best grain for foam?

[DavidWood2115]

Yes I have. But I doubt it's the dark roasted malts driving that head. More likely the unmalted barley they use.

Sorry @MaxStout, but if I have to choose between Charlie Bamforth's opinion and yours, I'm going with Charlie's every time. He wrote the book on foam (and several others).

 

[MaxStout]

Sorry @MaxStout, but if I have to choose between Charlie Bamford's opinion and yours, I'm going with Charlie's every time. He wrote the book on foam (and several others).

Bless your heart.

 

[G_robertus]

My understanding on tetra is that it's great for foam formation and retention, but can give bad foam aesthetics, in particular iceberg-like clumps.

I don't think sugar (or corn or rice) are bad for foam in and of themselves. It's more that they raise ABV without adding any soluble proteins, and ethanol is definitely foam-negative. So an all-malt barleywine can (sometimes) have decent foam, because there's a ton of protein to offset the ton of alcohol, but a similar-ABV tripel brewed with sugar adjuncts is likely to be worse in the foam department.

I haven't noticed clumps, but I don't have that much experience with it yet. I also tend to use just a tiny amount. Perhaps that it also has to do with the initial properties of your beer, i.e. if your foam looks like soda to begin with it won't improve the looks.

My comment on rice, sugar and corn was more about the fermentation qualities they have. Less protein causes two things: less protein for foam formation and a greater tendency to create higher alcohols (C/N ratio). Higher alcohols are worse for foam then ethanol and are also involved with ester formation. I don't know whether esters are foam negative as well. I have noticed that beers with corn and sugar tend to have less retention compared to full barley beers (or at least in my experience).

 

[mac_1103]

...if I have to choose between Charlie Bamford's opinion and yours, I'm going with Charlie's every time...

How about choosing between a misunderstanding of Charlie's opinion and a correct understanding of someone else's?

 

[AlexKay]

Ok, I spent a bit of time rereading Foam, and then I skimmed Combe’s and Ang’s Ph.D. theses. Ang’s thesis in particular, shows that beer brewed with dark crystal (I believe either 75 or 120L) has worse foam. He attributes this to lipids in crystal malt, and extraction and separation of lipids from water extracts show the lipid levels are pretty high all the way from Carapils and Carafoam to very dark crystal. Of course, “more investigation is warranted” and all that. But my conclusions are:

• There is some indirect evidence that crystal malts, across the board, are net foam negative.
• The efficacy of Carapils and similar malts has little or no grounding in the academic brewing literature.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Thanks to all who voted and commented! The one beer I made with the most disappointing foam, was a belgian quad, that only had pilsner and pale malts in it, plus D-180 candi-syrup (the real-deal brand). It foamed up nice enough at first pour, but disappeared very quickly. I really enjoyed the flavor of that beer (I purposely fermented cooler than recommended to avoid over-the-top fruity-tootiness), and want to make it again, this time with better foam, and from what I've gathered from this thread, some flaked wheat seems like the way to go.

 

[AlexKay]

How about choosing between a misunderstanding of Charlie's opinion and a correct understanding of someone else's?

I’m going to have to side with @DavidWood2115 on this one. Charlie has been pretty emphatic that black malts give superior foam (a quick Google confirms this), and Foam says that the malting process removes lipids
(and so malt is more likely to be net foam positive than unmalted grain.)

Guinness is kind of the perfect foam storm: low ABV, roasted malts, nitrogen, and high hop bitterness.

(Though Grodziskie — low ABV, all wheat malt, moderate bitterness, and very high carbonation — might give it a run for its money.)

 

[AlexKay]

Thanks to all who voted and commented! The one beer I made with the most disappointing foam, was a belgian quad, that only had pilsner and pale malts in it, plus D-180 candi-syrup (the real-deal brand). It foamed up nice enough at first pour, but disappeared very quickly. I really enjoyed the flavor of that beer (I purposely fermented cooler than recommended to avoid over-the-top fruity-tootiness), and want to make it again, this time with better foam, and from what I've gathered from this thread, some flaked wheat seems like the way to go.

Wheat malt would be better. And some zinc at packaging (2 ppm) couldn’t hurt, if you’re feeling adventurous.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Wheat malt would be better. And some zinc at packaging (2 ppm) couldn’t hurt, if you’re feeling adventurous.

Added a pound of "Briess Red Wheat Malt" to my shopping cart, thanks! As for zinc... not feeling that adventurous yet!

Thoughts on Midnight Wheat for foam? I've got a pound or two of that hiding somewhere in the basement freezer.

 

[Slim M]

Man I don’t know what this means or why but the best foam I’ve ever gotten is when I used Best Maltz Heidelberg as a base in light colored beers.

I also get pretty good foam in some of dark beers when using Briess Midnight Wheat. I cut out using Cara Foam & etc. I just don’t think it does much for me in my process. I think results may vary as what your mash procedure is like decoction, step, or single infusion.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I've been a carafoam believer as i said above. I also always do step mashes, so I guess it's the process. I'll have to try some of my tried and true recipes without the carafoam. I would rather give up the carafoam than the process. Damn and I just restocked my inventory.

