Best Economical Element and Controller

[no-body]

You aren't going to be burned by him. I just checked because I was curious; I have placed 15 orders with him over the last 2+ years.

Know how many times I've gotten burned? Yeah. That's why I have placed 15 orders with him.

Further, he stands behind his stuff--even when a mistake wasn't his fault. I put on my Christmas list a couple years ago a spunding valve or some such, but when I sent the link to my family I just let the default be the choice--which wasn't the right connection.

I called to inquire why I got the wrong thing, when it became apparent the fault was with me, not with Bobby. I was ready for another order and Bobby said to include in the comment section that I needed a different connector and he'd include it.

Again: it wasn't his fault, it was mine. And yet he wanted his customer to be happy. What a weird philosophy!

In the end, I just ordered the new connector and paid for it, and tossed the other in my parts box; I wasn't going to have him incur a cost because I made a mistake.

I've spoken to him a couple times on the phone to ensure I was getting the right thing, it all went swimmingly. The guy knows what he is about.

********

There's another side to this: Bobby's stuff is really good. His weldless bulkhead ports are stunningly good. Just as solid as welded and they don't leak.

So...if you're worried about whether this particular vendor is reliable, or supplied quality merchandise, worry not. Maybe--maybe--you can get some things more cheaply on Amazon, but you never quite know what the quality is. And yeah, maybe it comes faster from Amazon, and if that's your criterion for a successful transaction, so be it.

I'm tempted to go and add up the dollar value of all the transactions I've had with Bobby, but maybe not. I don't think I want to know.

And FWIW, you just reminded me I need some Camlock connectors. Have to start building an order. Again. #16.

I'm not bashing Bobby or his business, but how can I pay over $40 PLUS shipping for a heating element when I can buy a 100% stainless steel element from Amazon for $21.95 with shipping?

 

[kh54s10]

I'm not bashing Bobby or his business, but how can I pay over $40 PLUS shipping for a heating element when I can buy a 100% stainless steel element from Amazon for $21.95 with shipping?

Which element? Bobby has many. From $19 to $104.......
One thing you don't know is if the two are comparable. I prefer to let Bobby do the research and testing to make sure the item he sells works for what it is intended to do.

On Amazon, elements might be marketed to be used for brewing, but in most cases that is not what they were designed to do.

Bobby may be selling one of the same. I don't know which that would be. But if Bobby sells it, it will be high quality and do what it is now intended to do. It will fit. And if it doesn't he will fix it or replace it without a hassle.

 

[brewbama]

I'm not bashing Bobby or his business, but how can I pay over $40 PLUS shipping for a heating element when I can buy a 100% stainless steel element from Amazon for $21.95 with shipping?

Be sure to get the ULWD in the length, voltage, and wattage you need. Of the numerous Amazon offerings, It is very difficult to determine which one is correct for your application.

 

[Homergah]

Does anyone know of a good way to clean off the streak? The friend I bought the pot from said he ignored it but I'll have the element disassembled anyways and would like to clean it off.

Have you tried asking Amazon? They should be able to help you since you are a loyal customer.

 

[nick sekerak]

I'm not bashing Bobby or his business, but how can I pay over $40 PLUS shipping for a heating element when I can buy a 100% stainless steel element from Amazon for $21.95 with shipping?

I got my elements from Bobby and they are top quality, they are made well too. In fact after my last brew i was heating my kettle up to circ some PBW and then drained the entire kettle empty. Guess what my element was still on smoking up a storm. I shut it off, let it cool and then tested it to see if it was spent. Not this time the element works fine like nothing ever happened. This does not happen with cheap elements.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm not bashing Bobby or his business, but how can I pay over $40 PLUS shipping for a heating element when I can buy a 100% stainless steel element from Amazon for $21.95 with shipping?

your paying extra for the customer service if you choose and the support... like others mentioned he tests and vets out the junk. and stand behind it..Is that always needed? No. That said I'm not iplying you dont have a point, its all on how you want to look at it and your priorities with each purchase.... I do the same from time to time and buy things from all different sources.. thats how I built the control panel in my avatar pic for under $300... I couldnt source all the parts from the then go to recommended auberins at the time but I stopped add ing up the components I could get there when I saw I was easily well over double the cost with only 3/4 the components...
Truth of the matter is I am willing to pay more in many cases like when I shop at my local home brewing store for the same reason people buy from reputable honest vendors like brewhardware.. because I appreciate what they contribute to the hobby.

