Belgian Golden Strong - Candi Syrup?

[Hopper5000]

Hey All,

I am going to be brewing my first Golden Strong Ale soon and I was curious about if I should use candi syrup vs just corn sugar.

I was at my LHBS and was talking to one of the workers. He said I should for sure use candi syrup because it leaves a bit of residual flavor.

I then went and looked at the BJCP style guidelines and it explicitly states in there that upwards of 20% white sugar is in this recipe which leads me to believe that it's not necessary in this beer.

Just curious about thoughts on this? I mean cost isn't really a factor for me but were talking about 20 bucks of syrup vs about 3 bucks in corn sugar.

 

[ubnserved]

Candi sugar is made from beet sugar not corn syrup. The color of the candi is determined by how it was made. The process of making candi sugar and syrup creates unfermentables. The unfermentables add to the flavor and character of your finished beer. If you do not like the cost you can look for recipes here on the forum. And other places on the net. I know there are some here on the forum i have read through some of them several times.

 

[ubnserved]

Here is a link https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/table-sugar-versus-inverted-279313/ also like it says it will impart color to your beer.

 

[motorneuron]

This is one of those questions that you won't get a definitive answer on. As ubnserved says, there's a difference of opinion among the forum. So take everything I'm about to say with a grain of sugar.

Brew Like a Monk suggests that some of the actual Belgian breweries now just use plain old table sugar. Traditionally, they used clear candi sugar or syrup. The clear stuff is, chemically, inverted--that is, it takes sucrose and makes it into fructose and glucose. As far as I know, this process does not produce any (noticeable) quantity of unfermentables (unless you cook it for longer, which is how you get darker candi syrup--but not the clear stuff).

Instead, the reason that most people suggest that invert syrup is preferable to plain table sugar is that it's easier on the yeast. If it's added as sucrose, then the yeast have to create enzymes to metabolize it by breaking it into glucose and fructose. Invert syrup has this process done already, so you save the yeast one step.

But the ultimate question is whether this matters (and this is the question that people don't usually get to). You could imagine that by using sucrose and adding the metabolic step, you might stress the yeast. This could either mess with attenuation or create new (off) flavors or phenols or something else. In my experience, neither of those things happens with plain old table sugar. I personally use table sugar in my light-colored Belgians, and I have not noticed any problem with either attenuation or off-flavors (no dreaded cidery flavor, for example). This includes in delicately balanced, yeast-focused beers like "straight" tripels.

So, I don't know. For darker Belgians, you have to use cooked sugar to get the flavor right. There is no doubt that dubbels and quads need candi syrup (the dark stuff) or candi rocks. But that stuff has a strong flavor. For me personally, I see no reason to use clear candi syrup.

But, as I said, you will not find agreement on this point.

 

[chickypad]

I'm of the same mind as motorneuron. There is a big difference in flavor contribution from the various dark candi sugars/syrups IME. On the other hand I have made the same golden strong recipe with clear candi syrup and plain table sugar and noted no difference in taste. I've also used clear candi rocks a few times and again can't perceive a flavor contribution so I now use straight table sugar if the recipe calls for clear candi. I certainly have not trouble with attenuation. You should experiment for yourself though.

 

[Hopper5000]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I may just bring this syrup back to the LHBS and just use table sugar since I bought the "blonde/clear" stuff, but I'll have to check in with the person who I am doing this with.

I am also wondering if you all know if the syrup can go bad? Some of the bags I bought I noticed feel like they've crystallized (kinda like honey I would assume). I also have some syrup that's left over from a Triple I brewed a bout a year or so ago. I squeezed the air out of that one but I was just wondering if this stuff can go bad (similar to what can happen to LME/DME)?

 

[Hopper5000]

Curious why folks use table sugar vs just corn sugar, flavor differences?

 

[chickypad]

Curious why folks use table sugar vs just corn sugar, flavor differences?

In my case it's because table sugar is cheap and more likely to be found in my kitchen.

 

[ubnserved]

You are right on the clear candi, Motor. I guess I should have gone into more detail. It is just beet sugar and water. Not sure on the proportions. Beet sugar is table sugar you can look some packages of sugar and find out if it is cane sugar or beet sugar sometimes. Many sugar producers don't list because the they are afraid of the backlash from buyers who think they are buying cane sugar. I have found that store brands more often list if it cane or beet. Both are refined and are essentially the same thing. The real fact is sucrose from sugarcane and sugar beet is 99.95% identical and a 0.05% difference makes all the difference in taste of the two sugars. This small difference in composition is because of difference in minerals and proteins. Sugarcane is a grass where beets remain in the dirt. This is a big difference in itself that makes contents and proteins different in the two sucrose bearing crops. However, as the two are processed differently also, many of the differences in taste can be answered on account of processing. Other differences between the two are cane sugar melts easier. When making a creme brulee cane sugar caramelizes and beet sugar burns. Another difference is that cane sugar combines with other ingredients easier. I wouldn't know I suppose only a professional chef would notice the difference. I like to be as true to the original style of beer as possible unless I am experimenting. If you have the "Our Family" store brand sugar at your grocer it was beet sugar the last time I bought it and said so on the package.
I also don't suppose most people will notice a taste difference. I personally have never done a side by side taste test. PS I'm not trying to harp on the subject I just like learning new things and actually did a little research before writing this. Part of this was copied from ehow.
Hopper in response to your question about spoiled Candi. It has just formed larger crystals. If you were to use it, put the package in warm water then kneed the package when it gets warm. If it is a canister shake it. That usually does the trick for me. And no it is not spoiled.

 

[Hopper5000]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I have decided to use the 3/4 of a pound of candi syrup and just have the remainder be table or corn sugar. Leaning more towards table as it seems that is more technically true to style.