Beginner Help Authentic Belgium Sours

[TEWNCfarms]

ive decided to finally go the home brew route considering the beers I truly love are so expensive. I want to brew authentic style Belgium & Netherlands sour beer.

I have access to tons of food grade 5 gallon pickle buckets, can I use these to ferment 5 gallon batches or will I need to do only 4 gallons?

What’s the equipment I’d need? Airlocks, spigots, tubes, sanitizer, ingredients; what else?

Should I just buy some beer ingredients “kits” to get started? Or buy ingredients individually?

Also can I add a piece of toasted oak to the buckets to mimic the beer fermenting in barrels?

And what about capturing native yeasts in the open air like they do overseas?

Sorry for so many questions, I appreciate your help and look forward to learning a lot from you all and the tremendous amount of information on this forum!

 

[Qhrumphf]

BelgiAN. Not BelgiUM. We don't drink Germany Pils or America IPA. Or France Fries.

Belgium is a country. Things that come from Belgium are Belgian.

More directly to the question, a 5 gallon bucket won't produce 5 gals of beer. Either bigger bucket or smaller batch.

Additionally, a bucket will allow too much oxygen ingress over the aging of a proper sour (a quick kettle sour will fare better in a bucket, but that's a different beer than what you're referring to) and produce a substandard product. Either use a glass carboy or make a FULL wine barrel's worth (~55 gals at a time). Smaller barrels will be even worse than buckets. With a glass carboy, oak cubes or spirals will get the job done.

Capturing wild yeast is certainly doable, but not easy. My best, simple results have come from pitching a commercial (lackluster) sour blend, then immediately (and regularly thereafter) followed up with dregs from non-pasteurized commercial sours (mostly Oude Gueuze, but some American stuff as well, see The Mad Fermentationist for lists of dregs with viable bugs).

 

[IslandLizard]

+1 to that^ and The Mad Fermentationist blog.

Don't forget to read around in our own Lambic and Wild Beer Forum.

 

[IslandLizard]

Have you brewed or fermented anything before?

 

[TEWNCfarms]

BelgiAN. Not BelgiUM. We don't drink Germany Pils or America IPA. Or France Fries.

Belgium is a country. Things that come from Belgium are Belgian.

More directly to the question, a 5 gallon bucket won't produce 5 gals of beer. Either bigger bucket or smaller batch.

Additionally, a bucket will allow too much oxygen ingress over the aging of a proper sour (a quick kettle sour will fare better in a bucket, but that's a different beer than what you're referring to) and produce a substandard product. Either use a glass carboy or make a FULL wine barrel's worth (~55 gals at a time). Smaller barrels will be even worse than buckets. With a glass carboy, oak cubes or spirals will get the job done.

Capturing wild yeast is certainly doable, but not easy. My best, simple results have come from pitching a commercial (lackluster) sour blend, then immediately (and regularly thereafter) followed up with dregs from non-pasteurized commercial sours (mostly Oude Gueuze, but some American stuff as well, see The Mad Fermentationist for lists of dregs with viable bugs).

Haha thanks for my English lesson, almost all other nations can speak multiple languages and English better than I can and I sadly minored in writing haha.

But thanks for the info, what about a 5 gallon bucket with a lid and an air lock?

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

What he was saying in reference to the 5 gallon bucket question is that if your fermentation vessel only has a 5 gallon capacity, you wouldn't get a full 5 gallon batch. The vessel needs enough headspace to allow for krausen buildup (which can sometimes be quite a bit. Several gallons of headspace worth, in a few of my previous experiences), plus what will be lost in the bottom to trub (left over bits of proteins, yeast, hop debris, etc) when it comes time to racking.

If you put 4 gallons into a 5 gallon bucket you may end up with a mess to clean up, but even if not you will still likely only have 3-3.5G of finished product in the end.