The dark roast malts surprised me, but I guess they shouldn't given I just kegged my Irish stout and it has that huge billowing head.

 

[Bramling Cross]

The dark roast malts surprised me, but I guess they shouldn't given I just kegged my Irish stout and it has that huge billowing head.

Cut yourself some slack, man. Outside of the Big G, it's pretty rare to find a contemporary stout that is below 6.5%, and many are higher--often much higher. As beer has become increasingly wine-like over the past twenty years, we've started to forget a lot of knowledge about more modestly sized beers.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Sorry @MaxStout, but if I have to choose between Charlie Bamforth's opinion and yours, I'm going with Charlie's every time. He wrote the book on foam (and several others).

Max knows his stuff and he's an excellent brewer, you're cheating yourself if you dismiss his remarks without the consideration they deserve.

 

[Slim M]

Cut yourself some slack, man. Outside of the Big G, it's pretty rare to find a contemporary stout that is below 6.5%, and many are higher--often much higher. As beer has become increasingly wine-like over the past twenty years, we've started to forget a lot of knowledge about more modestly sized beers.

Call me crazy but I’m more of a fan of beer in the abv 4-5.5 range these days. I love beer as much as I ever have, but the older I get the less I care for that drunk or hungover feeling.

I really only drink my beers on the weekends and would way rather have 2 or 3 pints and feel good than drink some imperial stout or extra extra IPA that may put me down for the count or have me wonder what I said or did last night after only 2 . I guess it’s just a more enjoyable experience in my OP.

 

[odie]

I use flaked wheat....

only because I scored a 55# sack of the stuff. Otherwise, caraplis type malt.

 

[Willy]

Carapils is not a scam, and many factors affect foam.

1) cold crash - go slow!!! 3-5° F drop per day until u get to serving temps. Makes a huge difference.
2) yes, wheat makes it foamier, and can also lead to cloudiness. Usually fixed by finings (gelatin, biofine).
3) carapils does indeed work. I once made a batch to see if I could push it to the limits and put 7%+ in a recipe. The finished beer had a head on it that looked like lemon meringue pie. It wasn't what I wanted, but not a disaster.

 

[Slim M]

Carapils is not a scam, and many factors affect foam.

1) cold crash - go slow!!! 3-5° F drop per day until u get to serving temps. Makes a huge difference.
2) yes, wheat makes it foamier, and can also lead to cloudiness. Usually fixed by finings (gelatin, biofine).
3) carapils does indeed work. I once made a batch to see if I could push it to the limits and put 7%+ in a recipe. The finished beer had a head on it that looked like lemon meringue pie. It wasn't what I wanted, but not a disaster.

At 7% how do you think it affected the taste?

 

[Willy]

At 7% how do you think it affected the taste?

It really didn't affect the taste other than you eat/drink with your eyes too. It had a 3-4" head on a pour and the foam was really thick. Almost like if you dropped a dime on the foam, the foam would hold it up... Thick. Not quite so sturdy, but tougher than regular foam. And sticking around until the last sip.

 

[tracer bullet]

I know it's anecdotal, but my foamiest beers are always my Pale Ales and British ESB style beers. My least foamy are my stouts and certainly my Imperial Stout. I'd find it pretty hard to believe dark grain alone is the thing that boosts foam. There's more to it, something process related perhaps as well. Though I tend to make all my beers the same way save for the minerals added.

 

[mac_1103]

My least foamy are my stouts and certainly my Imperial Stout. I'd find it pretty hard to believe dark grain alone is the thing that boosts foam.

My favorite local craft RIS pours with a beautiful head that dissipates almost before you have a chance to admire it. I suspect that the 13+% ABV might have something to do with that.

 

[Miraculix]

Due to another thread, I've just remembered that I've had the best foam with an extract beer. Hop tea, pale dme added into the fermenter directly without boiling it. Quickest and easiest brew ever. Greatest foam and marvellous taste.

So my guess is that a perfect mash contributes more to the foam than the different types of malt or grains do.

 

[ClaudiusB]

My favorite local craft RIS pours with a beautiful head that dissipates almost before you have a chance to admire it. I suspect that the 13+% ABV might have something to do with that.

Alcohol is the enemy of foam.

 

[Steveruch]

Carawheat? Chocolate wheat? Midnight wheat?

 

[AlexKay]

Carawheat? Chocolate wheat? Midnight wheat?

I'm speaking out of my *** here, but my guess is that for roast malt, it doesn't matter too much what cereal it is.

I believe the idea is that roasted grains help foam because of the polyphenols (maybe also the melanoidins) produced in the roasting process. I would expect the degree of roast to matter quite a bit.

The idea is that wheat helps foam because the wheat proteins result in (for whatever structural reasons) more favorable interactions.