 

[augiedoggy]

I got my elements from Bobby and they are top quality, they are made well too. In fact after my last brew i was heating my kettle up to circ some PBW and then drained the entire kettle empty. Guess what my element was still on smoking up a storm. I shut it off, let it cool and then tested it to see if it was spent. Not this time the element works fine like nothing ever happened. This does not happen with cheap elements.

ehh it can honestly... Theres not that many different manufacturers making these but the prices do vary a lot based on many factors and not all of it is directly related to quality and ill leave it at that. when you buy from brewhardware you take the trial and error and research out of the equation.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Looks like I found a stainless steel element to replace the one I have with a rusted base, and it's only $21.99 through Amazon Prime.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016DB081K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Next, I have a small rust streak running down the inside of my pot. The pot is aluminum. Does anyone know of a good way to clean off the streak? The friend I bought the pot from said he ignored it but I'll have the element disassembled anyways and would like to clean it off.

If you went with this element the reviews on the washer a bad. Not even sure if its the right gasket for homebrew. a red "217 silicone o ring" is what you want

 

[mongoose33]

I'm not bashing Bobby or his business, but how can I pay over $40 PLUS shipping for a heating element when I can buy a 100% stainless steel element from Amazon for $21.95 with shipping?

Well, you said this: "I reached the point where I've been burned so bad by small online stores." That's what my response applied to. You won't be burned.

But you're concerned about the cost. OK.

Is the part the same? Part of what you're paying for is expertise, part of what you're paying for is ensuring the part works well, part of what you're paying for is his backing it up. If you feel there's not a quality difference, and you're certain it's suitable, then maybe you should just buy it from Amazon.

Either way, if you don't want to get it from Bobby, don't. You don't need our permission.

 

[NewJersey]

As with everything in life- you get what you pay for.
Every time I think I've learned that lesson for good I go and try and save a buck only to be let down YET AGAIN.
Buy quality and you'll likely save in the long run as you don't have to re-buy things. Ask me how I know

 

[doug293cz]

Let's keep it on topic folks. Keep personalities out of it.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[Bobby_M]

Looks like I found a stainless steel element to replace the one I have with a rusted base, and it's only $21.99 through Amazon Prime.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016DB081K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Next, I have a small rust streak running down the inside of my pot. The pot is aluminum. Does anyone know of a good way to clean off the streak? The friend I bought the pot from said he ignored it but I'll have the element disassembled anyways and would like to clean it off.

I certainly appreciate everyone chiming in and supporting my place in this business. Thanks for that. There's no possible way for any small U.S. based business to compete with: 1. Amazon 2. Chinese companies selling direct.

There was a period of time when Amazon was selling Bayou Classic pots for LESS than the wholesale price I pay Bayou and I still have to cover freight to get the stuff to me. Of course I can't compete there.

There are a lot of individual components that I sell that I personally invented. Prototype building, CAD drawing, vetting various factories with sample runs and then ultimately dropping thousands of dollars on production runs, freight, and import duties. Before I even get through the initial stock quantity, I find that factory selling the same thing direct to U.S. customers.

Here's the rub. When I import the products, I currently pay up to 25% in import duty thanks to Trump (this is not a political argument, it is a fact). When you buy it direct, it comes in a padded envelope and no one pays any import duty on it. You can see how this really helps the trade deficit.

