Best hops for bittering only

[Miraculix]

Hi guys!

Title says it all, what is your favourite bittering, 60 min addition hop?

I guess high alpha and low cost would be best. What are the "state of the art" bittering hops?

Thanks,

M

 

[PADave]

I almost always use Warrior or Magnum.

 

[STMF]

I use Magnum or CTZ, depending on the beer.

 

[soccerdad]

I use Magnum or CTZ, depending on the beer.

Agree

 

[thehaze]

Magnum, which is very clean, Columbus or Bravo ( also good for dry hopping ).

 

[Miraculix]

I use Magnum or CTZ, depending on the beer.

For which type do you choose which of those two and why?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Title says it all, what is your favourite bittering, 60 min addition hop?

I guess high alpha and low cost would be best. What are the "state of the art" bittering hops?

Me personally, I tend to use EKG just because I have a house rule that every beer I make has to include EKG as a nod to my connections with Kent. It's a little bit extravagant but I do like the quality of the bittering you get from British hops - just like Fulllers swear by the quality of the Target/Challenger/Northdown combination.

Magnum, Warrior or CTZ are all fine - but if you're shopping in the UK then you probably want Admiral, which is a descendant of Northdown and Challenger and is great value at a quid an ounce - cheaper than the imports and in most cases higher alpha at 16.7% in the 2016 cones. There's also some good deals at the moment on Pilgrim at around 12-13% alpha.

If you really want alpha, you might have to track down Polaris which isn't easily available in the UK but which supposedly goes over 20% alpha. It's got a big and slightly weird oil profile (very minty), so I don't know what it's like in a beer.

Another option being used by some commercial brewers, particularly in NEIPAs, is alpha extract. For me it's a bit one-dimensional as the only source of alpha, but it's a really useful tool to have just to tweak a beer that's missed its IBU target thanks to old hops or whatever. Cost works out at about the same as hops, 1ml adds about 4 IBU to 5 gallons.

 

[soccerdad]

For which type do you choose which of those two and why?

Oversimplification, but I tend to use Magnum as a buttering charge in anything European. Both origin and style .. German, Belgian, English .. Kolsch, Weisen, Pilener. At the same time, there are a number of one hop recipes that might include something like Czech Saaz and nothing else. I have always found the marketing material to be honest and true .. smooth bittering, descended from Hallertau, plays well with Fuggles, Golding, Mittelfreu, etc.

Columbus has more of a bite, but not a lot, and I tend to use it in American Ales. Pale ale, IPA, Ambers, American wheat, American brown.

Oversimplification but held to 2 paragraphs

 

[Miraculix]

Thx for the inside on the British side of hops northern. Really appreciated as I am living in the South of the UK, so I will look out for the ones you mentioned.

 

[Miraculix]

And Thx for your inside as well soccer dad, definitely something I am going to think about.

I am still quite new and I did not use any hops particularly just for bittering. I just used what was there, let it be citra or sorachi ace. I basically used what had the highest alpha content from the hops I bought for aroma.

But now I am getting more and more into the less hop flavoured, more malt forward beers like dry ales and Stouts and suddenly the bittering hop becomes a topic on its own.

 

[65C]

I really can't taste diff on the 60 min additions so I just buy cheapest but no more than a year old - which seems to be Target and Northern Brewer quite a lot

 

[Miraculix]

I really can't taste diff on the 60 min additions so I just buy cheapest but no more than a year old - which seems to be Target and Northern Brewer quite a lot

I agree, I also do not taste differences at 60min.

Although I actually might do with sorachi ace, but I am not sure if my mind plays tricks on me with that one. I somehow have the feeling that it leaves a bit of vanilla, but again, I don't know if I can trust my senses with this one.

 

[soccerdad]

I agree, I also do not taste differences at 60min.

Although I actually might do with sorachi ace, .

Chinook too. I use it some, but it has a harsher bitterness. It is not my 'go to', but more my 'sometimes.'

