Best overall gun... Target, hunting, home defense, shtf

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100-200 yards for a shotgun load? Not unless you're shooting slugs, and sabots from a rifled barrel at the far end of that range.

EDIT: Ahhh, in hindsight perhaps you mean reasonably safe range, not effective range.
 
I have the Remington SP-10, and it does a really good job at knocking down a lot of the recoil. I'd say it's no worse than a pump 12ga, but then again, when you have all that adrenaline going through your system with a bird coming in, everything seems to feel a lot lighter. Not something I'd take to the range to shoot trap and skeet, but I have buddies that shoot the same shotgun for geese and they say the added recoil over a 12ga is definitely worth the price for the extra payload.

Yeah, under actual field conditions you don't usually sense the recoil as much. However, on a bench as in shooting slugs, there isn't much worse than that. Even some pretty big rifles don't have the felt recoil as max load shotgun slugs off the bench.
 
100-200 yards for a shotgun load? Not unless you're shooting slugs, and sabots from a rifled barrel at the far end of that range.

EDIT: Ahhh, in hindsight perhaps you mean reasonably safe range, not effective range.
Yes, that's the range where you aren't likely bust a window or something with bird shot. Even less room is needed to prevent doing a person real damage, as long they have glasses on. I think our agreed upon range for peppering someone when dove hunting as teenagers was ~70yds. The time and distance is just about right to only have time to turn around and duck your head, but still sting through jeans. Yes, we were stupid, but it probably hurt less than paintball, though I wouldn't know.
 
Yeah, under actual field conditions you don't usually sense the recoil as much. However, on a bench as in shooting slugs, there isn't much worse than that. Even some pretty big rifles don't have the felt recoil as max load shotgun slugs off the bench.

True, but it depends on the gun; brand of ammo and how sensitive the shooter is to recoil. The 2 3/4" slugs and buckshot aren't bad I don't think. Hornady SST slugs were the hardest to shoot recoil wise IMHO.
 
Guess I'm not sure what that point is. I figured it was assumed talking relatively apples to apples (as in same shooter, relatively same weight of gun, etc.) not a comparison of extremes in variables.

FWIW, I used to shoot Win Partition Gold sabots out of my Rem 870 with rifled slug barrel. Hardest kicking gun I've ever shot. 385 grain bullet at 1900fps. Ouch.

OTOH, 3" mag max load punkin' ball slugs out of the Mossberg 500 smooth bore were pretty brutal too.
 
Guess I'm not sure what that point is. I figured it was assumed talking relatively apples to apples (as in same shooter, relatively same weight of gun, etc.) not a comparison of extremes in variables.

FWIW, I used to shoot Win Partition Gold sabots out of my Rem 870 with rifled slug barrel. Hardest kicking gun I've ever shot. 385 grain bullet at 1900fps. Ouch.

OTOH, 3" mag max load punkin' ball slugs out of the Mossberg 500 smooth bore were pretty brutal too.

The gun and load does make a difference I think. But those Winchesters sounds pretty nasty.

A 7lb pump shotgun with a John Wayne edition hard rubber recoil pad will feel like it kicks a lot harder than a 7lb gas operated autoloader with a good recoil pad when shooting the same load.

The Hornady SST slugs felt the worst out of my Ithaca 37 with a rifled barrel. The Remington copper solid premiers I shoot aren't soft shooters by any means but they have a manageable amount of recoil. There is a difference in muzzle velocity of about 300 fps but both are premium sabot slug loads and both will do the job on a deer.

3 inch slugs out my 870 with POS hard rubber recoil pad feel pretty brutal also.
 
Target = whichever gets you in the bullseye.

Hunting = whatever size brings down your prey

Home defense = the most intimidating sound ever is the "cha-chuu" of a pump action shotgun being chambered.