If you have never brewed anything before, I highly recommend brewing some easier recipe kits to get a good feel for the process/equipment/temp control/sanitation before jumping into such a long process (sours which can sit for a year or more to develop flavor). Just my $.02

Cheers!

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Have you brewed or fermented anything before?

I’ll check it out thanks! And no I have not...

 

[TEWNCfarms]

What he was saying in reference to the 5 gallon bucket question is that if your fermentation vessel only has a 5 gallon capacity, you wouldn't get a full 5 gallon batch. The vessel needs enough headspace to allow for krausen buildup (which can sometimes be quite a bit. Several gallons of headspace worth, in a few of my previous experiences), plus what will be lost in the bottom to trub (left over bits of proteins, yeast, hop debris, etc) when it comes time to racking.

If you put 4 gallons into a 5 gallon bucket you may end up with a mess to clean up, but even if not you will still likely only have 3-3.5G of finished product in the end.

If you have never brewed anything before, I highly recommend brewing some easier recipe kits to get a good feel for the process/equipment/temp control/sanitation before jumping into such a long process (sours which can sit for a year or more to develop flavor). Just my $.02

Cheers!

Thanks for the advice! I’ll do some regular runs first to get a feel for it, I definitely would be real upset if I waited for a year and it was bunk. What size would I need to do a 5 gallon batch? Or could I split it up in two buckets?

 

[IslandLizard]

If you have never brewed anything before, I highly recommend brewing some easier...

That's also good advice!
You need to be able to make good beer to get good sours. There's a lot more to it than mixing a few cans of malt syrup with some lukewarm water and sprinkling a package of yeast over it. There are techniques to be mastered. Read as much as you can and understand the underlying processes. If you really want to get into this, read and study the Mad Fermentationist blog, and I can recommend picking up a copy of American Sour Beers written by him (Michael Tonsmeire).

Not saying you can't use extracts for mixed fermentations, which is the name of the process that creates most of these beers and their complexity, but brewing all grain allows you to use the right ingredients and gives you the control you need. Then a year, 2 years, or 3 years later you find out whether you did it right, what needs to be tweaked, or you need to go back to the drawing board. In the meantime brew more beer and sour some of those to build up your reserve for the years after that, etc.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the advice! I’ll do some regular runs first to get a feel for it, I definitely would be real upset if I waited for a year and it was bunk. What size would I need to do a 5 gallon batch? Or could I split it up in two buckets?

Many (most) of us use 6.5 gallon brew buckets. That allows for 5.5 gallons of wort to be fermented with a gallon of headspace left, and half a gallon of trub left behind, for a net of 5 gallons to be bottled, kegged, or moved to a 5 gallon glass carboy (or keg) for bulk aging, souring etc.
Sometimes, leaving 1.5 gallons of headspace is needed to prevent lots of blow off, which is wasted beer and potentially messy.

Sure, you can ferment in multiple buckets and combine them later when packaging or moving the beer to a secondary process.
You have to keep in mind the volumes needed for your next step. For example, if you end up with 3.5 gallons of beer from your 5 gallon buckets, you cannot fill a 5 gallon glass carboy or (stainless) keg with that to be used as a secondary. You'd need 2 of those buckets, and you're left with 1.5 gallons of beer. You may be able to fill other or smaller (secondary) fermentors with the leftovers, or add to your solera which are not bad alternatives at all.

I have a bunch of 3.5 gallon buckets I can ferment "half" batches in. I do that very occasionally, usually to split a batch using different yeasts or additives, and other experimental brews. They have the same footprint as regular 6.5 gallon buckets, so one needs a ferm chamber (modified fridge or freezer) that can accomodate them or is tall enough to stack them using a shelf, to optimize space. In the end they only fill 2 kegs half way, which is often plenty for what they are.

 

[Qhrumphf]

My bucket point was two-fold. The headspace and yeast loss issue, as said, a good rule of thumb is 6.5 gals bucket and 5.5 gals of beer, so that after a typical half gallon lost to yeast/trub at the bottom you get 5 gals packaged.

