Best Economical Element and Controller

[doug293cz]

A word of warning about Brew-Control. Brew-Control on Amazon is Tom Hargrave. Hargrave has a long history of disreputable dealings in the homebrew equipment marketplace. Hargrave has been banned from HBT because of this.
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/specific_search/tom hargrave
[URL]https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1351.0[/URL]
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/tom-hargrave-and-kegkits-com-www-ic3-gov.168035/



Ordering thru Amazon may give you better recourse than dealing directly with Hargrave's companies, but think before ordering.

 

[augiedoggy]

A word of warning about Brew-Control. Brew-Control on Amazon is Tom Hargrave. Hargrave has a long history of disreputable dealings in the homebrew equipment marketplace. Hargrave has been banned from HBT because of this.
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/specific_search/tom hargrave
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1351.0
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/tom-hargrave-and-kegkits-com-www-ic3-gov.168035/



Ordering thru Amazon may give you better recourse than dealing directly with Hargrave's companies, but think before ordering.

I actually suspected it might be him because I know hes been selling on amazon for years now. Just couldnt remember the brand

 

[doug293cz]

I actually suspected it might be him because I know hes been selling on amazon for years now.

He is also the supplier known as "Stir-Plate" on Amazon. But, the web site for Stir-Plate appears to be unreachable (might no longer exist.)

 

[no-body]

He is also the supplier known as "Stir-Plate" on Amazon. But, the web site for Stir-Plate appears to be unreachable (might no longer exist.)

I looked up Tom Hargrave Sales and here's their BBB profile.
https://www.bbb.org/us/al/huntsville/profile/home-brewing-supplies/tom-hargrave-sales-0513-900050886

 

[doug293cz]

I looked up Tom Hargrave Sales and here's their BBB profile.
https://www.bbb.org/us/al/huntsville/profile/home-brewing-supplies/tom-hargrave-sales-0513-900050886

From your link:

The listing is for "Tom Hargrave Sales". He has done business as Kegkits, Stir-Plate, Brew-Control, and maybe others. The complaints I have seen list the better known business names, rather than Tom Hargrave Sales. Note that Tom Hargrave Sales is NOT accredited by the BBB. Also, many folks have a low opinion of the BBB as a watchdog on businesses.

Let's get back to discussing affordable elements and controllers.

 

[augiedoggy]

Hes running off his existing dryer outlet,like me. In the years I've been using my setup I've never once flipped the breaker on the spa panel. Not once.

When the brew day is over I unplug the the power at the dryer outlet and replug the dryer. Simple enough to to. In the OPs case he would just unplug the cord in the dryer outlet and the brew day is over. Theres no need to kill the power at the main.You dont need a spa panel to kill the power. If that was the case I'd need a spa panel for my wife's hair dryer cell phone charger extension cords and everything you plug and unplug.

As noted the price of the spa panel cost more than the breaker now. Then you need to factor in the cost of a dryer cord going into the spa panel...A GFI beaker is cheaper. And certainly easier. Plus the added bonus that the dryer would be on a GFI if using a breaker

The spa panel really is useless..in my setup and many others I would think. When did simply unplugging something become bad?

If the gfci breaker really is cheaper and you have no need for a main power switch in the brewing area your absolutely right, Except of course for the fact that if a person has to actually use the dryer outlet for a dryer it wont work.. it will usually trip the ground fault.
these locking 240v plugs can certainly be unplugged as long as the load is off otherwise you may actually damage the blades of the plug and outlet over time as they make and break connection.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Hes running off his existing dryer outlet,like me. In the years I've been using my setup I've never once flipped the breaker on the spa panel. Not once.

When the brew day is over I unplug the the power at the dryer outlet and replug the dryer. Simple enough to to. In the OPs case he would just unplug the cord in the dryer outlet and the brew day is over. Theres no need to kill the power at the main.You dont need a spa panel to kill the power. If that was the case I'd need a spa panel for my wife's hair dryer cell phone charger extension cords and everything you plug and unplug.