Pistol = .357 magnum can shoot heavy loads and can also shoot lighter cheaper .38 special ammo.
 
yall are watching to many movies. The action of a shotgun is not going to scare away anyone thats actually posing a threat to you. Its going to give away your position. It might scare a thief away, but hes not really a threat to your life.
 
yall are watching to many movies. The action of a shotgun is not going to scare away anyone thats actually posing a threat to you. Its going to give away your position. It might scare a thief away, but hes not really a threat to your life.


This. Play the Cha Ching game and the next sound you'll hear will be the shot that kills you. The ONLY place that works is on TV or movies.
 
yall are watching to many movies. The action of a shotgun is not going to scare away anyone thats actually posing a threat to you. Its going to give away your position. It might scare a thief away, but hes not really a threat to your life.
Isn't dealing with robbers/burglars the nature of home defense, unless you believe in the zombie apocalypse? Many burglars, if caught in the act, will run if you just mention that you have a gun, even if they are armed.
If you are banging some other guy's wife, and he is coming to hunt you down, I wouldn't consider that in the normal range of home defense needs.
 
This. Play the Cha Ching game and the next sound you'll hear will be the shot that kills you. The ONLY place that works is on TV or movies.
Your description of the consequences sounds more like movie fiction than the original premise.

I had a friend keep a burglar (that he couldn't even see) frozen in a room until the cops arrived, just by cocking a 30-30 at the top of the stairs. The burglar wasn't armed, but even an armed one would know he is at a disadvantage, and look for a way to get out. The smart move is to give him an exit.
 
If I was creeping someone's house and heard a shotgun action I think I'd be exiting the nearest window or door. It's surprising that y'all would feel differently. I guess it would depend on the perp's motive... If dude is just looking for drugs and money then yeah I'd bet dollars to donuts they would get out. If dude is looking to murder, he may be a little less deterred.

If dude already had a bead on ones location then yeah the next sound would be his shot. But nobody knows my house the way I do. And I'm pretty confident that I could intercept him.

And in the case of home defense I think it would also be safe to say that that the average person would be shaking uncontrollably from adrenaline surge and find it hard to aim. A shotty spray offers much wider margin of error still resulting in a hit. Don't cha think?

Regardless of hypothetical gotchas my Bull Mastiff would probably be enough to get most crims away from my property.
 
Isn't dealing with robbers/burglars the nature of home defense, unless you believe in the zombie apocalypse? Many burglars, if caught in the act, will run if you just mention that you have a gun, even if they are armed.
If you are banging some other guy's wife, and he is coming to hunt you down, I wouldn't consider that in the normal range of home defense needs.

Your mistake is assigning rational thought to someone that has already decided its OK to invade your property and take your stuff with no payment.

I prefer not to lump them in with "rational" thinking like you are. My primary "handy" HD weapon is a pistol, but if it were a shotgun, I would not be "racking the slide" to scare them away, it just doesn't seem like there are a lot of positives to it.

To the original question, nothing does ALL of those things really well, but the most versatile is the 12 guage though, because all the loads you can use from smallest birds (#8 shot in 2 3/4" shells) to Kodiak size bear (Full bore rifled slugs) to home defense (00 buckshot or slugs). Use with slugs is range limiting, and you wouldn't really want to "target shoot" with it.
 
If I was creeping someone's house and heard a shotgun action I think I'd be exiting the nearest window or door. It's surprising that y'all would feel differently. I guess it would depend on the perp's motive... If dude is just looking for drugs and money then yeah I'd bet dollars to donuts they would get out. If dude is looking to murder, he may be a little less deterred.

If dude already had a bead on ones location then yeah the next sound would be his shot. But nobody knows my house the way I do. And I'm pretty confident that I could intercept him.

Yet, they could be on drugs and not thinking clearly if the are actually looking for drug money, no?

Why not just shoot him when you need to? Why give him a chance to find you first?

And in the case of home defense I think it would also be safe to say that that the average person would be shaking uncontrollably from adrenaline surge and find it hard to aim. A shotty spray offers much wider margin of error still resulting in a hit. Don't cha think?

