Adding a recirc pump to my BIAB setup

[redrocker652002]

OK, so I am sure I have beaten this to death, but I still have that 60 dollar gift card to Austin Home Brew. My son gave it to me, so I would like to use it for something that I can use, not just a recipe. My thought is a recirc pump that will work with my AG BIAB setup. Keeping it in the 60 dollar range I found that Anvil makes one. Does anyone know if it will work with any setup or just the Anvil setup? I know it is probably not the best, but I want to use the gift card for something useful. Thoughts and comments are always welcomed.

 

[fluketamer]

bobby m would likely know the answer to that question.

 

[Broken Crow]

Since recirculation doesn't need a powerful pump, that Anvil would certainly be up to the task but as an old-fart who generally distrusts plastic, I'd go with a Topsflo TD-5 with SS head. If you do get any pump though, you'll still need the fittings and it's easy to forget that the cost of those can really add up so maybe: Take stock of all the stuff you'd like to add on or improve and buy a batch of fittings, maybe upgrade some barbs to camolcks or QD's, get some new hose or SS nipples, spare disconnects, carb-caps,...all the little things that you can suddenly despartely need when you're right in the middle of something but had put off buying.
Just a thought.

 

[whoaru99]

And don't forget throttling valves.

When I get my recirc going somewhere along the way it will be two paths each with independent throttling valve/flow control.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Trying to picture how a recirc pump would work with a bag. Perhaps the bag sits on a false bottom?

 

[redrocker652002]

Trying to picture how a recirc pump would work with a bag. Perhaps the bag sits on a false bottom?

My thought was run a tube from the kettle ball valve to the pump and then another tube from the pump to the top of the kettle and get some sort of valve at the end to spread the wort out, if that makes sense.

 

[BongoYodeler]

My thought was run a tube from the kettle ball valve to the pump and then another tube from the pump to the top of the kettle and get some sort of valve at the end to spread the wort out, if that makes sense.

Would the suction from the pump be enough to pull the bottom of the bag into the ball valve? Or at least try to? I do BIAB and have discounted the idea of a pump because of that possibility. Besides, depending on the grains used I typically am getting between 72% and 80% mash efficiency which seems good enough to me.

 

[k-daddy]

My thought was run a tube from the kettle ball valve to the pump and then another tube from the pump to the top of the kettle and get some sort of valve at the end to spread the wort out, if that makes sense.

This is my setup. Based on Bobby’s Brewhardware design… works great. Topsflo pump is more than twice the GPM (7) of the Anvil (3)… also twice the price. The Anvil might be fine for the recirculation but I wouldn’t expect a strong whirlpool.

 

[Exception13]

Trying to picture how a recirc pump would work with a bag. Perhaps the bag sits on a false bottom?

Have a look at @Bobby_M info on his eBIAB rigs. You'll see a really great way to set up recirc.

Or at @k-daddy reply above.... I really need to read the whole thread before opening my mouth...

 

[Brewer Mike]

Would the suction from the pump be enough to pull the bottom of the bag into the ball valve? Or at least try to? I do BIAB and have discounted the idea of a pump because of that possibility. Besides, depending on the grains used I typically am getting between 72% and 80% mash efficiency which seems good enough to me.

I have no problems using the Riptide. Not sure about the abilities of smaller pumps.
You do get the advantage of better temperature control of the mash.

 

[Bobby_M]

Would the suction from the pump be enough to pull the bottom of the bag into the ball valve? Or at least try to? I do BIAB and have discounted the idea of a pump because of that possibility. Besides, depending on the grains used I typically am getting between 72% and 80% mash efficiency which seems good enough to me.

There's are three things to consider if you normally just leave the bag sitting on the bottom of the kettle.

1. A false bottom creates a heatable zone without scorching the bag. It's more commonly used in electric setups, but the concept can work in a direct heat kettle as well.

2. When recirculating, a false bottom allows for liquid to evenly drain through the grain bed downward and then when it gets to the liquid only layer, it can freely move towards the drain. If a bag were just loosely sitting on the bottom, the suction of the pump will pull a section of bag in and most likely the pump will starve for volume.

3. The liquid only zone, in the case of electric element heat, allows you to use the pump to stir that area via whirlpool. It's important when your element is running on a controller that requires a temp probe for feedback. Having a relatively static zone where that much heat is being produced creates haphazard heat control.

There's nothing wrong with a static BIAB setup. It makes wort. Sometimes it makes wort that is a little more or less fermentable with the lack of precise control, but precise repeatability is not the top priority for many people.

 

[BongoYodeler]

This is my setup. Based on Bobby’s Brewhardware design… works great. Topsflo pump is more than twice the GPM (7) of the Anvil (3)… also twice the price. The Anvil might be fine for the recirculation but I wouldn’t expect a strong whirlpool.

Have a look at @Bobby_M info on his eBIAB rigs. You'll see a really great way to set up recirc.

Or at @k-daddy reply above.... I really need to read the whole thread before opening my mouth...

I have no problems using the Riptide. Not sure about the abilities of smaller pumps.
You do get the advantage of better temperature control of the mash.

There's are three things to consider if you normally just leave the bag sitting on the bottom of the kettle.

