Best bitter-ish qritique pls

[Erik the Anglophile]

So, when I have bottled my current brew and have time, I'm gonna make an attempt at a bitter since i like to have a bunch of beer of different types for variety at home and bitter is a favorite of mine.

Batch is calculated at about 11.04 liter at end of boil, planning to get a little over 10L in the fermenter after filter and trub loss.

Grain bill:
1.59kg 70% Maris Otter (Crisp)
450g 20% Munich malt (Weyermann)
230g 10% Crystal 150 (Crisp)

Mash at 67c for 60 min
60 min boil

Hops:
12.5g Challenger 60 min
4g Bramling Cross 20 min
4g Whitbread Golding 20
20g Bramling Cross 0 min
10g Whitbread Golding 0 min

Ferment at 18c with lallemand nottingham ale

Est OG 1.050
Est FG 1.012
Ebc 24.8
IBU 32.7
ABV 5%

Kinda inspired by Ruddles Country ale, looking for something with light toffee character and berry, hoppy tones.
Something I should change or skip or does it seem like a decent ale?

 

[BigEd]

Looks to be quite drinkable but here are my thoughts for what they're worth. I love Weyermann Munich malt but it does seem to be a slightly unusual choice for a British style. You already have 10% crystal malt in the grist which to me is on the high end for that ingredient in a bitter. (I'm assuming the 150 is an EBC number on the crystal not Lovibond) With 10% crystal and 20% Munich it might the flavor could skew towards an American brewery's attempt at a German beer, Sam Adams Oktoberfest?

My suggestions would be to elimiate the Munich (use more MO pale), drop the crystal by a third, and increase the boil time to 90 minutes. A small addition (2%) of dark UK crystal, Special-B, or Weyermann CaraAroma could be tried to get some toffee flavor.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I originally had like 7% crystal 150 and 2%carabohemian, might try that, 90 min boil and drop the munich.
Cheers!

 

[Holden Caulfield]

With 10% crystal and 20% Munich it might the flavor could skew towards an American brewery's attempt at a German beer, Sam Adams Oktoberfest

^ this pretty much says it all - you have created an Octoberfest recipe and one that may be on the very sweet side.

English Bitter recipes tend to be quite simple, for example Fuller's ESB and London Pride, are just 95% English pale ale malt and 5% 75L English Crystal, with just a hint of dark roasted malt for color. Timothy Taylor Landlord is mostly just Golden Promise, it may have a little English Crystal 120L, and a hint of black malt for color.

The Munich malt you selected will provide a "malty" flavor to the beer, not a caramelly/toffee flavor as Munich is a kilned base malt (needs to be mashed) rather than a Crystal malt (can be steeped) which are essentially mashed in the husk and then the sugars are caramelized. Generally, it is the Cara-munich malts that are the German crystal malt equivalents (there are subtle differences).

For the toffee flavor mostly stick to the crystals in the 30 - 75 Lovi range. 10% crystal will push the beer towards the sweet side so you may want to reduce that if you want a drier beer. Also, above 100L you begin to get in the harsh zone for Crystal malts (see link on avoiding the harsh zone - Avoiding the Harsh Zone - Brew Your Own). Is the 150 crystal in your recipe Lovi or EBC?

Very dark crystal malts like Special B (150L, not the same as Special Roast which is said to produce a sourdough bread flavor), start to take on raisin like flavors, so only use these if that is the flavor profile you desire, and use them sparingly.

Below is a chart from Briess that shows a good caramel (crystal) malt flavor progression.

