Better bottle conditioning for hoppy beers

[SMOKEU]

TL;DR: Obvious answer is "buy a keg setup".

But funds don't allow for that. I really enjoy hoppy beers and I have a great temperature controlled cupboard for bottle carbonation. We all know that hop aroma suffers greatly from bottling vs kegging - but what can I do better?

I do a 2 week primary ferment including a 2-3 day cold crash. I'll sometimes use gelatin. I use either US-05 or Mangrove Jack's M44 yeast. I very carefully rack from the fermenter to the bottling bucket with an auto-siphon, and I'm careful to avoid any splashing. I gently stir in some boiled sugar water according to the carbonation I want. I seem to always have proper carbonation after 2 weeks even if I cold crash with gelatin. I set my brew cupboard to 22C (72F), then put them straight into the garage after 2 weeks (it's winter now).

I know oxygen is our main enemy here, and then there are the elevated temperatures needed for carbonation.

One day I will get a keg setup. One day...

 

[IslandLizard]

One thing I learned differently: Add your sugar water to the bottling bucket before adding beer. Curl the hose on the bottom so the resulting vortex should mix it. Then a gentle stir at the end for good measure. I doubt it makes a difference either way.

I can't see where you could improve with that setup, and not having a keg or purgeable vessel and CO2.

How are your hoppy beers in the bottles?

 

[SMOKEU]

You're right about putting the sugar water in the bottling bucket first - I'll start doing that with the next batch I'm bottling in a couple of days.

My hoppy beers are fairly good, although when comparing them side-by-side with the official brewery endorsed all grain kits (like Behemoth Chur) or simply just when making up my own recipes, the beer never tastes as fresh or "bright" as commercial examples. I aim for around 200ppm sulfate, or even more if the kit indicates that, so I'm sure I'm getting my water right. I'm careful to get my mash pH in the correct range also.

Most of my beers are based on my own recipe - around 90% pale ale malt, 10% light crystal, and then I use hops of my choice for 60, 10, 0 min, and dry hop. I try not to use more than 100g (around 4oz) of dry hopping to avoid excessive oxygenation.

 

[IslandLizard]

Your malt bill is fine for IPAs. Simple is good, 10% Light Crystal.

You could experiment with hop stands/whirlpool hops after the boil, at lowered temps instead of, or in addition to, late boil and flameout hops. Such as 1-2 oz for 20-30' at 160-150F/71-65C. You pick up some extra bitterness all the way down to 140F/60C, but not as much as in the boil or flameout. NEIPAs rely on those after boil additions to pack in more and more flavor (and aroma).

Definitely dry hops, 5-3 days before packaging.

But in the end, oxygen exposure really needs to be avoided with those hoppy beers.
What makes you think using more dry hops causes excessive oxygenation?
What kind of fermenter do you use?

 

[monkeymath]

I haven't done any real tests to back this up, but I would think that bottling straight from the fermenter would introduce less oxygen than when first racking it to a bottling bucket. Simply add sugar to the bottles individually. There are plastic "spoon" thingys that help measuring it out; of course it's hard to dial in a specific level of carbonation, but honestly I prefer almost all my beers at (slightly below) medium carbonation, so this is not a huge limitation imho.
It actually cuts down considerably on the time spent cleaning and sanitizing.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would think that bottling straight from the fermenter would introduce less oxygen than when first racking it to a bottling bucket.
Simply add sugar to the bottles individually.

That's a very good point, all efforts to reduce air/O2 exposure should help.
Some here in the U.S. use "Domino's" sugar cubes. 1 per 12 oz bottle.

Instead, you could use a syringe filled with priming sugar solution to dope your bottles before filling with beer.

Hang that siphon or racking cane halfway between the trub and beer level, lower as the level drops. Use an inverter tippy on the end to direct the flow to come from above.
You could even tie a piece of nylon mesh or voile around the bottom of the cane to keep suspended hop particles out.

 

[SMOKEU]

But in the end, oxygen exposure really needs to be avoided with those hoppy beers.
What makes you think using more dry hops causes excessive oxygenation?
What kind of fermenter do you use?

I was under the impression that adding dry hops (pellets in my case) causes extra nucleation points or something due to more surface area. That's all I know on the matter.

I use plastic bucket style fermenters. Changing to a different fermenter is not an option as then I will need a bigger brew fridge (this one barely fits as is and I had to bend the crap out of the fridge cold plate just for it to fit).

I haven't done any real tests to back this up, but I would think that bottling straight from the fermenter would introduce less oxygen than when first racking it to a bottling bucket. Simply add sugar to the bottles individually. There are plastic "spoon" thingys that help measuring it out; of course it's hard to dial in a specific level of carbonation, but honestly I prefer almost all my beers at (slightly below) medium carbonation, so this is not a huge limitation imho.
It actually cuts down considerably on the time spent cleaning and sanitizing.

I did try bottling directly from the fermenter a few years ago when I first started brewing, but that was no-boil kits with no dry hops. I can end up with around 2L of trub at the bottom of the fermenter if it's something hoppy. I do strain out the hop debris from the kettle before going to the fermenter. I'm just thinking I'll get a lot of sediment in the bottles if I bottled from the fermenter.

That's a very good point, all efforts to reduce air/O2 exposure should help.
Some here in the U.S. use "Domino's" sugar cubes. 1 per 12 oz bottle.

Instead, you could use a syringe filled with priming sugar solution to dope your bottles before filling with beer.

Hang that siphon or racking cane halfway between the trub and beer level, lower as the level drops. Use an inverter tippy on the end to direct the flow to come from above.
You could even tie a piece of nylon mesh or voile around the bottom of the cane to keep suspended hop particles out.

Coopers do have carbonation drops specifically for this thing. I'm not too fussed about exact carbonation, as long as it's not flat and as long as I don't have gushers it's OK.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm just thinking I'll get a lot of sediment in the bottles if I bottled from the fermenter.

Everything should sink to the bottom, including your dry hops. You may need to swirl that bucket during the dry hop period to submerge floating dry hop material. It does no good lying on top, it won't extract well, and gets oxidized.

Just don't stick that racking cane all the way down in the trub layer:

Hang that siphon or racking cane halfway between the trub and beer level, lower as the level drops. Use an inverter tippy on the end to direct the flow to come from above.
You could even tie a piece of nylon mesh or voile around the bottom of the cane to keep suspended hop particles out.