You should look up how much "spray" you are going to get at typical HD distances, I doubt its as much as you think. (probably the size of your hand at most).
 
Why not just shoot him when you need to? Why give him a chance to find you first?

Haha!! Who said anything about letting an intruder find me!?? Allow me to clarify: no matter what entrance the guy came in, I would be able to circumvent his path and take him down before he even had a plan of action. When it comes to my family being at risk there would be no 'hide and seek' as you are assuming.


You would compare the (maybe) 3/4 inch entrance wound of ...? to a "hand size" wound of a shotgun spray. And still prefer the 3/4 inch hole!??

Moral of the story: as many home defenders as there are, is also as many weapons of choice.
 
You might be surprised at what one can do with a slug these days. We're well beyond the can't hit the broad side of a barn at 50 paces.

Not saying youre going to win a high level target match against a target rifle with a slug gun, but even a relatively mundane slug gun with rifled barrel and sabots can group 3-4 inches at 100 yds, maybe better with a well-matched load and a well-tuned gun.
 
You would compare the (maybe) 3/4 inch entrance wound of ...? to a "hand size" wound of a shotgun spray. And still prefer the 3/4 inch hole!??

Depends. A though and though 3/4" hole might well be more deadly than a hand-sized wound with only a few inches of penetration.

Regardless though, that didn't seem to be reason for the rebuttal. Your point seemed to be an implication that a shotgun pattern will be wide thus mitigating the need for aim. At home defense range that isn't necessarily so.
 
Your mistake is assigning rational thought to someone that has already decided its OK to invade your property and take your stuff with no payment.
Your mistake is believing that someone willing to break into your house is somehow devoid of all rational thought. Most are looking to get in and out quickly without any confrontation. Most are not armed, and many when they are have it merely as a visual deterrent, and do not have it loaded. The most irrational robbers to the average person are the 'home invasion' guys, who are actually the most rational, since they know to get rid of witnesses.

I prefer not to lump them in with "rational" thinking like you are. My primary "handy" HD weapon is a pistol, but if it were a shotgun, I would not be "racking the slide" to scare them away, it just doesn't seem like there are a lot of positives to it.
The positives are that it is a lot more convincing than putting a finger in your pocket and pointing it at them. If you are in the 'make my day' camp, it may not make sense. If you are just wanting to avoid confrontation if at all possible, then it does.

to home defense (00 buckshot or slugs).
What movies have you been watching? OO and slugs are among the worst loads for home defense. As mentioned before, smaller shot is beneficial if an errant shot goes where it isn't intended. Also, in the confines of a home (<20 ft), any load will suffice, and <10ft any load behaves essentially like a slug assuming the barrel still has a choke present, and not much different if it doesn't. It's still easier to aim than a pistol.
 
Ok.... I was just saying that some people may be very calm during a home invasion and be able to crack off a very well aimed shot. Others may prefer to have the large margin of error if they were in an episode of adrenaline rush and finding it difficult to stay calm and aim proper.
 
Miss my M-1 Carbine ... a fun gun in the sun if there ever was one.
But had problems with jamming ... finally got rid of it.

Had a Remington 1100 3" Magnum that was a great all-round gun. (also shot 2-3/4)
 
Ruger 10-22 will cover two if not three of your criteria. For shtf have both 10-22 and winchester defender mod 1300. 8+1 in 2 3/4. 7+1 in 3" magnum. lots of aftermarket for both of these when the current frenzy dies down
 
I am looking into the savage 24. I like the idea of a .223 over a 20 gauge. There is also the 22/410, 3030/16. I figure if I'm out small game and a hog comes out I can have a slug, with the butt accessory you can have bird, buck, slug all within reach.

Just a thought.
 
Ok.... I was just saying that some people may be very calm during a home invasion and be able to crack off a very well aimed shot. Others may prefer to have the large margin of error if they were in an episode of adrenaline rush and finding it difficult to stay calm and aim proper.