All things considered, people buying an element from Amazon is not going to tank my business. However, chasing the price down to the bottom on everything is. If you think Amazon is in the brewing trenches figuring out what solutions are needed, where the voids are, what the best practices are, the answer is nope. That applies to all niche businesses where R&D and real world knowledge is what drives innovation.

Everything can't immediately be treated like a commodity the moment it shows up on Amazon. I mean, it can... but it shouldn't or the innovation stops. The patent system was created to fix this but in this small of a market, the cost is too high and the applicability of offshore copycats and direct sales makes it impractical.

So, in summary, everyone has to vote with their hard-earned dollars. Does Jeff Bezos throw another dollar on his pile of $135,300,000 or do I pay for my family's medical insurance? I know, get out all the tiny violins. $2300 a month in case you were wondering.

 

[doug293cz]

This thread is getting off track. You may post first hand reviews of suppliers, but you may not post hearsay (second, third, etc. hand reviews.) Limit your comments to how your interaction went, and avoid name calling, snide comments, or similar. Also, HBT forums are not the place to attempt to resolve any supplier issues.

Also, forums are not the place to litigate moderation decisions. If you have concerns related to moderation, take it up in a private conversation with a moderator or administrator.

This thread has been closed for a cooling off period.

doug293cz
HBT Moderator

 

[Spartan1979]

I

So, in summary, everyone has to vote with their hard-earned dollars. Does Jeff Bezos throw another dollar on his pile of $135,300,000 or do I pay for my family's medical insurance? I know, get out all the tiny violins. $2300 a month in case you were wondering.

You left 3 zeroes off of Jeff Bezos' pile.

 

[RobbieOByrne]

I certainly appreciate everyone chiming in and supporting my place in this business. Thanks for that.

Before my thread was hijacked.... this was about the best economical solution for elements and controller . Cheap non-quality (that rusts or worse) or unknown source venders are not the best. You have a reputation for quality time and time again, I appreciate that.

That being said, it’s hard to get ahold of you.

 

[Homergah]

Before my thread was hijacked....

Ha! That's how I feel sometimes. Yeah, this thread went off the rails. But we are a bunch of homebrewers, and as such, have been known to drink and type at the same time.

 

[no-body]

Which element? Bobby has many. From $19 to $104.......
One thing you don't know is if the two are comparable. I prefer to let Bobby do the research and testing to make sure the item he sells works for what it is intended to do.

On Amazon, elements might be marketed to be used for brewing, but in most cases that is not what they were designed to do.

Bobby may be selling one of the same. I don't know which that would be. But if Bobby sells it, it will be high quality and do what it is now intended to do. It will fit. And if it doesn't he will fix it or replace it without a hassle.

Sorry, the price from Bobby I quoted earlier was wrong.

I was comparing this element for $37.00 plus shipping from Bobby.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm

To this element for $21.99 with shipping.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016DB081K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I think I will order the $21.99 one from Amazon Prime next week.

On to controllers. Before I order this one for $254.99 with free shipping does someone know of a better deal for a complete boil controller?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K5KB3DS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Someone mentioned Still Dragon but I only see controller kits on their site. A friend of mine tried a speed controller from Harbor Freight and when he ran the controller it got so hot I couldn't touch it. The controller burned out half way through his second boil. They replaced it and that one burned out too.

 

[mongoose33]

Sorry, the price from Bobby I quoted earlier was wrong.

I was comparing this element for $37.00 plus shipping from Bobby.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm

To this element for $21.99 with shipping.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016DB081K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I think I will order the $21.99 one from Amazon Prime next week.

On to controllers. Before I order this one for $254.99 with free shipping does someone know of a better deal for a complete boil controller?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K5KB3DS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Someone mentioned Still Dragon but I only see controller kits on their site. A friend of mine tried a speed controller from Harbor Freight and when he ran the controller it got so hot I couldn't touch it. The controller burned out half way through his second boil. They replaced it and that one burned out too.

But the reviews on each site don't concern you?