The bigger issue with buckets and long term sours is oxygen. This isn't an issue for a faster turnaround beer. But even with a lid and an airlock, the bucket walls themselves will allow enough oxygen through them over time to cause flavor problems.

Now, depending on the beer you want, some oxygen could be important, as Lambic is wood aged after all and wood allows oxygen through as well. On the other hand Oud Bruin is traditionally fermented in stainless which is not permeable to oxygen, resulting in a cleaner sour (less Brett expression, no acetic) than its other Belgian sour cousins.

But either way too much is bad and will cause a special breed of off-flavors (or flavors in excess). Buckets and small barrels (the 5 gallon "hombrew barrel") are both too much. A 10 gal barrel is an improvement. A 55 gal wine barrel is what is normally used by breweries. With wood it's surface to liquid- the oxygen ingress goes down as vessel size goes up- with the massive foudres sometimes used (especially in Flemish sours although they're more widespread now) the level is almost nothing.

In the book "Wild Brews" there's an illumimating chart demonstrating this (buy the book if these are the styles you're interested in, Tonsmeire's American Sour Beers too although I have it on my shelf but haven't gotten to reading it yet). A glass carboy is a great solution for homwbrewers. While the glass itself is impermeable like stainless, the bung and airlock will allow a slight amount in- approximating that of a smaller barrel (a 10 gal barrel). In both cases this is a bit more than a wine barrel, but a FAR improvement over a bucket, which lets in TWENTY TIMES more oxygen than a wine barrel. Replacing the silicone bung/airlock with a wooden stopper after active fermentation is over drops it down to foudre levels.

 

[Qhrumphf]

My recommendation is a 6.5-7 gal bucket, put 5.5-5.75 gals of wort in, when active fermentation is over, rack to 5 gal glass and leave it there with the carboy completely full.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Swoo this is a lot! Haha I knew there was a lot to learn but you all keep throwing out all these words I didn’t even knew existed. Thanks so much for your help IslandLizard and Qhrumpf, I’ve got a lot of reading to do.!

So I guess why I keep bringing up the 5 gallon buckets is the Huge save of money I’d have, I don’t really have the cash to spend on the glass bottles. So I guess that’s my question is what’s the most economical way of doing real sours? I’d really love to use the 5 gallon buckets, but I’ve got to long Not listened to seasoned veterans like you all on multiple subjects and ended up with inferior products of whatever I’ve done, so I want to heed the advice given.

 

[IslandLizard]

I don’t really have the cash to spend on the glass bottles

For long term aging beer and wine in small batches there aren't many alternatives. For sour aging I use a bunch of glass carboys in various sizes I've picked up off CraigsList over the years and another 8 from a sour-brewing friend who was scaling down. I probably paid between $20-30 a piece for those, depending on size. Glass bottles of that size can be dangerous, when they break they can cause serious injuries, so one has to be very careful handling them. I also use spare corny kegs. Sometimes you can pick those up for $20-25 a piece off Craigslist, often old pin locks, but fine for the job.

So you can use the cheap 5 gallons pickle buckets for primary fermentations, but after a few weeks you need to move the beer to a more gas-tight vessel for the long haul. Make sure there's no pickle aroma left in them, whatsoever. First give them a good scrub with washing soda, Oxiclean or (homemade) PBW, perhaps even a prolonged bleach soak, followed by a good rinse out. Then leave them outside, exposing the insides to bright sunlight for a couple weeks. There should be no smell left in them.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

For long term aging beer and wine in small batches there aren't many alternatives. For sour aging I use a bunch of glass carboys in various sizes I've picked up off CraigsList over the years and another 8 from a sour-brewing friend who was scaling down. I probably paid between $20-30 a piece for those, depending on size. Glass bottles of that size can be dangerous, when they break they can cause serious injuries, so one has to be very careful handling them. I also use spare corny kegs. Sometimes you can pick those up for $20-25 a piece off Craigslist, often old pin locks, but fine for the job.