I understand, but the point is one may not have as large a margin of error as one thinks.
 
I am looking into the savage 24. I like the idea of a .223 over a 20 gauge. There is also the 22/410, 3030/16. I figure if I'm out small game and a hog comes out I can have a slug, with the butt accessory you can have bird, buck, slug all within reach.

Just a thought.

I have an old bolt action JC Higgins 16ga, Took some game in its day, but I'd not buy anything in 16ga these days for practical use. 12ga or 20ga is the ticket.
 
I'm still saying a judge is great for home defense shoots any 45 Cal or 410 shells works good for birds at somewhat close range too
 
Isn't dealing with robbers/burglars the nature of home defense, unless you believe in the zombie apocalypse? Many burglars, if caught in the act, will run if you just mention that you have a gun, even if they are armed.
If you are banging some other guy's wife, and he is coming to hunt you down, I wouldn't consider that in the normal range of home defense needs.

To me, anyone thats not out to hurt me, is not a threat. I feel the defense means protecting myself, not monetary items. I have insurance for that. Don't get me wrong, if someone breaks in, first ill grab my pistol, go to a secure part of the home and call the police. If the intruder walks into the area I'm in I'll have a loaded firearm ready without making noise to give away my position.

Not saying you are wrong, just have a different opinion on what I am willing to use force on.
 
To me, anyone thats not out to hurt me, is not a threat. I feel the defense means protecting myself, not monetary items. I have insurance for that. Don't get me wrong, if someone breaks in, first ill grab my pistol, go to a secure part of the home and call the police. If the intruder walks into the area I'm in I'll have a loaded firearm ready without making noise to give away my position.

Not saying you are wrong, just have a different opinion on what I am willing to use force on.
I think you are muddling things a bit. If an intruder has randomly targeted your house, most will leave quickly if they are made aware that someone there is armed. If they don't, then you start setting up for an encounter.

If an intruder happens upon someone without any means of defense, it is a wild guess as to what he would do. Some would still run, others may come up with new ideas. That is a prime example of when having a weapon may turn things in your favor, especially if you let it be known that you have one.

The whole point of cycling a pump shotgun, isn't to wait until the guy can see you and have a shot, your are supposed to do it from a protected area to demonstrate that you do indeed have a gun, and not just your finger in your pocket. You seem to be saying that if you cycle a pump, say behind a closed door, that is more dangerous than waiting silently until they enter the room where you are? Most criminals would never open a door where they heard a shotgun being loaded, or any gun for that matter. The ones that would, can then be introduced to the slide trombone. The danger is that if you don't announce, and then something goes wrong like a misfire, you have missed an opportunity to avoid the situation altogether.

This is exactly what my friend did, and also what I have read about how to best handle an intruder in your home. Most of the other alternatives fall into the category of the 'make my day' types. I would rather them leave.

Again, if you have someone that is specifically targeting you, that is a different scenario, and one you presumably have advanced knowledge of, and also understand you may be targeted almost anywhere, not just the home. Although, even a determined attacker will likely think twice before continuing, if they have been made aware that the victim is armed, with confirmation, from a concealed location. Better yet, don't bang some other dude's wife.
 
I understand, but the point is one may not have as large a margin of error as one thinks.

Valid argument. Go to the range, or set up a moving target on a pendulum and see how many times you can hit a weighted pie pan-size target moving at 10 yards (30 feet) with a pistol, or a rifle.. then try a shotgun. Or you yourself strife side to side firing at a still target with a variety of weapons, I think you will be more successful with a shotty. A 4 inch hole is over 500% larger than a 3/4 inch hole.