On the Brewhardware offering: 29 reviews. 26 are 5-stars, 3 are 4-stars. Average: 4.89 stars

On the Amazon offering: 23 reviews. 8 are 5-stars, 6 are 4-stars, 2 are 2-stars, 5 are 1-star. Average: 3.3 stars.

 

[LittleRiver]

...On to controllers. Before I order this one for $254.99 with free shipping does someone know of a better deal for a complete boil controller?...Someone mentioned Still Dragon ...

If you're looking for a simple and well engineered boil power controller with no assembly required, take a look at the Blichmann Power Controller for $150 (240V & 120V versions available).

 

[augiedoggy]

If you're looking for a simple and well engineered boil power controller with no assembly required, take a look at the Blichmann Power Controller for $150 (240V & 120V versions available).

This looks a cheaper option but when comparing apples to apples with the required components the complete controller is still closer to $270 plus shipping... unless your planning on having the kettle and wall outlet 1ft apart from each other and wnt to make up your own mounting bracket..

The plugs and cable for this setup actually require an extra male and female plug because the cords that come with it are just meant to be pigtails to connect longer cables which need male and female ends... and if you want an actual on off relay (like the brew-control panel appears to have controlled by the estop) its another $100 bringing the cost to 370 plus shipping..
in its $150 form its functionally just like the $40 stilldragon controller only with really short cords and the 30 minutes worth of assembly done..

 

[LittleRiver]

If I were going the route of the Blichmann controller I'd make my own extension cables. Most folks can handle putting ends on cables. Plus you get exactly the length that's needed.

 

[no-body]

But the reviews on each site don't concern you?

On the Brewhardware offering: 29 reviews. 26 are 5-stars, 3 are 4-stars. Average: 4.89 stars

On the Amazon offering: 23 reviews. 8 are 5-stars, 6 are 4-stars, 2 are 2-stars, 5 are 1-star. Average: 3.3 stars.

I read the reviews. Most on Bobby's site are for great customer service which I don't expect from Amazon. Most negative reviews on the Amazon element are for the soft gasket. I looked at the existing gasket on the installed element and it's squashed flat anyways.

So, unless I want to pay extra for Bobby's service, I see the reviews as a wash. I'm not saying his service isn't valuable, it's just not for a heating element.

 

[no-body]

If you're looking for a simple and well engineered boil power controller with no assembly required, take a look at the Blichmann Power Controller for $150 (240V & 120V versions available).

I looked. These cost more after buying a 30 amp extension cable. The one on Amazon already comes with a 12 foot power cable and I can order mine with a 3 prong dryer plug that fits the dryer outlet in my garage.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I looked. These cost more after buying a 30 amp extension cable. The one on Amazon already comes with a 12 foot power cable and I can order mine with a 3 prong dryer plug that fits the dryer outlet in my garage.

Your going to want a GFI breaker. Most get a spa panel, they're cheaper than a breaker with GFI. 240V plus water equals death God forbid there was an issue so a GFI on the circuit is a no brainer Be aware that with your 3 wire dryer setup( like mine) you cant run any pumps off the panel. A separate 110 outlet I'm sure you have somewhere solves that problem pretty easy

 

[no-body]

Your going to want a GFI breaker. Most get a spa panel, they're cheaper than a breaker with GFI. 240V plus water equals death God forbid there was an issue. Be aware that with your 3 wire dryer setup( like mine) you cant run any pumps off the panel. A separate 110 outlet I'm sure you have somewhere solves that problem pretty easy

My outlet is already installed

Your going to want a GFI breaker. Most get a spa panel, they're cheaper than a breaker with GFI. 240V plus water equals death God forbid there was an issue so a GFI on the circuit is a no brainer Be aware that with your 3 wire dryer setup( like mine) you cant run any pumps off the panel. A separate 110 outlet I'm sure you have somewhere solves that problem pretty easy

This is just for a boil controller and it's a existing dryer outlet in my garage. I don't need 110V.