 

[patthebrewer]

There are so many potential answers to this question....Magnum is a really good one though. I love it so much...I grow it....so I guess my answer is prejudiced

 

[Miraculix]

There are so many potential answers to this question....Magnum is a really good one though. I love it so much...I grow it....so I guess my answer is prejudiced

Of course you are right, there are way too many possibilities. I just wanted to see if I can get an overview over the most commonly used ones. I espacially wanted to find one that has zero charcter, only bitterness.

Magnum seems to fit that role pretty well, doesn't it?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

There was once a prevalent opinion that the measure by which to define a bittering hops perceived "bite" or "smoothness" characteristic is directly related to the hops percentage of Co-humulone. More Co-humulone as a percentage of a hops total oils leads to more of a perceived bite, and less Co-humulone leads to more of a perceived smoothness. Magnum seems to fall about smack in the middle of the pack with regard to its percentage of Co-humulone. I'm not sure if the Co-humulone relationship to smooth or biting bitterness has ever been definitively verified.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The harshness of cohumulone is one of those great myths - it dates back to a single study that failed to allow for the greater utilisation of cohumulone, in effect it asked people which was more bitter, 21IBU of humulone or 36IBU of cohumulone? Not surprisingly they said cohumulone.

See eg this article from Barth-Haas.

If you just want bitterness, then you should probably use extract - but as I say, I don't particularly like it on its own as I _want_ those extra characteristics and complexity that comes from hops.

 

[z-bob]

Magnum is supposed to be good; I have an unopened package in my freezer that I bought on sale 2 years ago I'm currently using up a pound of Nugget.

I've brewed several times with just a single addition of a high alpha dual-purpose hop (Sorachi Ace, Sterling, Dr Rudi) at 30 minutes and those were good, but they were not hoppy beer styles.

 

[Upthewazzu]

Depends on the style. I've used Nugget, Magnum, Columbus, and Warrior for IPA's. Perle for my lager/Kolsch. German Tradition and Glacier for darker beers like porter and stout.

 

[lump42]

I've been using Horizon hops. It's supposed to be a clean bittering hop but also have a citrus and floral aroma. I have only used it early in the boil and it has worked well.

 

[bradleypariah]

I espacially wanted to find one that has zero charcter, only bitterness.

I have couple thoughts to pose to everyone here.

What I've been told (and what I've read elsewhere):
After a 60-minute boil, your choice of hop will not impart very unique flavor characteristics. You will achieve generic bitterness, but that's it. The characteristics like "earth", "spice", "pine", "evergreen", or "citrus" that make a hop unique will be almost completely lost. These floral characteristics are only possible to be captured by late-addition hops, dry hops, and hop stands. Bitterness can be achieved by any hop, and most people simply choose high alpha acid hops for bittering because it gets the job done with minimal plant debris and cost.

There are some plant-like characteristics that remain after a 60-minute boil, but they too are generic in nature. Thus, ironically enough, if you use a low alpha acid hop like Willamette, but use a lot of it, it will in fact taste different than a smaller amount of magnum, but not because Willamettes don't taste like Magnums. It will simply be due to the abundance of plant debris in your boil. To be specific, it won't actually taste like Willamette hops in particular, it will just taste like "a lot of hops".

Have any of you ever heard this?

What I wonder (any Brulosophy people reading this?):
Let's say you boil two batches of identical recipes, except for their bittering hop. One beer you use Chinook (an evergreen hop) and the other you use Galena (a citrus hop), both of which have an AA of 13. After that, if all your other ingredients are exactly the same (grain bill, late-addition hop strains, dry hop strains, yeast, etc.), would you pass a triangle test as to which beer was different?

 

[dyqik]

For zero character, only bitterness, go with CO2 hop extract.