So you can use the cheap 5 gallons pickle buckets for primary fermentations, but after a few weeks you need to move the beer to a more gas-tight vessel for the long haul. Make sure there's no pickle aroma left in them, whatsoever. First give them a good scrub with washing soda, Oxiclean or (homemade) PBW, perhaps even a prolonged bleach soak, followed by a good rinse out. Then leave them outside, exposing the insides to bright sunlight for a couple weeks. There should be no smell left in them.

Awesome thanks for the advice! You or Qhrumphf mention the small wooden barrels aren’t good... why? That’s what I initially wanted to do, but why wouldn’t these work? Especially if the glass are so dangerous? Are the glass carboys susceptible to explosions? Or just from dropping on the floor or things on them?

 

[IslandLizard]

Awesome thanks for the advice! You or Qhrumphf mention the small wooden barrels aren’t good... why? That’s what I initially wanted to do, but why wouldn’t these work? Especially if the glass are so dangerous? Are the glass carboys susceptible to explosions? Or just from dropping on the floor or things on them?

The small wooden barrels have too much wood surface compared to their volume. So they a) let relatively too much oxygen through for the amount of beer inside (oxidation), and b) due to their large surface to volume ratio lend too much wood character too quickly. 2-4 weeks maybe too woody already, even when the barrels were previously used a few times.

Wooden barrels aren't exactly cheap either, but sometimes you can find some gems at a local brewery.

Yeah, glass from accidental dropping mostly, or stress related sudden fractures. Glass carboys coming from China can be a real lottery since QC is virtually non-existent there. We have a thread on some gruesome examples.

So look for Italian or Mexican made glass carboys, preferably. And wear protective clothing and gloves.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Soooo....
I'd suggest to learn to brew quality ales (including quality Lacto/Sacc mixed sours) before jumping into mixed Brett/Pedio fermentation sours and advanced blending techniques needed to make classic European wild sours.

As mentioned, HDPE lets too much oxygen through to be useful for long-term aging of sours. Glass or stainless is good. PET or large barrels are better (Brett is microaerophilic).

There's a lot to learn about the basics of brewing.

Edit: typo

 

[IslandLizard]

PET or large barrels are better

Can he use PET containers (e.g., Better Bottle, etc.) for long term aging? How about the bung?

But agreed, he needs to be able to brew a good (clean) beer first.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Soooo....
I'd suggest to learn to brew quality ales (including quality Lacto/Sacc mixed sours) before jumping into mixed Brett/Pedio fermentation sours and advanced blending techniques needed to make classic European wild sours.

As mentioned, HDPE lets too much oxygen through to be useful for long-term aging of sours. Glass is good. PET or large barrels are better (Brett is microaerophilic).

There's a lot to learn about the basis of brewing.

Thanks, see like those last words and abbreviations in the second paragraph are throwing me for a loop!

I definitely after talking with you all will brew some plain beers, get the feel, and then work up to sours.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Can he use PET containers (e.g., Better Bottle, etc.) for long term aging? How about the bung?

But agreed, he needs to be able to brew a good (clean) beer first.

To you, and all the others, would this work?!? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FBWSTC8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Can he use PET containers (e.g., Better Bottle, etc.) for long term aging? How about the bung?

But agreed, he needs to be able to brew a good (clean) beer first.

So I guess here’s my question on all this, if in Belgian... they let beer sit and ferment in the open air, usually in those Huge vats with open air, why would the 5 gallon bucket be so bad? Or are they doing the initial/active ferment in the big vat and Then movin it to big wine barrels?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Can he use PET containers (e.g., Better Bottle, etc.) for long term aging? How about the bung?

Absolutely. In fact, mike T, whom both you and qhrumphf referenced, uses PET.
Standard airlocks are fine. I prefer breathable silicone because it seals better.