As noted the price of the spa panel cost more than the breaker now. Then you need to factor in the cost of a dryer cord going into the spa panel...A GFI beaker is cheaper. And certainly easier. Plus the added bonus that the dryer would be on a GFI if using a breaker

The spa panel really is useless..in my setup and many others I would think. When did simply unplugging something become bad?

Also pointing out again that GFCI breakers aren't cheaper than spa panels now. The one specific breaker that was required for 1 persons specific setup was. For everyone else its still typically the more expensive way to go. cheers

 

[doug293cz]

If the gfci breaker really is cheaper and you have no need for a main power switch in the brewing area your absolutely right, Except of course for the fact that if a person has to actually use the dryer outlet for a dryer it wont work.. it will usually trip the ground fault.
these locking 240v plugs can certainly be unplugged as long as the load is off otherwise you may actually damage the blades of the plug and outlet over time as they make and break connection.

Some modern dryers have a jumper that is supposed to be moved depending on whether you are using a three wire or four wire outlet. The four wire setting should work on a GFCI outlet.

Brew on

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Also pointing out again that GFCI breakers aren't cheaper than spa panels now. The one specific breaker that was required for 1 persons specific setup was. For everyone else its still typically the more expensive way to go. cheers

Actually its 2 people The OP stated his was cheaper and so is mine. Spa panels are $80 now in the Big box stores and Amazon...probably everywhere for the most part. Then take on added wire and plugs not needed when using a breaker.

I would say its the other way around. For the masses with standard panels a breaker is available at a lower price than a Spa Panel and the few that have an oddball panel will be paying more for a breaker...but whatever...its not a pissing contest

 

[Blazinlow86]

Actually its 2 people The OP stated his was cheaper and so is mine. Spa panels are $80 now in the Big box stores and Amazon...probably everywhere for the most part. Then take on added wire and plugs not needed when using a breaker.

I would say its the other way around. For the masses with standard panels a breaker is available at a lower price than a Spa Panel and the few that have an oddball panel will be paying more for a breaker...but whatever...its not a pissing contest

Exactly. People chose what works best for there setup and majority end up with the spa panel becase for whatever reason it was best for them . Luckily for the few with the ge panel linked if costs were the only reason they would have chosen a spa panel there's now a cheaper option. also not to beat a dead horse but i feel your still assuming that your configuration is the same as everyone elses and or that if there config isnt the same as yours that they are doing it incorrectly or there reasoning isnt relevent. my panel is the same age as the majority in my city. i dont live in a house made out of mud or a igloo. i CANNOT purchase a cheap gfci breaker. also i dont brew next to my dryer so i would still have needed to purchase the said extra wiring that you didnt need to purchase. so in the end i spent the 50$ on my spa panel that op would have on his breaker. fwiw i agree you made the wrong choice for your setup . however as this is getting off topic quickly im out of this part of the discussion. cheers


edit

also fwiw i just had a quick look on lowes.com and cannot find any breakers that are cheaper than the spa panel they are selling. cheers

 

[augiedoggy]

Actually its 2 people The OP stated his was cheaper and so is mine. Spa panels are $80 now in the Big box stores and Amazon...probably everywhere for the most part. Then take on added wire and plugs not needed when using a breaker.

I would say its the other way around. For the masses with standard panels a breaker is available at a lower price than a Spa Panel and the few that have an oddball panel will be paying more for a breaker...but whatever...its not a pissing contest

i think it depends on location... my spa panel was $68 and home depot and a 30A gfci was over $100 at the same store.

 

[RobbieOByrne]

Just to chime in, i'm the OP, No-body is a participant with the questions. I have a GFCI 30a plug ready to go. Why exactly a GFCI plug is important, not completely clear on?

Going back on topic. Elements/Controllers - I'm looking for one, I have contact hosehead and they are looking at building me one that fits my system (1-240v 5500 element (15gal kettle heater), 1-120v 2200 element (Rims), 1- Riptide, 2- temperature probes (Kettle-for mash double checking, Rims) . High Gravity is not responding to emails about their Worthog controller. Brewhardware (Bobby), isn't responding to emails about his gear and controller possibilities. Ebrewsupply is responding and has given me options for BIY BIAB controller.