1. A false bottom creates a heatable zone without scorching the bag. It's more commonly used in electric setups, but the concept can work in a direct heat kettle as well.

2. When recirculating, a false bottom allows for liquid to evenly drain through the grain bed downward and then when it gets to the liquid only layer, it can freely move towards the drain. If a bag were just loosely sitting on the bottom, the suction of the pump will pull a section of bag in and most likely the pump will starve for volume.

3. The liquid only zone, in the case of electric element heat, allows you to use the pump to stir that area via whirlpool. It's important when your element is running on a controller that requires a temp probe for feedback. Having a relatively static zone where that much heat is being produced creates haphazard heat control.

There's nothing wrong with a static BIAB setup. It makes wort. Sometimes it makes wort that is a little more or less fermentable with the lack of precise control, but precise repeatability is not the top priority for many people.

Thanks guys!! I was trying to imagine what it would look like and what benefit I could see based on my current biab mash/boil setup, which is a 15 gal Spike single-port kettle, wrapped with a blanket and a sleeping bag. I heat my strike water with a Blichmann nat gas burner, that I assume is retaining a bit of heat once I cut the flame. I already have things pretty dialed in, but was curious about @redrocker652002 thoughts and setup, which prompted me to ask about a false bottom, in post #5. I've thought about a recirc pump setup over the past few years, but I always get stuck thinking about the point @Bobby_M brings up in #2 statement above. Plus, in the end I've never looked into this further due to asking myself, "what would the cost/benefit be in my case," based on the following conditions:

1. Most of the time, for a 60 min mash I'm only losing about 1 degree.
2. My mash efficiency is usually 72-75%, with an occasional outlier.
3. Retired income.

 

[redrocker652002]

Good stuff, thanks to all who replied. I should probably expand on my setup a bit. My GasOne kettle comes with a false bottom that I have never used. My understanding was with a BIAB setup, the false bottom is not really needed. I am able to get the bag hung in the kettle so it does not touch the bottom. At least it has not scorched as of yet. But, if I decide to add a pump then I guess the false bottom is going to be better. Also, I have a bunch of parts from a haul that I got and a couple of the parts are copper diffusers (for lack of a better way of describing them). One is a roundish ball with a bunch of spray nozzles drilled into it. I was thinking, if I could figure out a way to suspend that over the bag and get a decent flow rate, that might be a nice addition to the rig and will help, maybe, with the possible recirc of the wort. My efficiency is somewhere around 72 to 75%, so that's not bad. I see a lot of folks doing the recirc, so I thought it might be a good addition. The one thing that stood out on all these posts was the possibility of temp changes during the mash. I have a pretty good feel now for how to keep my wort at about 150 to 155 consistently during the mash, so maybe this is not a good addition for me.

Thanks to all who replied. I am going to read thru it all again so I can understand the good and bad. The EBIAB is also very interesting to me, but I don't have a 220 close by, so 110 would be it, and cash is a bit limited as of right now. But, if I continue with a BIAB setup, or even move to a two or three vessel setup, this might be of interest.

 

[Bobby_M]

Good stuff, thanks to all who replied. I should probably expand on my setup a bit. My GasOne kettle comes with a false bottom that I have never used. My understanding was with a BIAB setup, the false bottom is not really needed. I am able to get the bag hung in the kettle so it does not touch the bottom. At least it has not scorched as of yet. But, if I decide to add a pump then I guess the false bottom is going to be better. Also, I have a bunch of parts from a haul that I got and a couple of the parts are copper diffusers (for lack of a better way of describing them). One is a roundish ball with a bunch of spray nozzles drilled into it. I was thinking, if I could figure out a way to suspend that over the bag and get a decent flow rate, that might be a nice addition to the rig and will help, maybe, with the possible recirc of the wort. My efficiency is somewhere around 72 to 75%, so that's not bad. I see a lot of folks doing the recirc, so I thought it might be a good addition. The one thing that stood out on all these posts was the possibility of temp changes during the mash. I have a pretty good feel now for how to keep my wort at about 150 to 155 consistently during the mash, so maybe this is not a good addition for me.

Thanks to all who replied. I am going to read thru it all again so I can understand the good and bad. The EBIAB is also very interesting to me, but I don't have a 220 close by, so 110 would be it, and cash is a bit limited as of right now. But, if I continue with a BIAB setup, or even move to a two or three vessel setup, this might be of interest.

The typical false bottom used with a bag is much more coarse than one designed for holding bare grain back.

Recirculation is only a benefit if your current process leaves a wide range of temperatures during the mash. If you have good temp consistency and hold for the entire mash, there's nothing to improve. If anything, spraying wort through a spray ball can only take your wort quality backwards.

 

[redrocker652002]

The typical false bottom used with a bag is much more coarse than one designed for holding bare grain back.

Recirculation is only a benefit if your current process leaves a wide range of temperatures during the mash. If you have good temp consistency and hold for the entire mash, there's nothing to improve. If anything, spraying wort through a spray ball can only take your wort quality backwards.

Thank you for the info. I have been pretty good at keeping mash temps between 150 and 155, so that is good for me. Was just thinking out loud and I am always glad I ask the question here. Great info. Thanks all

 

[Exception13]

3. Retired income.

Word!