@TEWNCfarms
I prefer ported Fermonsters (PET). The port helps limit oxygen introduction.

Open fermentation is a relatively very short time, only to introduce microbes. Professional sour breweries ferment in mainly oak (foeders and barrels).

Sours is one of the main reasons I homebrew. Unlike most others, I save a lot of money homebrewing vs buying the type of beer I love

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Absolutely. In fact, mike T, whom both you and qhrumphf referenced, uses PET.
Standard airlocks are fine. I prefer breathable silicone because it seals better.

@TEWNCfarms
I prefer ported Fermonsters (PET). The port helps limit oxygen introduction.

Open fermentation is a relatively very short time, only to introduce microbes. Professional sour breweries ferment in mainly oak (foeders and barrels).

Sours is one of the main reasons I homebrew. Unlike most others, I save a lot of money homebrewing vs buying the type of beer I love

Awesome thanks for your help! I just saw the fermonster on eBay when looking, I didn’t know if it was good.

What do you mean by silicon? Silicon airlock, or bottle?

What is your gear and routine like?

 

[IslandLizard]

I prefer breathable silicone because it seals better.

But is more permeable than rubber or wood...

 

[RPh_Guy]

What do you mean by silicon? Silicon airlock, or bottle?

What is your gear and routine like?

I use these on all my fermonsters: https://www.morebeer.com/products/carboy-bung-silicone-breathable-10.html
6-gal Fermonster: https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermonster-6-gallon-ported-carboy-spigot-included.html
Spigot: https://www.morebeer.com/products/plastic-spigot-bucket-sediment-block.html

I brew all-grain, usually 5.5 gal batches nowadays for beer. My process varies a lot depending on what I'm brewing. I bottle everything and I have a yeast ranch with different Brett cultures from dregs and yeast labs.
I keep one separate Fermonster for "clean" beers.

Homebrewing is a lot of fun and there are tons of options for gear, processes, and recipes. If you have questions about anything specific I'd be happy to help!

But is more permeable than rubber or wood...

That's probably true (not sure about wood).
However, if a solid stopper gets pushed out it could be catastrophic since it may not be noticed for a while.
Traditional airlock can let in a lot of oxygen with a flexible fermentation vessel or significant temperature fluctuation.
With the silicone I'm guaranteed only trace oxygen at presumably constant rate, which is perfect in my opinion. Plus I don't need to check to make sure it's full. Downside is price?

 

[TEWNCfarms]

I use these on all my fermonsters: https://www.morebeer.com/products/carboy-bung-silicone-breathable-10.html
6-gal Fermonster: https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermonster-6-gallon-ported-carboy-spigot-included.html
Spigot: https://www.morebeer.com/products/plastic-spigot-bucket-sediment-block.html

I brew all-grain, usually 5.5 gal batches nowadays for beer. My process varies a lot depending on what I'm brewing. I bottle everything and I have a yeast ranch with different Brett cultures from dregs and yeast labs.
I keep one separate Fermonster for "clean" beers.

Homebrewing is a lot of fun and there are tons of options for gear, processes, and recipes. If you have questions about anything specific I'd be happy to help!


That's probably true (not sure about wood).
However, if a solid stopper gets pushed out it could be catastrophic since it may not be noticed for a while.
Traditional airlock can let in a lot of oxygen with a flexible fermentation vessel or significant temperature fluctuation.
With the silicone I'm guaranteed only trace oxygen at presumably constant rate, which is perfect in my opinion. Plus I don't need to check to make sure it's full. Downside is price?

Awesome thanks so much! So the silicone bung goes in the top correct? And that fermonster already has a hole in the lid for it?

https://www.morebeer.com/products/d...Bx176yAzhljfmOqTh0t2t0XUepNQeiJ0aAkbdEALw_wcB
Should I buy this kit to get started, and then buy some more of those fermonsters and silicone bungs like you said so I can make sours later? Or should I just buy all these utensils separate?