It's now my default for bittering.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Brulosophy did an experiment on high cohumulone vs. low cohumulone bittering hops, choosing 2 hops with the same percent AA's but vastly different quantities of cohumulone. The testers proved that they could reliably identify them as being different, but in the end, out of the 12 that got it right, when asked as to their personal preference, 2 didn't care, 5 liked the more biting high cohumulone hopped beer, and 5 liked the somewhat smoother low cohumulone hopped beer. So it was a wash, but they were different. This may be a better test than the one that got the ball rolling. ???

http://brulosophy.com/2016/03/07/bittering-hops-high-vs-low-cohumulone-exbeeriment-results/

 

[pshankstar]

I've really enjoyed Warrior as a clean neutral bittering hop. Bravo is another good one that I have also used as a dry hop too. Nugget and CTZ I've bittered with and have been happy.

I have a pound of Summit but haven't used it yet, but Beersmith says Warrior is a substitute for Summit.

 

[Morrey]

For zero character, only bitterness, go with CO2 hop extract.

It's now my default for bittering.

I was wondering why CO2 hop extracts took so long to be brought up. I love the CTZ hop extract from Yakima. I have used up almost a full 100 gram can making up my own hop shots. At 61.1AA per mL, it only takes 3 or 4mL in a normal beer to give you the bittering addition you need. No vegetal matter to filter and muss with, plus the addition is very smooth and nice on the palate. Winner.

 

[bradleypariah]

Brulosophy did an experiment on high cohumulone vs. low cohumulone bittering hops...

Oh! I hadn't heard about this one. Well, kinda answers my question, but not to their findings exactly. 12 out of 23 people is staggeringly low, IMO. Think if someone gave you an oatmeal cookie and two chocolate chip cookies. Can you fathom getting it wrong? -or one made with sugar and the other two brown sugar.

That's crazy to me! I think there are *huge* implications that just under half the testers couldn't tell which was which. While statistics may say that 12 out of 23 is significant, I'd think the difference is negligible. Not non-existent, mind you, but negligible. Also, if you didn't have the beers side by side to compare, would they be able to really notice a difference from beer to beer a day apart? I'd bet not. Especially considering half the people couldn't even tell them apart in the first place.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Oh! I hadn't heard about this one. Well, kinda answers my question, but not to their findings exactly. 12 out of 23 people is staggeringly low, IMO. Think if someone gave you an oatmeal cookie and two chocolate chip cookies. Can you fathom getting it wrong? -or one made with sugar and the other two brown sugar.

That's crazy to me! I think there are *huge* implications that just under half the testers couldn't tell which was which. While statistics may say that 12 out of 23 is significant, I'd think the difference is negligible. Not non-existent, mind you, but negligible. Also, if you didn't have the beers side by side to compare, would they be able to really notice a difference from beer to beer a day apart? I'd bet not. Especially considering half the people couldn't even tell them apart in the first place.

If they were randomly guessing and not perceiving anything, then only 7 or 8 would have guessed the odd bittering hopped beer from among 3 samples. 23 x 1/3 = 7.67 people. The fact that 12 out of 23 picked correctly is statistically significant.

 

[bradleypariah]

The fact that 12 out of 23 picked correctly is statistically significant.

There's lies, there's damn lies, and then there's statistics.

Alright, I'm always down for a good debate. I say again:

Think if someone gave you an oatmeal cookie and two chocolate chip cookies. Can you fathom getting it wrong?

Can you tell apple juice and orange juice apart while blindfolded? Think of what it would take for you personally to be unable to tell apart two beverages. Now think of the type of people Brulosophy knows, and try to soak in the incomprehensible concept that nearly half the people in their circle got it wrong. They've said time and time again, these people don't have "sucky palates". If two beers tasted different... at all... how could someone get it wrong? When nearly half the people get it wrong, that speaks volumes. "p values" be damned. You don't luckily or accidentally get something wrong. You can't. Either you can perceive a difference, in which case you will get it right, or you're guessing. Everyone who gets it wrong is significant. Everyone who got it right might have been guessing. The only way you can get it wrong, is if you cannot tell a difference. Conversely, you can get it right by being right, and by pure coincidence. This is why one person over half means practically nothing to me. How on earth would basically half the participants get it wrong?

