel rig with pumps, valves, recirculation, etc. They enjoy the full process and don't get worked up if it takes longer than 4 hours to produce their wort and clean up. Why act like they're doing it wrong? They're doing it right for their particular needs, interests and desires.

Sheesh, get off your high horse.


All that being said, I do a recirculating eBIAB. It's versatile, takes up less space and allows me to do techniques that would be a huge PITA with straight BIAB. I did a two step mash with Beta and Alpha amylase steps to produce a highly fermentable wort. Fermentation is complete at it did exactly what I wanted it to do....produce a relatively low FG.

 

[fun4stuff]

Awesome thanks for the input. Do you guys use immersion circulator to keep desire temps? And have anyone tried the over night method?

There is no point to recirculating BIAB (to keep temp at 1 constant temp; there are exceptions of course: e.g. step mashes). This is not to mention the water that passes through many of the sous vide immersion circulators is not meant for consumption due to the parts it comes in contact with.

One of the main points of BIAB is you can finely mill the hell out of the grain, put it in a bag without worry of a stuck mash, and have a much more efficient and faster way of getting the sugar out of the grain. As many others will tell you on here, mash conversion happens in about 15 mins with finely milled grain (check yourself with iodine test). You aren't going to have a significant drop in temperature in that amount of time, especially if you're insulating your kettle. Historically, I mash for about 45-60 mins and lose maybe 1-2 deg over this time. I tend to err on side of a shorter mash time for LODO brewing (minimize time exposed to air with a mash cap); there are other less temp dependent processes occurring during the mash besides conversion so i think there still benefit of mashing longer than 15 mins.

If you spend enough time on these forums you will find people touting various complicated processes with the assumption that more complication equals better beer (3 tier system included). This is a false assumption and one of the reasons why I enjoy reading about evidence based brewing. Quite often, the more complicated something is, the more likely something will get screwed up. The best process is often times the easiest and most reproducible process (if end result is the same).

The other thing people will say goes along the lines of, "well, who cares what they do? The best process is different for everyone based on what works for them and what they enjoy." This is fine and all; part of me gets this. But the scientist in me sees it as a Rube Goldberg machine: a machine intentionally designed to perform a simple task in an indirect and overly complicated way.

So i stand behind the above statement that BIAB is the only way to brew, which ive echoing on here for 5+ yrs since before BIAB was popular. And by “only way”... i mean it in the same tone that i say that soft shell tacos are the only way to eat tacos.

 

[InspectorJon]

Sheesh, get off your high horse.

Am I the only one that sees a lot of irony in this statement?

 

[InspectorJon]

Regarding partigyle or second runnings. After I get done collecting my primary wort (1st runnings) I regularly dunk my grain bag in a bucket with a gallon of hot water in it and let it sit while I get the main brew kettle boiling and the rest of the process under way. Once the 2nd runnings is cools enough to easily handle I squeeze this out and get a few liters of free wort suitable for making starter. I freeze it in PET bottles until needed.

I did this once after making a big stout and there was enough sugar left to make a small batch of pretty good amber ale.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Cross linking "BIAB Advantages" and "BIAB Disadvantages" for future readers.

 

[burtom]

One of my favorite things about BIAB is how easy it is to brew a big beer. Mash 30 minutes on one 20 pound bag of grain and then do another 20 pound bag for 60 minutes and you end up with 5 gallons 1.100 OG wort even if your efficiency is bad.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

One of my favorite things about BIAB is how easy it is to brew a big beer. Mash 30 minutes on one 20 pound bag of grain and then do another 20 pound bag for 60 minutes and you end up with 5 gallons 1.100 OG wort even if your efficiency is bad.

Wow, 40 lbs for a 1.100 OG wort? I hope that's pre-boil....

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

There is no point to recirculating BIAB (to keep temp at 1 constant temp; there are exceptions of course: e.g. step mashes). This is not to mention the water that passes through many of the sous vide immersion circulators is not meant for consumption due to the parts it comes in contact with.

One of the main points of BIAB is you can finely mill the hell out of the grain, put it in a bag without worry of a stuck mash, and have a much more efficient and faster way of getting the sugar out of the grain. As many others will tell you on here, mash conversion happens in about 15 mins with finely milled grain (check yourself with iodine test). You aren't going to have a significant drop in temperature in that amount of time, especially if you're insulating your kettle. Historically, I mash for about 45-60 mins and lose maybe 1-2 deg over this time. I tend to err on side of a shorter mash time for LODO brewing (minimize time exposed to air with a mash cap); there are other less temp dependent processes occurring during the mash besides conversion so i think there still benefit of mashing longer than 15 mins.

If you spend enough time on these forums you will find people touting various complicated processes with the assumption that more complication equals better beer (3 tier system included). This is a false assumption and one of the reasons why I enjoy reading about evidence based brewing. Quite often, the more complicated something is, the more likely something will get screwed up. The best process is often times the easiest and most reproducible process (if end result is the same).

The other thing people will say goes along the lines of, "well, who cares what they do? The best process is different for everyone based on what works for them and what they enjoy." This is fine and all; part of me gets this. But the scientist in me sees it as a Rube Goldberg machine: a machine intentionally designed to perform a simple task in an indirect and overly complicated way.

So i stand behind the above statement that BIAB is the only way to brew, which ive echoing on here for 5+ yrs since before BIAB was popular. And by “only way”... i mean it in the same tone that i say that soft shell tacos are the only way to eat tacos.

