Russian Imperial stout recipe, how does it look?

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So, I'm gonna brew a bitter after the holidays and everything around it is done, and then I am thinking about having a go at an Imperial stout, nothing fancy, just an old school RIS style beer.
Thinking something like this:

10 liter batch, 70% eff( my for normal strenght beer is 75%, did a OG 1.065 where I would guesstimate the eff at 73% so 70% feels plausible)
est OG: 1.083
est FG 1.014
abv: 9.2%
IBU: ~65

Grain bill:
3.17kg 78% Maris otter
320g 8% Crystal 400/UK dark crystal(~460 ebc)
240g 6% Carafa 1 special
160g 4% UK black malt
160g 4% Rolled oats

hops:
19.3g Challenger 60 min
15.6g Fuggles 60 min
10g Whitbread golding 20 min
10g Bramling cross 20 min

Mash at 66c for 90 min and 2hr boil.

Ferment at 18 or 19c with mangrove jacks m42 new world strong ale.
Beersmith estimates the attenuation will be at the max capacity of that yeast, but I suspect my FG will be a little higher and abv a bit lower than it says.

Does anything look way off or is it a decent stout? I was thinking if the amount of dark crystal might make it a bit on the harsh side, but on the other hand I want the raisin/dried plum flavor that malt gives. should i reduce it and/or mix it with some lighter crystal?
 
I would probably back off the crystal malt a little but it sounds like you’re already weighing your options. RIS’s finish a little sticky and high on gravity (yeast dependent) without the addition of lots of crystal. Just something to consider while on the topic.
 
Might reduce the crystal to 6%. And maybe try doing something like 3/3% dark crystal/carabohemian if I'm not satisfied still. Trying to do a basic ***** ris recipe that's decent as it is and to use as a base for future experiments
 
You are on the right track. Maris Otter base malt is great, fuggles is great as is East Kent Goldings if you want something else, challenger is fine. I think the concern is the amount of Darkness you have going on. If you want something very bitter with nothing to offset it (like lactose for a milk stout) it might be a wee bit bitter/harsh. I have not converted the grams to lbs/oz but the look is a bit lopsided to me if you're working on a simple great tasting stout.

Crystal Malt 120 is my go to for the most part and I only use about a lb of it in my stout batches with roasted barely and maybe, MAYBE, a half ounce of chocolate malt or carafa I or II for a 5 gallon batch. I think you're gunning for 2.5 gallons (if my in-brain conversion still functions while sober), so we're talkin' roughly (rounding up):

7 lbs MO
11 oz C-400
8 oz Carafa I
6 oz Black Malt
6 oz Rolled Oats

So, upon conversion and some personal thoughts... I'd say you can swap some stuff around for a more general imp stout if you want. The Crystal Malt could be reduced to C-120 vs C-400 in a mix if you're looking for those date/raisin/plum flavors but not the harshness. In my 5 gallon batches I mix it up a bit more for complexity versus super bitter roast.

An Example of mine for 5 gallon/18.9 Liters would be
4.98 kg of Maris Otter
566 g Flaked Oats
453 g Munich Malt
226 g C-30
453 g C-120
226 g Chocolate Malt
226 g Roasted Barley
Hops of your choice (for me 1.5oz of Fuggles or EKG at 60 minutes, you can do more and more hop at different times, but I'm just keeping it simple and this recipe has won me an award or two which is funny how some people go crazy with hop additions for stouts when they are more about malt flavors than hops)
453 g coconut sugar (for nutrients and bumps the abv up a bit at last 15 minutes of boil)
Whirfloc/Irish Moss (if you want, it is a stout)
Your yeast selection is great and you could also use Nottingham as well.

If you want your abv to be higher you can also add some LME or DME or more coconut sugar, but mine usually starts at roughly 9% abv. I either add more coconut sugar (not often), or do some LME or DME at 15 minutes left. I have thought of double mashing but ultimately decided against it due to time constraints and not as much bang for your buck time-wise. If I am going for something epic in the 13% abv range I start looking at coconut sugar, maple syrup, and DME to push it the rest of the way if you want something massive.

As for mash temp 90 minutes is fine and I'd aim for 69c (hehe alright!) but 2 hours to boil is pretty lengthy and most likely too long, a 60 minute boil is more than sufficient.

Anywho, that is my suggestion and example at 18.9 liters. Do you want bitterness from roasts or do you want complexity. You will, or should, still get that date/raisin feel from what you are using anyway and to be honest, adding darker malts like C-400 doesn't necessarily amplify that taste at all. A lot of it is just a balancing act of your dark malts vs your crystal malts vs your lighter base malts. Regardless, add the coconut sugar, your yeast will love you for it.
 
Will switch the crystal to c-150 and use 6%instead. Don't have coconut sugar, but I have dark and light muscovado sugar, I suppose this would be in just a small amount to encourage the yeast to work all the way through?
Tbh I don't mind if FG is a wee bit higher and abv maybe 1% less than expected, more than that would be a problem though.
 