It says in the instructions with that kit that I have to transfer the beer after ferment to the “bottling bucket” and Then bottle. Do I have to? Or can I just bottle straight from the fermonster?

I prefer sediment in my beer, which is how the real beers are, and they actually pour it into the glass unlike in America we say to not pour it in our glass. So are there ways to help have the sediment like bottling from the fermonster? or will that come from the final bottle sugar carbonation?

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[TEWNCfarms]

I use these on all my fermonsters: https://www.morebeer.com/products/carboy-bung-silicone-breathable-10.html
6-gal Fermonster: https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermonster-6-gallon-ported-carboy-spigot-included.html
Spigot: https://www.morebeer.com/products/plastic-spigot-bucket-sediment-block.html

I brew all-grain, usually 5.5 gal batches nowadays for beer. My process varies a lot depending on what I'm brewing. I bottle everything and I have a yeast ranch with different Brett cultures from dregs and yeast labs.
I keep one separate Fermonster for "clean" beers.

Homebrewing is a lot of fun and there are tons of options for gear, processes, and recipes. If you have questions about anything specific I'd be happy to help!


That's probably true (not sure about wood).
However, if a solid stopper gets pushed out it could be catastrophic since it may not be noticed for a while.
Traditional airlock can let in a lot of oxygen with a flexible fermentation vessel or significant temperature fluctuation.
With the silicone I'm guaranteed only trace oxygen at presumably constant rate, which is perfect in my opinion. Plus I don't need to check to make sure it's full. Downside is price?

Also, do I pour the wort directly into the fermonster with the silicone bung for the initial/active ferment, or does it need to go in one with an airlock first then put on the bung?

 

[RPh_Guy]

So the silicone bung goes in the top correct? And that fermonster already has a hole in the lid for it?

Correct!

Should I buy this kit to get started, and then buy some more of those fermonsters and silicone bungs like you said so I can make sours later? Or should I just buy all these utensils separate?

I bought this kit when I upgraded to 5 gallon batches:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/premium-home-brewing-kit.html
There's a 15% off coupon START15
It's a great kit at a great price imo.

There's so many options for all the setups you could use it's hard to even list all of them. I'll just tell you what I use:
I started with that kit.
I have a 10 gallon converted cooler and 5 gallon stainless kettle so I can mash in the cooler and batch sparge.

For my heat source I use propane and a bayou classic sq14 camp stove.

I use this thermometer to measure water and mash temp https://www.morebeer.com/products/brewing-thermometer-2-12.html

Simple aeration tool https://www.morebeer.com/products/siphon-spray-wort-aerator.html

I use a stir plate and a couple 1L borosilicate erlenmeyer flasks to make starters. I have yeast nutrient and DME.

Foam control to prevent boil overs or starter foaming
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermcaps-foam-control-1-oz.html

For temperature control I use an inkbird thermostat
https://www.morebeer.com/products/inkbird-digital-temperature-controller.html
A fermwrap for heating
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermwrap-heater.html
And a second-hand fridge for cooling.
Stick-on thermometers are used for my aging carboys https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermometer-adhesive-thermometer.html

For bottling I got a bottle washer
https://www.morebeer.com/products/blast-carboy-bottle-washer.html
A sanitizer injector
https://www.morebeer.com/products/economy-sanitizer-injector-stationary-bottle-tree.html
And FastRack for drying
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fastrack-beer-bottle-drying-rack-storage-system.html

I have a small scale with 0.01g resolution for small measurements and an UltraShip-55 for measuring grain. I mill my own with a KegCo 3-roller mill (Monster Mill clone).

I have a pH meter, calibration & storage solution.
I have measuring spoons, measuring cups, some test tubes, a test tube holder, a couple graduated cylinders and beakers for various purposes.