If they were randomly guessing {...} then only 7 or 8 would have guessed the odd bittering hopped beer

Consider the possibility that 7 or 8 were lucky guesses, and that only four or five guessed right. You can't tell me that's not possible. He even said himself about the difference between the two, "I mean it when I say they smelled and tasted exactly the same, the only difference I picked up was in the harshness of the bitterness." Of the people who guess right, they were literally divided evenly which one they thought was better.

This lends itself to my original point, what I've been told for years, you cannot perceive a flavor difference between different hops strands when they're boiled for 60 minutes. That's the point of this thread. So which hops lend bittering only, with little to no flavor? Answer: All of them! The bittering might be different, but the flavor will not.

On a lucky day, barely over half the people you give the beer to might be able to tell two beers apart if you served them both back to back... so.. uhhh... just don't do that! :cross:

 

[jerbrew]

I have used bravo, ctz, and millennium as bittering hops, bravo and millennium bought specifically for it. These are what I’ve used for my “hoppy” styles. All have been good but I know now that I like millennium as something neutral, ctz if I’m using it also for flavor as well, and bravo if I’m going super citrus/grapefruit, essentially if I’m not using ctz.

If I’m doing something Belgian, English, or German I use whatever I’m using for flavor/aroma sorachi ace, willamette/fuggle and hallertaue, respectively, as an example.

 

[MaxStout]

For hoppy US styles, I've been on a Citra kick. But I recently tried a sleeper, called Idaho 7, which I got from Farmhouse. Works great for bittering or dry-hopping. Did a single hop APA with it, and it was fantastic.
For UK/Irish styles, EKG.
For German styles, Hallertau.

 

[Miraculix]

Wow, so much great input, thanks guys!

I agree with Bradley, regarding the brulosophy significance. There might be a small difference but I think it is neglectable.

I mainly asked for clean bittering hops, because I often do only 30min boils, and I wanted to see if it is possible to get the same clean result I could get from a 60min boil... Should have said this before maybe

Extract is definitely a possibility, but I somehow just don't like the idea. Not saying that it is bad or anything, I just like to work with whole ingredients. Just enjoy it more... But it sounds still rather interesting, will try it probably at one point, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[jmcquesten]

Another vote for Magnum. I've used it for bittering (all styles) for a few years now. Cheap and easy to buy by the lb (or kg), and very versatile.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

A bit off the subject, but once I used Magnum for flavor and aroma additions right up through flame out, and I didn't like the outcome of that experiment at all. A nasty bitterness that didn't even age out. Not at all smooth.

 

[jmcquesten]

A bit off the subject, but once I used Magnum for flavor and aroma additions right up through flame out, and I didn't like the outcome of that experiment at all. A nasty bitterness that didn't even age out.

Yeah, that's where the Hallertau comes into play. I think Magnum is just too high of an aa for a decent flavor or aroma addition.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have couple thoughts to pose to everyone here.

What I've been told (and what I've read elsewhere):
After a 60-minute boil, your choice of hop will not impart very unique flavor characteristics. You will achieve generic bitterness, but that's it. The characteristics like "earth", "spice", "pine", "evergreen", or "citrus" that make a hop unique will be almost completely lost...

You're rather missing the point (although that "almost completely lost" does mean that some flavour compounds make it through and can differ) - it's not about the fruit etc flavours but the nature of the bittering itself which differs. Some hops give smooth bittering (like a lot of the classic noble hops), others give a more "jagged" bitterness (Target for instance) - there's no right or wrong, different people prefer one or the other.

As for that Brulosophy experiment - apart from the fact that the whole humulone vs cohumone thing has been discredited as a basis for bittering quality, if it's hitting the p value then you can be 95% certain there really is a difference - and the fact that half the people can't detect that difference is a whole different thing. Imagine for instance a traffic light with just one light that turns red or green. You'll find most cars will stop and start appropriately - there clearly is a difference between red and green. But some people won't. Does that mean that there's not actually much difference between red and green traffic lights - or have you got a fraction of the population with colour blindness?