I have been looking at Grainfather and other similar systems BCS and wondering if I can adapt it for my system.

 

[Bobby_M]

Just to chime in, i'm the OP, No-body is a participant with the questions. I have a GFCI 30a plug ready to go. Why exactly a GFCI plug is important, not completely clear on?

Going back on topic. Elements/Controllers - I'm looking for one, I have contact hosehead and they are looking at building me one that fits my system (1-240v 5500 element (15gal kettle heater), 1-120v 2200 element (Rims), 1- Riptide, 2- temperature probes (Kettle-for mash double checking, Rims) . High Gravity is not responding to emails about their Worthog controller. Brewhardware (Bobby), isn't responding to emails about his gear and controller possibilities. Ebrewsupply is responding and has given me options for BIY BIAB controller.

I have been looking at Grainfather and other similar systems BCS and wondering if I can adapt it for my system.

I dont sell controllers. I currently recommend auberins.com controllers.

 

[doug293cz]

Just to chime in, i'm the OP, No-body is a participant with the questions. I have a GFCI 30a plug ready to go. Why exactly a GFCI plug is important, not completely clear on?

Going back on topic. Elements/Controllers - I'm looking for one, I have contact hosehead and they are looking at building me one that fits my system (1-240v 5500 element (15gal kettle heater), 1-120v 2200 element (Rims), 1- Riptide, 2- temperature probes (Kettle-for mash double checking, Rims) . High Gravity is not responding to emails about their Worthog controller. Brewhardware (Bobby), isn't responding to emails about his gear and controller possibilities. Ebrewsupply is responding and has given me options for BIY BIAB controller.

I have been looking at Grainfather and other similar systems BCS and wondering if I can adapt it for my system.

The GFCI is to protect you if something goes wrong with your equipment (ground connection gone bad, voltage accidentally connected where it shouldn't be, etc.) Your circuit breaker won't trip until you have a current over 30A flowing (assuming a 30A breaker.) It only takes something like 50 - 100 milliamps to kill you, so the circuit breaker won't protect you from dangerous faults. The GFCI will trip when any current leakage above 5 - 6 milliamps is detected, long before you can get a harmful shock (although you can get a tingle with a few mA.) Wet environments are places where opportunities for leakage exist.

Remind me again, are you looking for a pre-built controller, or are you considering DIY? If you are looking for a custom DIY design, I can help you with that. And like Bobby, I recommend building DIY control panels based on Auberins controllers.

Brew on

 

[RobbieOByrne]

Remind me again, are you looking for a pre-built controller, or are you considering DIY? If you are looking for a custom DIY design, I can help you with that. And like Bobby, I recommend building DIY control panels based on Auberins controllers.

Brew on

Thank you for that information about GFCI!

I'm looking for a controller I can afford, if I have to build it I will. I have seen auberins controllers and they seem a bit expensive, considering I can have a prebuilt controller "warthog" for $70 more...My issue is the Elements and Temps for both kettle and rims and I don't have a thousand dollars to burn on a system.

 

[mongoose33]

Thank you for that information about GFCI!

I'm looking for a controller I can afford, if I have to build it I will. I have seen auberins controllers and they seem a bit expensive, considering I can have a prebuilt controller "warthog" for $70 more...My issue is the Elements and Temps for both kettle and rims and I don't have a thousand dollars to burn on a system.

Just be sure you're comparing apples to apples when you say you can have a pre-built controller for $70 more. Yeah, you can, but there are things you may wish to add, and it's not as feature-rich as the Auber Instruments Kit-brew. No main shutoff, only one pump circuit (you can add a second for $39.95), the form factor appears much deeper.

One thing was clear as I did mine in August: it ends up being more expensive than you might think after adding various options. At the time, I wasn't sure the Stilldragon was a good way to go, so I bit the bullet on the Auber panel. More recently someone else on HBT has had a good experience with it. Were I back at the beginning starting over with what I know now, I'd probably have done the Stilldragon. I would likely be able to sell it to recover most if not all of what I had in it and put that toward a panel once I knew what I wanted.