 

[Hanglow]

The medium crisp crystal malt is quite toffee like, more like a darker one from other maltsters . It's 240 ebc . I've been using a bit in my last couple of beers, both bitters. It depends what you think of toffee though, to me that briess guide would be wrong for toffee flavours from typical crystal malts - I'd call those lighter ones more like fudge or tablet.
https://crispmalt.com/malts/medium-crystal-crystal-240/
The light one that you have is more caramel than toffee and you will get a lot from 10% in that strong bitter you have. I'd agree with previous posters, reduce it to 5%.

as for munich, I think Tribute has cornish malt malted that way in it and it's a great beer. Personally I think it would be fine in a bitter. For a while I used weyermann malts in british style beers, they all turned out fine and while they were a bit different, I'd still have called them british - the yeast and hops took care of that.

Nottingham is fairly boring, although incredibly reliable

 

[McKnuckle]

You've gotten good feedback. The Fuller's recipe - the real one - was posted not long ago on Twitter by the brewers themselves. It has been scrutinized and discussed here.

Bottom line, the grist is simple: 92.6% pale malt, 7.2% Crystal 45L, and 0.2% chocolate malt for color, which comes out to about 8.8 SRM. OG is 1.056.

London Pride is brewed from the same grist! The OG and color would both be less. I don't have the exact figures.

 

[Sammy86]

I agree with the above brewers...the grain bills for bitters are traditionally very simple.

For example my bitter recipe is 95% Maris Otter 5 % C55. Adds some caramel and toffee flavor while not being overpowering.

Also, i would up to IBU to 40 just my personal preference though.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

^ this pretty much says it all - you have created an Octoberfest recipe and one that may be on the very sweet side.

English Bitter recipes tend to be quite simple, for example Fuller's ESB and London Pride, are just 95% English pale ale malt and 5% 75L English Crystal, with just a hint of dark roasted malt for color. Timothy Taylor Landlord is mostly just Golden Promise, it may have a little English Crystal 120L, and a hint of black malt for color.

The Munich malt you selected will provide a "malty" flavor to the beer, not a caramelly/toffee flavor as Munich is a kilned base malt (needs to be mashed) rather than a Crystal malt (can be steeped) which are essentially mashed in the husk and then the sugars are caramelized. Generally, it is the Cara-munich malts that are the German crystal malt equivalents (there are subtle differences).

For the toffee flavor mostly stick to the crystals in the 30 - 75 Lovi range. 10% crystal will push the beer towards the sweet side so you may want to reduce that if you want a drier beer. Also, above 100L you begin to get in the harsh zone for Crystal malts (see link on avoiding the harsh zone - Avoiding the Harsh Zone - Brew Your Own). Is the 150 crystal in your recipe Lovi or EBC?

Very dark crystal malts like Special B (150L, not the same as Special Roast which is said to produce a sourdough bread flavor), start to take on raisin like flavors, so only use these if that is the flavor profile you desire, and use them sparingly.

Below is a chart from Briess that shows a good caramel (crystal) malt flavor progression.

View attachment 708094

the crystal is 150 ebc, so it is a kinda light one.
as for the others tips, I am trying to brew this with malt, yeast and hops I already have at home, so I have changed the recipe to 5% Crystal 150/(was called light crystal before I think) and 2%carabohemian, the rest MO and 90 min boil.
I took Nottingham since it produces a clean malty profile, wich is what I am after.
What are some good dry yeasts to use for Bitters? Or are liqiud the way to go to really get a "typical" tasting bitter?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

the crystal is 150 ebc, so it is a kinda light one.

Based on some calculators that is about 56L - so more medium. Also, it looks like the Carabohemian (Weyerman caramel malt) is about 70L so you should be on target for the toffee flavor. 7% crystal should be good if you want some sweetness.

As far as yeast - both dry and liquid can make great beer.

I have used Notty and S-04 with good results. Both are enjoyed by many.

There are more liquid yeast varieties which is what I mostly use. Great options are...

