Belgian ale, I'm trying and failing.. but now?

[PberBob]

What temperature do you ferment using 3522 Ardennes? I have had mixed success with this yeast, but I think it was (mostly) due to poor temperature control. I just got a glycol chiller and am planning to try again soon.

I start at 64-5 and finish at about 72 F. I’ve never tried to push it towards 80. (I can’t get and stay there. It cools down overnight here.). I’m thinking about it though.

 

[Beekeeper]

Brew Like a Monk is a good read.

Just located and ordered a used copy from AbeBooks. $7.01 including shipping. Looking forward to reading that one.

Title: Brew Like a Monk: Trappist, Abbey, and Strong Belgian Ales and How to Brew Them
Author: Hieronymus, Stan

 

[bwible]

1999-2000 timeframe I came down with an autoimmune disorder that I swear to this day was from drinking Belgian beer. I had just discovered it. I kind of proved it because after I got better I was fine until I drank Belgian beer again and came down with the same thing again very shortly after. I have not drank Belgian beer since and I have not been sick since. I won’t touch it now.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

1999-2000 timeframe I came down with an autoimmune disorder that I swear to this day was from drinking Belgian beer. I had just discovered it. I kind of proved it because after I got better I was fine until I drank Belgian beer again and came down with the same thing again very shortly after. I have not drank Belgian beer since and I have not been sick since. I won’t touch it now.

Often times when I drink Belgian beers, I have problems with my balance and have a hard time walking. lol

 

[davidabcd]

I have not been sick since. I won’t touch it now.

It's a happy ending.
I won't eat White Castles after ejecting from both ends at the same time for two hours. I know it was probably just someone who had poop on their hands and didn't wash before they made my yummy sliders but I just can't go to White Castles (20 years). My situation was just temporary.
Did you ever discover what the Belgian problem was?

 

[KeizerBrewr]

It's really hard to say specifically. You could get three different beers using three different yeasts on the same recipe. Brew Like a Monk is a very good book. I have it in my brew library, have read through it a few times, but always reference it when I am building or tweaking my Belgian recipes. If I were you, go down the list of Belgian styles and taste them, using a tasting note sheet, like this one. On a related note: I do this with my Wife so she can become more knowledgeable in tasting and picking apart a brew. I do this with ALL of my beers, helps with tweaking recipes. But I digress, look into the BJCP and see the styles and the mentioned commercial brews that fit that style. That being said, Brother Thelonious by North Coast is quite good and is a Dark Strong Ale or a "Quadrupel", BJCP Style 26D. St Bernardus Abt 12 is a very good option as well. This also is where the Belgian style is broken into three categories: 24(Belgian Ale), 25(Strong Belgian Ale) and 26(Monastic Ale). Singles, Dubbels, Tripels and Dark Strong Ale/Quadrupel are Monastic. I would start in that category first and then work into 24 and 25. My input for you is explore that and figure out what you like, then dig into the recipe that is Brother Thelonious. Here is a 2.5G recipe I found that you could likely scale and tweak. You could use Wyeast 1388 or WLP530. Definitely start toward the bottom of the temperature range and let it slowly rise on it's own to finish.

 

[chthon]

Banana

You will find it in a whole lot of trappist beers (Westmalle) and abbey beers.

But there is no general category Belgian beers. We have

• The trappist beers
  • Blonde tripels
  • (Relatively) light and strong dark beers
• A whole lot of abbey beers
• Speciale Belge, or Belgian Pale Ale
• Saisons of course
• Lambic and gueuze, and the derived fruit beers
• The strong blond beers like Duvel, Omer and Filou
• and then we have a whole lot of new brewers who go crazy (Brussels Beer Project is very create, or 'T Verzet, White Pony Microbrewery)
• Beers like Kasteel Donker, Gouden Carolus and Straffe Hendrik

The banana you will find it actually more in blond beers. The dark beers seem to have it less.

My personal favorites: Westmalle Tripel, WV12, St.-Bernardus Tripel and Abt 12, Rochefort 8 and 10, Kasteel Donker, Martha Brown Eyes.

Since a couple of years I ferment my abbey/trappist style beers open (covered by cheese cloth), and I underpitch a little bit (0.65 instead of minimum 0.75). Except for placing my fermentation vessel in a room with a relatively stable temperature, I don't do any temperature control.