A 30 Amp 2 pole GFCI breaker from Home Depot that fits my panel is $63.41.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-30-A...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-100205821-_-206602329-_-N

A SPA panel from Home Depot is $78.89.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-B...ith-2-Pole-Self-Test-GFCI-BR50SPAST/206696172

 

[augiedoggy]

If I were going the route of the Blichmann controller I'd make my own extension cables. Most folks can handle putting ends on cables. Plus you get exactly the length that's needed.

its actually just about as easy to wire up the stilldragon controller if your comfortable building extension cables... Still the plugs arent cheap even if you go to home depot your looking at $20 for the male end of the cord and $32 for the female end... not even including the cord thats my point .. its ends up costing more than the amazon controller with the 12' cord already included.

 

[augiedoggy]

My outlet is already installed


This is just for a boil controller and it's a existing dryer outlet in my garage. I don't need 110V.

A 30 Amp 2 pole GFCI breaker from Home Depot that fits my panel is $63.41.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-30-A...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-100205821-_-206602329-_-N

A SPA panel from Home Depot is $78.89.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-B...ith-2-Pole-Self-Test-GFCI-BR50SPAST/206696172

actually you can get the spa panels for $40 shipped on ebay..
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=223196240418

 

[no-body]

These are being sold as used / returned stock, and he states they may be missing small parts. The seller has a rating of one star.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

My outlet is already installed


This is just for a boil controller and it's a existing dryer outlet in my garage. I don't need 110V.

A 30 Amp 2 pole GFCI breaker from Home Depot that fits my panel is $63.41.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-30-A...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-100205821-_-206602329-_-N

A SPA panel from Home Depot is $78.89.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-B...ith-2-Pole-Self-Test-GFCI-BR50SPAST/206696172

Wow Prices on the Spa panel have gone up. Mine was like $45 at HD....but agree. Popping a new breaker in is way easier and seems to be cheaper

 

[LittleRiver]

its actually just about as easy to wire up the stilldragon controller if your comfortable building extension cables... Still the plugs arent cheap even if you go to home depot your looking at $20 for the male end of the cord and $32 for the female end... not even including the cord thats my point .. its ends up costing more than the amazon controller with the 12' cord already included.

I buy such things at a local plumbing/electrical supplier, and get waaay better prices than Lowes/HomeDepot.

I like that the Blichmann controller uses PWM, and I think the $150 retail is quite fair for a fully assembled and tested unit from a very reputable company. I think some Blichmann stuff is overpriced, but not this boil controller.

 

[no-body]

I buy such things at a local plumbing/electrical supplier, and get waaay better prices than Lowes/HomeDepot.

I like that the Blichmann controller uses PWM, and I think the $150 retail is quite fair for a fully assembled and tested unit from a very reputable company. I think some Blichmann stuff is overpriced, but not this boil controller.

How much do you pay at your local electrical supply? I know a apartment maintenance Supervisor and if it saves enough money I might ask him to pick me up one.

 

[augiedoggy]

I buy such things at a local plumbing/electrical supplier, and get waaay better prices than Lowes/HomeDepot.

I like that the Blichmann controller uses PWM, and I think the $150 retail is quite fair for a fully assembled and tested unit from a very reputable company. I think some Blichmann stuff is overpriced, but not this boil controller.

Branding aside we already know blichmann doesnt make this stuff. They contract it out to various companies that specilize in the types of equipment they want to market.. Im sure its made well as blichmanns stuff usually is but then again so it the stuff we are comparing it against unless we see evidence indicating otherwise. In fact at first glance the panel from amazon is safer and a better design than both the stilldragon and blichmann setup because it has an Estop.

I was under the impression it used an ssvr just like the still dragon kit and the amazon controller linked above. Regardless I'm just pointing out people are comparing apples to oranges... Its really all where you choose to draw your line in the sand... You say you can source components cheaper to use the blichmann controller and I just pointed out you can source the whole thing way cheaper.. Ive built those ssvr controllers myself with ssvr and potentiometer kit sold on ebay for $27. Anywhere you go your going to spend at least another $150 to make the blichmann controller have the same functionality as the amazon controller with the built in $100 relay option and 3 30a nema plug ends and 12 ft of cord and then when you factor in the shipping it is in fact likely more money.