Various salts and lactic acid for water chemistry. I buy RO water for most brews and I have water jugs for that.

I use a high resolution hydrometer to track FG on slow sours
https://www.morebeer.com/products/final-gravity-hydrometer.html

My yeast ranch is in 8oz Ball jars.

I got the lid opener for convenience
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermonster-lid-opener.html
I have 7 fermonsters and acquiring more.

Homemade PBW for cleaning. I got a spray bottle for StarSan.

I use freebie Brewer's Friend and Brunwater for recipe creation.

It says in the instructions with that kit that I have to transfer the beer after ferment to the “bottling bucket” and Then bottle. Do I have to? Or can I just bottle straight from the fermonster?

You certainly can bottle directly from the fermenter (you need to add priming sugar to each individual bottle) but I find it easier to batch prime in a bottling vessel.

All bottle-carbonated homebrew has sediment in the bottle, even when it's fully clear at bottling time.

Also, do I pour the wort directly into the fermonster with the silicone bung for the initial/active ferment, or does it need to go in one with an airlock first then put on the bung?

On my 7 gal Fermonster I just use the silicone airlock. YMMV.
On my 6 gal I use a blow-off tube into a bottle of starsan (3/8" tube through a #10 drilled rubber stopper) for the vigorous part of fermentation before switching to the airlock.

Cheers

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Correct!


I bought this kit when I upgraded to 5 gallon batches:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/premium-home-brewing-kit.html
There's a 15% off coupon START15
It's a great kit at a great price imo.

There's so many options for all the setups you could use it's hard to even list all of them. I'll just tell you what I use:
I started with that kit.
I have a 10 gallon converted cooler and 5 gallon stainless kettle so I can mash in the cooler and batch sparge.

For my heat source I use propane and a bayou classic sq14 camp stove.

I use this thermometer to measure water and mash temp https://www.morebeer.com/products/brewing-thermometer-2-12.html

Simple aeration tool https://www.morebeer.com/products/siphon-spray-wort-aerator.html

I use a stir plate and a couple 1L borosilicate erlenmeyer flasks to make starters. I have yeast nutrient and DME.

Foam control to prevent boil overs or starter foaming
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermcaps-foam-control-1-oz.html

For temperature control I use an inkbird thermostat
https://www.morebeer.com/products/inkbird-digital-temperature-controller.html
A fermwrap for heating
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermwrap-heater.html
And a second-hand fridge for cooling.
Stick-on thermometers are used for my aging carboys https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermometer-adhesive-thermometer.html

For bottling I got a bottle washer
https://www.morebeer.com/products/blast-carboy-bottle-washer.html
A sanitizer injector
https://www.morebeer.com/products/economy-sanitizer-injector-stationary-bottle-tree.html
And FastRack for drying
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fastrack-beer-bottle-drying-rack-storage-system.html

I have a small scale with 0.01g resolution for small measurements and an UltraShip-55 for measuring grain. I mill my own with a KegCo 3-roller mill (Monster Mill clone).

I have a pH meter, calibration & storage solution.
I have measuring spoons, measuring cups, some test tubes, a test tube holder, a couple graduated cylinders and beakers for various purposes.

Various salts and lactic acid for water chemistry. I buy RO water for most brews and I have water jugs for that.

I use a high resolution hydrometer to track FG on slow sours
https://www.morebeer.com/products/final-gravity-hydrometer.html

My yeast ranch is in 8oz Ball jars.

I got the lid opener for convenience
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermonster-lid-opener.html
I have 7 fermonsters and acquiring more.

Homemade PBW for cleaning. I got a spray bottle for StarSan.

I use freebie Brewer's Friend and Brunwater for recipe creation.


You certainly can bottle directly from the fermenter (you need to add priming sugar to each individual bottle) but I find it easier to batch prime in a bottling vessel.

All bottle-carbonated homebrew has sediment in the bottle, even when it's fully clear at bottling time.