So my *** thinks that proteins go through the wringer during roasting, that there's probably not too much structural similarity between roast-malt and base-malt protein, and so there's not a reason to think that whatever distinguishes wheat from barley survives through.

I'm less clear on crystal. My ***'s *** wants to say that the issue is more likely to be differences in lipids between the two cereals, and not differences in proteins.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Well I guess when my beers other than wheat beers have a good head, im just lucky I guess. I do believe that hops add to the foam, when I make hop water, the over carbed hop water (from a seltzer charger) has a lot of long lasting foam.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Call me crazy but I’m more of a fan of beer in the abv 4-5.5 range these days. I love beer as much as I ever have, but the older I get the less I care for that drunk or hungover feeling.

I really only drink my beers on the weekends and would way rather have 2 or 3 pints and feel good than drink some imperial stout or extra extra IPA that may put me down for the count or have me wonder what I said or did last night after only 2 . I guess it’s just a more enjoyable experience in my OP.

I'm with you. The bulk of what I brew these days would be considered a 7gal starter by many brewers.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Drankin' a bottle-carbed imperial stout that I made about 12 months ago...

Basic recipe:
65% briess 2-row
10% briess munich 10L
5% briess caramel 60L
5% briess roast 300L
5% briess chocolate 350L
5% flaked barley

abv: 11%, ibu: 60ish (magnum/willamette all at 60 minutes), fermented on us-05 yeast-cake

Taste: (fantastic)
Foam: quickly disappeared


Looks like it's time to buy some flaked (or malted?) wheat...

 

[Halfakneecap]

Does chit malt work? Is it superior to CaraPils/CaraFoam? Will the finished beer have a permanent haze? What's the ultimate effect on the desired clarity on my Unicorn Kolsch? Am I being counter-productive to add chit malt to the grist for foam stability and head retention, and then later attempt to clarify with Biofine?

It seems like there are mutually exclusive goals at play. All I want to do is have a thick white foamy head on a crystal clear stange of Kolsch.

(note: sorry for the double post, here and on another "chitty" thread)

I use chit malt in my rice lagers. No haze at 3%.

If Euro Maltsters like Bestmaltz sell it, its a pretty good bet most of it goes to commercial breweries. They're not making thousands of kilos a year for Bob in Texas. Good enough for them, then i've got no issue using it in my rice lagers. I don't use it in other beers, but i like it in rice lagers.

 

[Miraculix]

My goodness!!!

There's a whole book about beer foam!

How could I have overread this?!


Oh .. it's pricey....

 

[AlexKay]

My goodness!!!

There's a whole book about beer foam!

How could I have overread this?!


Oh .. it's pricey....

It is also very, very short. I can’t be sure, but I would guess it’s intended to sit on the reference shelf of a large brewery that wants books on everything.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I'm with you. The bulk of what I brew these days would be considered a 7gal starter by many brebrewers

I'm part of this club too. My highest og the last four beers is 1.050. Schwarz, Irish stout, Australian sparkling and a session apa. The session apa actually used a pound of carafoam (8%). Huge billowing head, just saying .

 

[corncob]

Same for this aging family man. I have one recipe that's over 5% and I'm working to get it down to 4.5 or so. Other than that one, everything I brew is either a mild under 4% or in the 4.2-4.5% sweet spot. I like to have a few and just don't tolerate alcohol like I used to.

 

[bnut]

A clean glass.

 

[Bramling Cross]

A clean glass.

I agree. I think this is too often overlooked.

Frankly, I've never found it necessary to think about beer foam even at the absurdly low serving pressures that I use, but if I'm eating something greasy and go for a refill, that head isn't sticking around very long.

 

[rlrohan]

A clean glass.

Good point. I wonder if rinse aids in the dishwasher could have anything to do with it.

 

[MaxStout]

Good point. I wonder if rinse aids in the dishwasher could have anything to do with it.

It can affect it. Try shutting off the rinse aid dispenser and running the dishwasher with detergent only. Unfortunately, some dishwashers don't allow that override--like mine.

So I wash barware by hand with hot water and dish soap, then rinse well. Wipe dry with a lint-free bar towel.

 

[hottpeper13]

+1 for hand washing glasses!

 

[AlexKay]

I use:

This cleaner and a sponge/brush. Then rinse with RO and hang to air dry.

But that's only when I'm trying to impress people. Otherwise it's Dawn and a scrubby sponge.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I did an experiment with hand washing vs dishwasher. Zero difference on lacing etc. So I stopped hand washing and just use the dishwasher now.

The tablet/powder used may make a difference.

 

[Yesfan]

I did an experiment with hand washing vs dishwasher. Zero difference on lacing etc. So I stopped hand washing and just use the dishwasher now.

The tablet/powder used may make a difference.

I can believe that. I still hand wash all my beer glasses with logos though, as I'm afraid they'll fade away faster over time vs hand washing. No print glasses go in the washer.