 

[augiedoggy]

How much do you pay at your local electrical supply? I know a apartment maintenance Supervisor and if it saves enough money I might ask him to pick me up one.

Your cheapest bet will likely be ebay for UL listed nema components.

 

[no-body]

Your cheapest bet will likely be ebay for UL listed nema components.

I was asking how much he paid for a SPA panel.

 

[augiedoggy]

I was asking how much he paid for a SPA panel.

Yeah I got that but I was a maintenance man for 13 years. I took care of a large restaurant, plaza and many houses as well as an apartment building.
Unless he worked for an electrical supply company hes likely paying the same retail for the stuff as everyone else. possible a 10% discount if he has an account at an electric supply company like I did. In fact I just had to pick up 2 spa panels for my electrician friend when he wired up the 2 60amp breakers my 3bbl system runs off and even with his electricians discount they spa panels were still like $93 each. (they were 60A spa panels) These places are usually more $$ than places like home depot but it all depends on what your looking for. I really doubt youll find one cheaper locally than online unless you buy one used.

 

[augiedoggy]

These are being sold as used / returned stock, and he states they may be missing small parts. The seller has a rating of one star.

there are many of them new for around the same price if you look there I just grabbed one. heres a brand new one for $60 shipped seller has 100% positive feedback.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=273690064246

 

[LittleRiver]

How much do you pay at your local electrical supply? ...

It's been a while since I've bought electrical components from them, and they don't have online shopping, so I can't check current prices online. The last thing I bought from them was a coil of soft copper tubing for making a heat exchanger. Their price was about 50% of what Lowes wanted.

 

[no-body]

Branding aside we already know blichmann doesnt make this stuff. They contract it out to various companies that specilize in the types of equipment they want to market.. Im sure its made well as blichmanns stuff usually is but then again so it the stuff we are comparing it against unless we see evidence indicating otherwise. In fact at first glance the panel from amazon is safer and a better design than both the stilldragon and blichmann setup because it has an Estop.

I was under the impression it used an ssvr just like the still dragon kit and the amazon controller linked above. Regardless I'm just pointing out people are comparing apples to oranges... Its really all where you choose to draw your line in the sand... You say you can source components cheaper to use the blichmann controller and I just pointed out you can source the whole thing way cheaper.. Ive built those ssvr controllers myself with ssvr and potentiometer kit sold on ebay for $27. Anywhere you go your going to spend at least another $150 to make the blichmann controller have the same functionality as the amazon controller with the built in $100 relay option and 3 30a nema plug ends and 12 ft of cord and then when you factor in the shipping it is in fact likely more money.

I looked through the Amazon seller's question and answers and found some interesting stuff. They use a T92P7A22-240 to interrupt power for the ESTOP. Is anyone else using this part? Is it any good?
https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx1P8JQ6KE1OOWX/ref=ask_dp_dpmw_al_hza

It looks like they use PWM and not SSVR. Are they the same thing? If not then which is better and why?
https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx2ZCF5176QF25/ref=ask_ql_ql_al_hza

 

[no-body]

Wow Prices on the Spa panel have gone up. Mine was like $45 at HD....but agree. Popping a new breaker in is way easier and seems to be cheaper

I think I've pretty much talked myself into a breaker. It would be different if I were adding a plug for my boil controller but my plug is already installed in the garage and waiting for me to use.

 

[jcav]

Yes can't EVER go wrong ordering from Bobby! Placed many many orders over the years. Awhile back he even built me a customized tri clamp fitting for my conical fermenter to attach my gas line, so I can transfer into my kegs under pressure. Now it is a regular item and he sells a lot of them. Quality stuff and excellent customer service!

Cheers!

John