*******

FYI also: one thing I hadn't fully considered in the cost when I built mine was the cords needed to connect. They aren't necessarily cheap. Make sure you have a handle on that as part of the total cost. The cord for connecting to the boil element I bought from here:

https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NEMAL630Rcord

The plug:

https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NEMAL630P

I bought the power cord to connect to the 4-wire receptacle from the local home store.

 

[Spartan1979]

Have you seen these? http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=292956079363

 

[RobbieOByrne]

Have you seen these? http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=292956079363

Yes I have, it doesn't really fit my needs 30a plug 2 therms 1 pump 1 240v 5500w and 1 120 2200w. Thank you for sharing though.

 

[RobbieOByrne]

Just be sure you're comparing apples to apples when you say you can have a pre-built controller for $70 more. Yeah, you can, but there are things you may wish to add, and it's not as feature-rich as the Auber Instruments Kit-brew. No main shutoff, only one pump circuit (you can add a second for $39.95), the form factor appears much deeper.

One thing was clear as I did mine in August: it ends up being more expensive than you might think after adding various options. At the time, I wasn't sure the Stilldragon was a good way to go, so I bit the bullet on the Auber panel. More recently someone else on HBT has had a good experience with it. Were I back at the beginning starting over with what I know now, I'd probably have done the Stilldragon. I would likely be able to sell it to recover most if not all of what I had in it and put that toward a panel once I knew what I wanted.

*******

FYI also: one thing I hadn't fully considered in the cost when I built mine was the cords needed to connect. They aren't necessarily cheap. Make sure you have a handle on that as part of the total cost. The cord for connecting to the boil element I bought from here:

https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NEMAL630Rcord

The plug:

https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NEMAL630P

I bought the power cord to connect to the 4-wire receptacle from the local home store.

Well i'm having brewtronix come up with something to match my system. I'll see what their final price is. I'm also looking at warthog by high gravity.

 

[biertourist]

I replaced their crappy plastic glands with bigger stainless steel ones from Amazon. Need to ream out the hole in the enclosure to slightly larger diameter, but it worked great in the end.

PG16 was the correct size.

View attachment 612384

PassedPawn, I need to get rid of those terrible plastic glands, too. You used PG16 with 10/3 SOOW cable to the elements? (The thick outer jacket 10/3 variant?)


Adam

 

[passedpawn]

PassedPawn, I need to get rid of those terrible plastic glands, too. You used PG16 with 10/3 SOOW cable to the elements? (The thick outer jacket 10/3 variant?)


Adam

Ah crap, NO! I don't know what I was thinking there. It should be PG21. I bought them off ebay. Not listed any more. It fits nicely onto 10/3 SJOOW. Not sure about SOOW.

Sorry about that error. I searched my amazon orders list and the PG16's popped right up. I have no idea what I bought those for.

 

[Francus]

A word of warning about Brew-Control. Brew-Control on Amazon is Tom Hargrave. Hargrave has a long history of disreputable dealings in the homebrew equipment marketplace. Hargrave has been banned from HBT because of this.
https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/specific_search/tom hargrave
[URL]https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1351.0[/URL]
Tom Hargrave and Kegkits.com (www.ic3.gov)

Sorry to resurrect a thread, but lucky me. My electric controller died and I was searching for something quick and cheap to take its place while I decided what to do and I ran into this dude's brew-controller.com website. And me being the trusting sort dropped some dough for his HERMS II controller because it would do the trick in a pinch. Then the fun began.

Before I purchased Tom would respond to email questions in under 10 minutes. After I bought it took a couple of days, but in an email he assured me it would be out that Saturday (three days later). Come Monday, no news so I emailed again and was told it would be out Wednesday, a week after my purchase. That Friday no news and no tracking number. I emailed again. No response. I emailed last Wednesday, no response. I emailed this afternoon, no response. I did open a purchase protection ticket with PayPay today, but you have to wait for 20 days before continuing to give the seller time to respond. Or in this case, probably 20 days to hold on to my money or send me a sub standard product. My big fear is he'll generate a tracking number, send crap, and tell PayPal it was sent as described, then I'll have to spend more time. At some point the amount of time wasted won't be worth the return and I think he knows it.