WY1968 or WLP002 - Fuller's strain
WY1469 - Timothy Taylor strain (beware of this one's krausen, it can crawl out of anything. Blow off is not an option)
WLP007 - Dry English Ale

Can't go wrong with any of these.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Some good advice above. I'll add a few of my own thoughts....
You're well out of best bitter range (according to BJCP, not that they're an authority on British beer), and looking more at strong bitter or pale ale.
I personally prefer liquid yeasts for English bitter - they seem to be much more expressive and 'fruity' than any dry yeast I've used. I love notty, but it finishes quite clean. WY1968 is my preference for bitter.
An alternative to lowering the crystal % is to keep it higher but match it with corn to help thin the flavour and avoid finishing too sweet. 80% MO, 10% flaked corn, 10% crystal (a blend of medium and dark English) works nicely.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I'll go with 5%crystal 150 and 2%carabohemian, don't mind a little sweetness as i like full bodied ales tbh. Maybe change a bit if I find something that could be better. Seems it will create a bit too strong best bitter but what the hell, no one remembers a coward and it will probably be a decent ale none the less.
Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Elric]

no one remembers a coward

I think we just found the name of this new brew

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Just a last question, I decided to go with Nottingham yeast since I want to brev this with tings I have in order to rotate my supplies a bit. Should I ferment at closer to 20c to get a little ester flavour going since they are part of the flavor for tid beer and notty is a pretty clean strain, or is 18c good? I 'm Kinda undecided still.

 

[Miraculix]

Just a last question, I decided to go with Nottingham yeast since I want to brev this with tings I have in order to rotate my supplies a bit. Should I ferment at closer to 20c to get a little ester flavour going since they are part of the flavor for tid beer and notty is a pretty clean strain, or is 18c good? I 'm Kinda undecided still.

Ferment low. I had not so good experiences with notty in the higher range. If you want British esters, it is not the right strain as it is very clean.

You might want to copitch something like Windsor or you might want to switch completely to the new verdant strain from lallemand which looks promising, but I didn't try it yet. Also s04 might be a good option for you, if you can keep the temperature low.

You also might want to replace some of the base malt with on of the medium to darker invert syrups as the Brits usually do.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Ferment low. I had not so good experiences with notty in the higher range. If you want British esters, it is not the right strain as it is very clean.

+1. Notty at high temps throws banana and acetone, not English type esters.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I'll go with 18c then, might try this recipe a couple times with som different yeasts to find the most fitting one. S-04 feels a bit iffy for me since I made a Brown ale with it that had some really weird esters going, probably because it fermented in the 20's in the most active phase though(had no temp control) and I havent had the guts to try it again.

 

[Miraculix]

I'll go with 18c then, might try this recipe a couple times with som different yeasts to find the most fitting one. S-04 feels a bit iffy for me since I made a Brown ale with it that had some really weird esters going, probably because it fermented in the 20's in the most active phase though(had no temp control) and I havent had the guts to try it again.

Notty won't give you any esters and is muting hops quite a bit. If that's ok for you, go for it! I used to like this yeast but now I think it's the most boring yeast out there. Reliable, but boring. For an English bitter,I would choose something else. My favourite is pub from Imperial yeast, but that's not dry.

If I were you and be scared of 04 (which a lot of people complain about above 20c, I guess that this yeast is fine around 15c, I'm literally just having a blonde ale fermenting with this yeast at this temperature, so I will soon know), I would choose either a mix of notty and Windsor or I would test the new verdant IPA strain.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

You know what, I'll have a go with s-04 and keep the temp around 16-17 and see how it goes.

 

[Miraculix]

You know what, I'll have a go with s-04 and keep the temp around 16-17 and see how it goes.

Sounds good to me. But keep in mind that this yeast tends to ferment aggressively at the beginning, creating a lot of heat, so you somehow actively have to keep the temperature of the liquid down within this time.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Sounds good to me. But keep in mind that this yeast tends to ferment aggressively at the beginning, creating a lot of heat, so you somehow actively have to keep the temperature of the liquid low within this time.

I have a fridge with an external termostat hooked to the compressor and a heatpad and small frost guard,should do the trick I think