Softshell tacos suck. Hard shell corn is the only way to eat tacos. I'm a North going zax BTW.

 

[burtom]

Yes preboil.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Sheesh, get off your high horse.

Don't judge my horse just because he might have over-indulged today. For them it's like a holiday.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

Wow, 40 lbs for a 1.100 OG wort? I hope that's pre-boil....

based on my brew software and my efficiency, 40lbs of grain would give me an OG that would sanitize itself of any yeast at about halfway through the fermentation process.

That's if I could even get that much grain wet on an amount of water that wouldn't need a 3 hr boil to reach 5 gallons.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Yes preboil.

Wow...I brewed a BCBS clone with OG 1.128, 5g batch, with a bit over 25 lbs.

 

[Dmerner23]

Thanks for all the input. That’s what is so great about brewing. There are so many ways and you have to find what works best. I’m going to. Try just to see. And i see that people say circulators are and aren’t necessary, well being a chef i have one anyways so not an added expense.

 

[Nubiwan]

One of my favorite things about BIAB is how easy it is to brew a big beer. Mash 30 minutes on one 20 pound bag of grain and then do another 20 pound bag for 60 minutes and you end up with 5 gallons 1.100 OG wort even if your efficiency is bad.

Trying to understand why you would do this, so please forgive my naivete.

What do you ultimately do with the high gravity wort, when making your final beer(s)? Simply dilute it down, boil(?), and ferment to make smaller batches? How much (gallons) do you make from 40 LBS grain? Or are you just making a high ABV beer?

How do you store the wort? How long shelf life would it have?

 

[InspectorJon]

Trying to understand why you would do this, so please forgive my naivete.

Research "reiterated mash". It is a process for brewing high gravity beers like imperial stout or barley wine. In this scenario I would definitely want to do a large sparge with the left over grain for a second smaller beer, unless the cost of grain is unimportant to you.

 

[NitrogenWidget]

Research "reiterated mash". It is a process for brewing high gravity beers like imperial stout or barley wine. In this scenario I would definitely want to do a large sparge with the left over grain for a second smaller beer, unless the cost of grain is unimportant to you.

except if you read what he is doing, he is using all 40lbs of grain in a 5 gallon batch?
His efficiency has to be around 40% if he's at 1.100.

plugging 40# of grain into any brewing software with biab efficiency give me 1.200 + OG.
I made Edworts porter with ~15# of grain and overshot my mark.
I ended up with a 1.078 OG.

i'm wondering what he is trying to do also because it seems like a waste of grain.

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

The advantage of BIAB for me is the simplicity.

• 60L Kettle on a 3500W induction plate. No pumps, pipes or anything else that can get infected. Only point of concern is ball valve.
  
• Mash in with a full volume mash
  Wrap up and leave alone for an hour (at this stage I have enough confidence in my system/process that I don't need to take readings at every step). Or give a good stir after 15mins and pull your samples.
• Pull bag onto a colander and bringing wort to boil.
  
• When bag draining slows down to a trickle move colander and bag over to bucket. Put lid on kettle to get to boil temp quicker. Collect last liter of wort during boil in bucket and use for vitality starter. Or dump back into boil during last 15mins.
  
• After boil; kill heat, remove kettle jacket and start chilling with Immersion Chiller. First ~25L of very hot water from IC put aside for cleaning.
• etc, etc

I initially tried to get as technical as possible with recirc pumps, raspberry pi temp control and other stuff to be as exact as possible. I thoroughly enjoyed lots of learning and stuff but ultimately decided to follow the KISS principle for an easier life and (for me) a more enjoyable, quicker, stress free, brew day.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

The advantage of BIAB for me is the simplicity.

• 60L Kettle on a 3500W induction plate. No pumps, pipes or anything else that can get infected. Only point of concern is ball valve.
  
• Mash in with a full volume mash
  Wrap up and leave alone for an hour (at this stage I have enough confidence in my system/process that I don't need to take readings at every step). Or give a good stir after 15mins and pull your samples.
• Pull bag onto a colander and bringing wort to boil.
  
• When bag draining slows down to a trickle move colander and bag over to bucket. Put lid on kettle to get to boil temp quicker. Collect last liter of wort during boil in bucket and use for vitality starter. Or dump back into boil during last 15mins.
  
• After boil; kill heat, remove kettle jacket and start chilling with Immersion Chiller. First ~25L of very hot water from IC put aside for cleaning.
• etc, etc

I initially tried to get as technical as possible with recirc pumps, raspberry pi temp control and other stuff to be as exact as possible. I thoroughly enjoyed lots of learning and stuff but ultimately decided to follow the KISS principle for an easier life and (for me) a more enjoyable, quicker, stress free, brew day.

I'll never get away from a pump for a number of reasons:
1) It speeds up the chilling...significantly
2) I brew a fair number of NEIPAs and I whirlpool post-boil hop additions
3) Whirlpooling keeps a lot of trub out of my fermenter
4) I pump to my fermenter using one of these to aerate. Gravity feed doesn't get the same action.

The fact that I'll never get away from one doesn't concern me because it doesn't require a lot of extra equipment, doesn't add time, and it's easy to deal with.

Also, I don't worry about infection on the hot side so much as the pump is easy to clean and easy to sanitize.

Extra equipment: A pump, a hose (for flow return) and a SS whirlpool cane attached to my immersion chiller.