Time will tell how this plays out and I will update. I am too trusting. Too many years of dealing with reputable persons on Amazons, eBay, and a myriad of other places and never having an issue. Or maybe I'm just too trusting, hard stop. I wish I had done more research and found this thread before I dropped half a grand on his controller. At this point, I just want my money back and I will put it towards something better and from someone without issues, even 10 yr old issues.

Anyway, be warned. And do due diligence. I wish I had done more.

 

[kenack]

Sorry to resurrect a thread, but lucky me. My electric controller died and I was searching for something quick and cheap to take its place while I decided what to do and I ran into this dude's brew-controller.com website. And me being the trusting sort dropped some dough for his HERMS II controller because it would do the trick in a pinch. Then the fun began.

Before I purchased Tom would respond to email questions in under 10 minutes. After I bought it took a couple of days, but in an email he assured me it would be out that Saturday (three days later). Come Monday, no news so I emailed again and was told it would be out Wednesday, a week after my purchase. That Friday no news and no tracking number. I emailed again. No response. I emailed last Wednesday, no response. I emailed this afternoon, no response. I did open a purchase protection ticket with PayPay today, but you have to wait for 20 days before continuing to give the seller time to respond. Or in this case, probably 20 days to hold on to my money or send me a sub standard product. My big fear is he'll generate a tracking number, send crap, and tell PayPal it was sent as described, then I'll have to spend more time. At some point the amount of time wasted won't be worth the return and I think he knows it.

Time will tell how this plays out and I will update. I am too trusting. Too many years of dealing with reputable persons on Amazons, eBay, and a myriad of other places and never having an issue. Or maybe I'm just too trusting, hard stop. I wish I had done more research and found this thread before I dropped half a grand on his controller. At this point, I just want my money back and I will put it towards something better and from someone without issues, even 10 yr old issues.

Anyway, be warned. And do due diligence. I wish I had done more.

I talked to Tom last week and he is swamped with orders so I think you'll get it soon. I've got the original Herms II that's shown on his web page. He built it for me and my 30 gal system. I've been using it for over a year and it works well.

 

[Bobby_M]

I talked to Tom last week and he is swamped with orders so I think you'll get it soon. I've got the original Herms II that's shown on his web page. He built it for me and my 30 gal system. I've been using it for over a year and it works well.

Ok but so much for transparency. That's how he got into that huge mess in the first place. Over promise, under deliver, repeat.

 

[Francus]

Update for everyone who may be interested in this thread.

I have reached out to Tom several times since the above post with no response. I disputed the charge with my CC a week ago and according to them he has not responded to their contact attempts either. More updates as they occur.

 

[kenack]

Update for everyone who may be interested in this thread.

I have reached out to Tom several times since the above post with no response. I disputed the charge with my CC a week ago and according to them he has not responded to their contact attempts either. More updates as they occur.

I received my Herms II controller back from Tom on Thursday. I sent it back to him because the temp probe was off. He replaced the PID but that wasn't it, he found a broken wire at the probe female port in the box. He sent it back fixed with a new temperature probe and now I don't need it because I got tired of waiting and bought a BrewBuddy. I'd sell my Herms II if you need one still.

 

[Francus]

CC refunded my money this morning. They said they didn't receive any contact from Tom. Not sure if they ate it or got the money back. Either way, case closed.

 

[Francus]

And a followup. I did end up purchasing a HERMS II controller that had been previously used once or twice. In all fairness to Mr. Hargrave, the unit seems well built and it seems to work just fine. It is not NEMA or waterproof, but shouldn't be any problem whatsoever. It is very functional, even though bare bones, but that is what I needed at the moment to get back into brewing after my previous controller crapped out. I am awaiting a few nuts and o-rings to convert my setup and test some of the other parts of the equipment. If you want this unit because it fits your needs then I suggest getting it from Amazon. My guess is he fills those orders pretty fast as Amazon has some strict policies on what vendor can and cannot do. Don't order directly. It may save a few bucks, assuming you get it.