Given that our sense of taste is rather underdeveloped and most people aren't used to analysing flavours - the same person who might agonise for hours over different shades of white on a paint chart might not go beyond "sweet" or "fruity" when asked about a wine. (Don't ask me how I know - she didn't last long). Your sense of taste can be massively affected by having a cold, or by the lighting and music playing. And that's before you get to the taste equivalent of colour blindness, where some people simply cannot perceive certain tastes/aromas. We're only just beginning to scratch the surface of that, whether it's smelling asparagus pee (half the population can, half have no idea what I'm talking about) or perceiving coriander/cilantro as "soapy" (about 10-15% of the population) - the biology of taste is hugely complicated.

Which is a short way of saying that any one experiment is just that - one datapoint, not proof - but at the same time you can have a real difference that is only perceived by half the population. And then even if they can perceive a difference, some of them will prefer one to the other and vice versa. This isn't clean like a physics experiment.

 

[RM-MN]

I agree, I also do not taste differences at 60min.

Although I actually might do with sorachi ace, but I am not sure if my mind plays tricks on me with that one. I somehow have the feeling that it leaves a bit of vanilla, but again, I don't know if I can trust my senses with this one.

Try using Cascade or Citra hops for bittering in a beer that should have no hop flavor. Unless your palate is dead you will notice the hop flavor carrying through with those. I often use Nugget mostly because it is available locally where the others must be ordered.

 

[Miraculix]

Try using Cascade or Citra hops for bittering in a beer that should have no hop flavor. Unless your palate is dead you will notice the hop flavor carrying through with those. I often use Nugget mostly because it is available locally where the others must be ordered.

Have not tried that, and probably won't as I do not want to ruin my unhoppy beers

Ok, there might be some flavour left from those hardcore flavour varieties. Won't use them for bittering only beers in the future! Thanks for letting me know!

 

[bradleypariah]

You're rather missing the point

I don't believe I am.

Everything you said in your post, I agree with, but you didn't really address what I'm saying, so I don't think we're on the same wavelength.
This was only one experiment, and that's why the statistical significance can still be ignored. This study has no peer review so it's all anecdotal at this point.

As far as not being able to tell apart things that other people might be able to, see if this sheds some light on my point:
The people who perceived differences in the beer really didn't know what was so different, so some of them got lucky, and they were split down the middle which one tasted better anyway. This does not call into question whether or not the beers were different. We know they were. It just barely made a difference. Give 20 people two oatmeal cookies and one chocolate chip, and 20 people will get the triangle test correctly. This means the different hops are not vastly different.

This is unlike your red/green light analogy. In beer terms, 10 people weren't sure if the light was even on or not. 11 people agreed the light was lit. Five of those people said it was red, five of them said it was green, one of them thought it was brown. This is absolute garbage data. If you weren't there to witness this traffic intersection yourself, you'd have no idea how to extrapolate this without further testing. All we can gather is that the data barely leans toward the light being illuminated.
Based on this data, do you have safe driving conditions?? Are these effective lights? Ready to install them across town?

When you have to split hairs over the taste of beers with "statistical significance", that should raise a red flag. It doesn't mean no one can tell a difference, but OP might not, and I don't think I would either, so my hop choice is unimportant to me.

Furthermore, let's say you had an IPA one day, and a stout the next. You'd be able to tell, from memory, that the two beers were dissimilar. If you drank two IPAs with different bittering hops a day apart, I'd be willing to wager you couldn't tell which was which. You'd like them both, and you'd only possibly prefer one over the other if you tasted them back to back. Since most people don't brew two batches at once, this will never come up, so the difference is negligible, because you'd never know if you're drinking the beer you "liked" or the one you "liked almost as much". You'd drink two or three of them, dulling your tastebuds anyway, sit by the fire and have a great night.

You can just safely buy whatever bittering hop is on special at the store, and roll with it without fearing a detrimental change to the taste of your beer. It'll be fine. RDWHAHB applies.