I think the recipe looks fine but your gravities are kinda off. Most imperial stouts finish quite a bit higher in FG that your beer. For instance Sierra Nevada’s standard 5.8% Stout finishes at 1.020 and their pretty standard and somewhat old school Narwhal finishes around 1.028-1.030. Most “modern” imperial stouts finish much much higher than that. The higher gravity helps to balance out the roast character and smooth the beer out considerably without necessarily adding any sweetness. Just for reference the highest regarded Robust Porter in the world finishes at 1.030 for a 7.5% beer. A lot of the dumb new Pastry Stouts finish north of 1.060 believe it or not.

Add a bunch more grain. If you’re mash tun can’t handle it use some DME or maltodextrin to boost the gravity without adding a bunch of sugar that could boost gravity without making the wort more fermentable.
 
I think the recipe looks fine but your gravities are kinda off. Most imperial stouts finish quite a bit higher in FG that your beer. For instance Sierra Nevada’s standard 5.8% Stout finishes at 1.020 and their pretty standard and somewhat old school Narwhal finishes around 1.028-1.030. Most “modern” imperial stouts finish much much higher than that. The higher gravity helps to balance out the roast character and smooth the beer out considerably without necessarily adding any sweetness. Just for reference the highest regarded Robust Porter in the world finishes at 1.030 for a 7.5% beer. A lot of the dumb new Pastry Stouts finish north of 1.060 believe it or not.

Add a bunch more grain. If you’re mash tun can’t handle it use some DME or maltodextrin to boost the gravity without adding a bunch of sugar that could boost gravity without making the wort more fermentable.
Beersmith has a habit of calculating the FG based on the max capacity of the yeast you are using, mash temps and does not take into account the composition of the grist. I am counting on a fair bit higher FG and lower abv than specified by BS. I am looking for a english style RIS, and those tend to be very roasty and often a little harsh, you think 8% dark crystal is fine?

Edit: Looked around a little on Swedish homebrewers assorted imp stouts, and most used dark crystal( I think brewers here are more leaning to the old english style of brewing malt heavy beers). So I'll keep the dark crystal but decrease the amount to 6%.
Also, do you guys think one pack of rehydrated m42 will be enough for this or should i pitch more?
 
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Will switch the crystal to c-150 and use 6%instead. Don't have coconut sugar, but I have dark and light muscovado sugar, I suppose this would be in just a small amount to encourage the yeast to work all the way through?
Tbh I don't mind if FG is a wee bit higher and abv maybe 1% less than expected, more than that would be a problem though.

The coconut sugar has similar if not exactly the same nutrients as many yeast nutrient packs like Wyeast and so on. So extra abv and nutrients for your yeast. Other sugar usually is just to bump of the ABV, which you can do if you want the beer to be a little stronger.
 
The coconut sugar has similar if not exactly the same nutrients as many yeast nutrient packs like Wyeast and so on. So extra abv and nutrients for your yeast. Other sugar usually is just to bump of the ABV, which you can do if you want the beer to be a little stronger.

Could you point me to some info that corroborates that statement about coconut sugar and it’s similarity to yeast nutrient?
 
Sure thing. :)

Standard yeast nutrient carries stuff like Thiamin and Biotin that help with cell growth, with magnesium and zinc to aid with cell count and metabolism. This stuff is standard in most yeast nutrients sold by pretty much everyone to some degree (some brands ratios are different). There is also standard amino acids in them as well, but again, every manufacturer has a different bled etc etc. This I probably don't need to explain but here is a short little meh summery on what is in yeast nutrient: What Is Yeast Nutrient? And How To Use It

Coconut palm sugar has all of that stuff in it too strangely enough. It has Magnesium and zinc, biotin and Thiamin packed right in it. It isn't healthy for you no matter what the livestrong or Dr. OZ says because I think it is mostly market as a healthier sugar alternative (but sugar is still damn sugar and is never that great for you, but we're brewing beer damnit!) but the information of what is in coconut palm sugar is accurate depending on brand. I usually buy mine on Amazon for about 4 bucks for 2.5 lbs.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/13729094-weight-loss-program-testimonials-noom/https://www.coconutoilshop.co.nz/coconut-sugar/
But yeah, I have been using the stuff instead of yeast nutrient when I want a beer to be a bit stronger. Again, both have similar nutrients found in them, the amounts are questionable, but if you toss a lb of coconut sugar in a 5 gallon batch vs a 1/4 teaspoon of yeast nutrient seems to be spot on for me. If I don't want a higher abv, then I use the yeast nutrient instead, it just depends.
 
For 20-25 liters of beer with a starting gravity of 1.083, I would use 3 sachets/packs. So that's 1.5 sachets. Use 2 full sachets and raise your OG with 5-10 points, and you will be fine.

I've put your recipe through a calculator and with 67% efficiency, you would end up with an OG of 1.083. To get down to 9.2% ABV your yeast apparent attenuation should be 85%. And you will not get that with your yeast of choice, even if you use sugars - maybe if you use 20% sugar, you might get up to 85% AA, but it will dry and thin your beer out.
 
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As said, I count with a bit higher FG than beersmith estimates, the actual abv I'm looking for is more around 8%, but I might bump it up to 1.086-1.088 and see if it gets me closer to my goal. Altough, with my yeast, mash and grain bill, the actual abv being about 1% lower than BS estimates seems plausible, right? BS can be a bit tricky like that sometimes with darker higher gravity beers, you have to make it a bit stronger than you actually want it kinda guesstimate what your actual FG will be.
 

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