Belgian Bottles, corked and caged vs capped

[Xpertskir]

I keg a lot, but am beginning to realize that a lot of high CO2 volumes bottling is in my future, between saisons, trappists, and of course sours(barrels among other stuff).

I'm getting a pallet of belgian weight 750's but am having a hard time finding bulk cork and cage suppliers.

So a couple things.

Anyone aware of a good bulk supplier of belgian corks and cages? LD carlson does not offer them, BTW. The bottle manufacturer was also surprisingly no help.


Also, my mind then began to think about using the large caps instead, which would be cheaper and potentially easier.

Is there any reason not to use the large caps in lieu of corks and cages. I suppose if the cork is that important for long term aging I could bottle some like cantillon or fantom with wine corks under the caps.



Any advice is appreciated for either vendors or corks and cages vs caps(with or without cork under them).

 

[Coff]

I use the Fantome/Cantillon type bottles for most of my mixed fermentation stuff, or the capable Vinnie bottles. I have had success using them up to 4.0vols with only the 29mm cap.

A friend of mine does the wine cork and then 29mm cap on top, when you pop the cap you can see bubbles coming out of the cork and they come out with some force. I am comfortable with the heavy Fantome like bottles and the 29mm caps. There are more capable champagne type bottles out there then you think, like Dupont bottles take the 29mm despite that being a corked and caged beer.

Sorry, I dont where you can get the corks/cages in bulk, might want to ask a LHBS if you can piggy back on one of their bulk orders from the supplier.

 

[Xpertskir]

Thanks, yeah all the LHBS use LD carlson.

So reading into your comment you think that your buddy's technique(cantillon/fantome) is a waste and he should just skip the cork?





These are the bottles in questions, they take either cork and cage or 26mm(standard caps)

http://buyourbottles.com/amber-glass-bottles/glass-750ml-celebration

 

[Coff]

Yea I dont really see the point, Im sure that it helps a little bit but Im not sure.

The presentation is really nice though, I like the look of it over the classic Belgian cork look. But Im not really worried about appearances.

 

[xumbi]

Wow those bottles look perfect, no way I could order that many at once though.

I have never ordered from them, but I see these guys mentioned in other threads where people are looking for lots of corks and cages http://www.weekendbrewer.com/corksequipment.htm#Belgian Bottle Cork

I ordered 100 belgian wirehoods from http://labelpeelers.com/ once, but the sku is no longer available (they have champagne ones which might work?).

 

[xumbi]

double post

 

[TNGabe]

Xpertskir, If you've already ordered those bottles, stick with the caps. Those smaller 26mm bottles don't cork well. I think Ancorage was only commercial brewery corking them and they've switched to tradtional belgian-style 750s. Did you really order a whole pallet? Haha, I guess I'd have to if I didn't get bottles 2nd hand by the case from a brewery.

Coff, if you're friend is seeing bubbles around the cork, I think he's using too small of a cork. I think cantillon/fantome/de dolle may use a #9 rather than what was sold here as 'standard reference beer cork', but I'm not sure. The #9 is cheaper and easier to find and I've been meaning to do some test bottles with those.

I prefer the cap and cork combo to cork and cage, it's less expensive and easier. I've got a big bag of used cages, my cheap butt seems to think I can clip the old twist wire and secure with new wire, but I haven't tested it out yet. Probably not worth the trouble, but at .25$ each, worth finding out as I've got a bunch of the flat bottom no cap 750s I'll need to use at some point.

Maybe it's just with my capper, but I don't think the 29mm seal as well as 26mm. I've had some cap only 29mm leak in shipping, never with the 26.

 

[smokinghole]

I would say cap only works fine on 26mm. On 29mm I think the home cappers suck. That or the 29mm cap available to homebrewers are crap combined with the cappers. I have a bunch of "beer corks" and cages but hardly use them anymore. I tend to go with #9 wine corks and a cap because I hate twisting cages.

 

[Coff]

Coff, if you're friend is seeing bubbles around the cork, I think he's using too small of a cork. I think cantillon/fantome/de dolle may use a #9 rather than what was sold here as 'standard reference beer cork', but I'm not sure. The #9 is cheaper and easier to find and I've been meaning to do some test bottles with those.

My friend I was speaking of is Kirk, whom I think you hung out with at NHC Philly. Maybe the corks are too small, I dont know what sizes he is using. The bubbles we noticed last time looked like they were coming from the middle of the cork, but it could have been my drunk eyes.

 

[Xpertskir]

Ok, thanks a lot guys. I havent ordered yet, but am about to. Me and 2 friends have 3 full size barrel projects currently, with another one on the way. Not to mention other "normal" batch size sours, saisons, and other belgian styles. I suspect this won't be the last pallet I order.

I plan on cellaring some of the lambic and flanders style sours for upwards of 5-10 years, hence the cork conversation.

I'll definitely stick with caps, and see if #9 corks fit well in the necks of these bottles. Unfortunately the bottles I really want are manufactured further away and not price competitive.

 

[Gus_13]

I purchased similar bottles from a different vendor. It had 26mm tops and the corks are in there VERY tight. I believe I'm just going to cap this batch and then look for 29mm bottles next time. I'm just afraid it will be super tough to get the corks out unless the pressure builds up huge. Which can happen with some but a ton of styles aren't carbed high.

 

[chad_]

I purchased similar bottles from a different vendor. It had 26mm tops and the corks are in there VERY tight. I believe I'm just going to cap this batch and then look for 29mm bottles next time. I'm just afraid it will be super tough to get the corks out unless the pressure builds up huge. Which can happen with some but a ton of styles aren't carbed high.

Mind linking to the source for the bottles with 26mm tops?

 

[Gus_13]

Mind linking to the source for the bottles with 26mm tops?

No problem!

http://www.scotzinbros.com/beer-bottles-and-bottling-equipment/750ml-amber-champagne-bottles-for-12


Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Gus_13]

BTW just bottled a Farmhouse with the Yeast Bay Wallonian Farmhouse yeast. Went from 1.064 to 1.001 in two week. I added my dextrose and started bottling with the bottles I linked above. While I was waiting to cap some, I left the caps sitting on about 6 bottles. That yeast woke back up and the caps were popping, releasing some gasses already. So this will be a true test to these bottles on the strength of capping vs. corking.

PS> I've never seen that happen before. Especially after 48 hrs cold crashing.