 

[An Ankoù]

Nice to see you here @chthon . I love and I don't love Belgian ales. The first because they're usually gorgeous and the second because a beer-swilling Englishman like myself doesn't stay standing for very long after a couple of gallons or three. chthon's right; there are as many styles of Belgian ale as there are US beers and its difficult to know what the OP means when he or she says that he likes the character of a particular beer because it doesn't have the flavours that he or she dislikes. I bit more description would be appreciated. In the meantime, I'll check out Bro Thelonius.
@chthon , do you underpitch to increase the POF of the yeast by stressing it a bit?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I have a brew day coming up where I will take a stab of something similair to Brother Thelonius. It's not a clone by all means, but at least shares the statistics of it and got a thumbs up from the brewer, Patrick. He didn't say what yeast they're using so I picked something labelled as "clean" from wyeast (1762) and I'm going to ferment it on the cold side. Time will tell whether I'll make something I like or not... at least I'm trying

Did you brew the beer? If so, how did it turn out?

 

[aceluby]

You will find it in a whole lot of trappist beers (Westmalle) and abbey beers.

But there is no general category Belgian beers. We have

• The trappist beers
  • Blonde tripels
  • (Relatively) light and strong dark beers
• A whole lot of abbey beers
• Speciale Belge, or Belgian Pale Ale
• Saisons of course
• Lambic and gueuze, and the derived fruit beers
• The strong blond beers like Duvel, Omer and Filou
• and then we have a whole lot of new brewers who go crazy (Brussels Beer Project is very create, or 'T Verzet, White Pony Microbrewery)
• Beers like Kasteel Donker, Gouden Carolus and Straffe Hendrik

The banana you will find it actually more in blond beers. The dark beers seem to have it less.

My personal favorites: Westmalle Tripel, WV12, St.-Bernardus Tripel and Abt 12, Rochefort 8 and 10, Kasteel Donker, Martha Brown Eyes.

Since a couple of years I ferment my abbey/trappist style beers open (covered by cheese cloth), and I underpitch a little bit (0.65 instead of minimum 0.75). Except for placing my fermentation vessel in a room with a relatively stable temperature, I don't do any temperature control.

This. So much this. Belgian beers are known for the amount of variety they have. I don’t think you can dislike Belgian beers as a whole. It would be like saying you dislike all American beers. There’s just no way you can say that unless you just don’t like beer (and even then, I’d say it’s pretty suspect). Likely you just haven’t gotten your hands on the one you like. I’m currently drinking the New Belgian honey trippel that’s delicious, but dangerous. Sweet, but easy drinking. I have my own trippel brewed with abbey yeast that is bottle conditioning- but the uncarbonated taste is a banana spice, not unlike a weizen. I also have a Belgian strong made with corriander, ginger, and grains of paradise that is currently fermenting. I think the biggest thing is to try as many as you can find and see what flavors work for you

 

[schmurf]

Sorry I haven't updated on this. Yes of course there are a huge variety of Belgian ales and me saying "I don't like Belgians" is probably just showing my ignorance about it.

So yes, I brewed the beer and followed recommendations mentioned above but did a last minute change. I wanted the outcome to be "as clean as possible" (whatever that means) but still with a recognisable Belgian character (also, whatever that means.... I guess it's just something I define as Belgian in my mind). It might be a blasphemy but I first pitched with a package of US05 and when I noticed things started to kick off I added a SNS of WY1762.

The outcome was pretty good, it's my best attempt of something Belgian so far and good enough for me to want to give it a new try and with some further tweaks. I appreciate all your inputs!

 

[chthon]

Nice to see you here @chthon . I love and I don't love Belgian ales. The first because they're usually gorgeous and the second because a beer-swilling Englishman like myself doesn't stay standing for very long after a couple of gallons or three. chthon's right; there are as many styles of Belgian ale as there are US beers and its difficult to know what the OP means when he or she says that he likes the character of a particular beer because it doesn't have the flavours that he or she dislikes. I bit more description would be appreciated. In the meantime, I'll check out Bro Thelonius.
@chthon , do you underpitch to increase the POF of the yeast by stressing it a bit?

I underpitch to indeed stress the yeast more, but there also seem to be some references on the internet which say that Belgian yeasts should be underpitched a little, that they give better performance.

On the other hand, since I also ferment open, I think some of the stresses are reduced.

Well, my beers always come out well and keep their taste a long time. Nobody who tastes them ever complains. Let's turn that around: people always ask if they can have more.