Since we are speaking in hypotheticals anyway... If a crim makes it past my moat full of ale and gators. And approaches my house without falling in the pits with punji sticks. And still makes it past a swarm of radio controlled Africanized bees. Also gets by the trained monkeys with curare darts and my bull mastiff with mechanize-assist jaws of death.. And somehow gets into my house I would rather be waiting with my semi-auto Verona 12 gauge, which is what I keep near my bed. :rockin:

I think it's safe to say a man (or woman) should protect his self and family with whatever weapon they feel most confident and accurate with.
 
snip

This is exactly what my friend did, and also what I have read about how to best handle an intruder in your home. Most of the other alternatives fall into the category of the 'make my day' types. I would rather them leave.
snip


Can you tell us where you read this? I have also read that alternating bird shot and rock salt in a shotgun is the best thing for home defense, but is REALLY not a good idea in my opinion...
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned but look at Freedom Arms revolvers in .454 casull. Some of the best made handguns in the world and good for hunting and self defense as long as you're not looking to concealed carry.
 
Since we are speaking in hypotheticals anyway... If a crim makes it past my moat full of ale and gators.
Since they are living in beer, are the gators sloppy drunks, or mean drunks? It would make a significant difference in a crim's decision.
 
Dam I went today they had 4 ar15s so I look at one and he said only nj residents, rrr so I'm going to buy a 12g this fri when he said there getting more in. Then when I save up the money a remington 700 in .223 or .308 not sure yet
 
Can you tell us where you read this? I have also read that alternating bird shot and rock salt in a shotgun is the best thing for home defense, but is REALLY not a good idea in my opinion...
I don't know why the need for color, but I will join in. Is color the new emoticon?

I did not state it as a way to say that if you read it, it is true. You can always find someone with an opinion to agree with yours, doesn't make it right. The described 'plan of action' is a fairly commonly recommended one, and is mostly common sense. For those who are fans of those comical guns shows on TV these days that have people doing Seal Team 6 building clearing exercises as if that is how you should go about defending your home, I am not sure any info to the contrary would make any difference.

The rock salt is definitely from the movies. About the only it does is limit your range, at very close ranges it won't be much different than bird shot. On top of that, you aren't going to find salt loads at the store. Is somebody going to recommend 'dime' hand loads next.
 
And man did ammo get expensive I rember paying $15 for a brick of 22lr now 48.76$
 
The rock salt is definitely from the movies.

Not true, Union Pacific Railroad Police use Rock Salt in their shotguns to keep hobo's and bums our of box cars and off Railroad property. And yes they are a real police force equivalent to state police in 21 of 23 states in which they operate.
 
I don't know why the need for color, but I will join in. Is color the new emoticon?

I did not state it as a way to say that if you read it, it is true. You can always find someone with an opinion to agree with yours, doesn't make it right. The described 'plan of action' is a fairly commonly recommended one, and is mostly common sense. For those who are fans of those comical guns shows on TV these days that have people doing Seal Team 6 building clearing exercises as if that is how you should go about defending your home, I am not sure any info to the contrary would make any difference.

The rock salt is definitely from the movies. About the only it does is limit your range, at very close ranges it won't be much different than bird shot. On top of that, you aren't going to find salt loads at the store. Is somebody going to recommend 'dime' hand loads next.

(I didn't use color, unsure what you mean)

I would just like to see one semi-qualified "defense instructor" like Ayoob or Clint Smith (anyone similar is fine) that says this is a good idea.
 
Not true, Union Pacific Railroad Police use Rock Salt in their shotguns to keep hobo's and bums our of box cars and off Railroad property. And yes they are a real police force equivalent to state police in 21 of 23 states in which they operate.
I am sure someone has used it before. It was more a comment on it being referenced in the movies much more than real world use, or portraying the real world consequences of it. Rock salt is just as dangerous as shot as some ranges, and bird shot is just as 'safe' as salt at some ranges. And I highly doubt the RR's insurance company currently allows them to pepper people with salt loads simply for loitering on their property. Maybe 'back in the day', or even 'in the movies'.
 
Damn skippy on prices. I was just outback with the ruger air hawk .177. Fun and way more affordable.
 

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