On my 7 gal Fermonster I just use the silicone airlock. YMMV.
On my 6 gal I use a blow-off tube into a bottle of starsan (3/8" tube through a #10 drilled rubber stopper) for the vigorous part of fermentation before switching to the airlock.

Cheers

Thank you so much for all your help! I’m real excited to start this new adventure! That’s a whole lot of stuff going on for your brews. Do I Need all that stuff now, or can I get more stuff as I progress?

And I saw the premium kit but like the deluxe kit better because of the price, especially with the 15% off, will the deluxe “do for now” to learn and I can build my arsenal as I learn and gain experience? And Yeah looking at the premium kit I’m going to Have to go with the deluxe kit, because I will just be using my gas stove to heat and probably my sink to chill my wort.

You said you use 6 gallon fermonsters for your sours right, to let them age, not the 7 gallon?

Also I keep seeing people have entire fridges dedicated to house beer, especially lagers, do I Have to have this? I have a fridge out here that I could put some stuff in but I don’t think I can really keep it up close to 50F. I talked with a local brew store and they said I could do saisons if I can keep the beer cool, and I saw on a thermometer it says Belgian Ales have a pretty wide and high temperature range. I have very poor insulation, and don’t ever stay out here at all, so it’s kind of falling the seasons, winter I can keep it 60-65f but summer it’s staying 75-80f. And yeah I just checked my fridge, I definitely could put a 2-4 fermenters in there, but the temp dial is stuck so I can’t raise it up.

This is really just something for me to experiment with and create some beer I enjoy, I don’t really have the place to do these crazy setups that so many people have. I’m doing this in my farm house which is small and already used for farming tools and nutrients and seedlings, with no garage, so I’m limited on how big I can go; not to mention my very limited money available. Again I Really Appreciate your help!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Do I Need all that stuff now, or can I get more stuff as I progress?

A lot of things are optional. Some stuff is for convenience, just to make brewing & bottling more enjoyable. Some of the stuff is to improve beer quality. It makes sense to start with just the basics and see how you like it.
If you want to do extract or no-sparge BIAB you won't need quite as much stuff.

I tried using my stove to heat ~5 gal of water to boiling. It took a looong time. Maybe yours is better.

I do use 6 gal fermonsters for my sours.

Tight control over fermentation temperature makes a big difference for some yeast strains. Fortunately, sours are generally pretty forgiving. If you have ambient between 65°F and 80°F you can pick a yeast/blend that does well at your temp.
I don't use the fridge for sours since my basement is around 70°F.

This is the minimum needed for extract beer:
Kettle.
Burner (or stove).
Stir paddle.
Thermometer (optional but highly recommended)
Scale (optional but recommended) and measuring cups/spoons.
Transfer tubing.
Hydrometer (optional but highly recommended).
Fermenter with airlock & blow-off.
Bottles.
If the fermenter isn't ported you need a racking cane or auto siphon.
Some kind of bottling bucket/vessel (you can use your kettle).
Bottling wand (optional but highly recommended).
Capper.
Cleaner & sanitizer (both optional but highly recommended).

Besides ingredients you need priming sugar of some kind, and chlorine/chloramine-free water (can use campden tablets to remove chlorine/chloramine)

Cheers

 

[Calder]

Brew a plain base beer. No or low hops, keep the IBUs to below 10.

Very basic would be 7 lbs of gold Extract (it has roughly 10% crystal already in it), so grains are not necessary. Low hops, maybe half an ounce of anything with 15 minutes left in the boil.

Make up to 4 gallons and toss in any of the many Lambic/Souring blend yeasts you might find. You will be making 5 gallons, but since you are limited to 5 gallon containers, limit primary fermentation to 4. Cover and seal with an airlock. Do not make a starter. If you drink any sour beers, toss in the dregs too.

You can buy airlocks and grommets for lids. the grommet can be obtained from hardware store or homebrew store. Usually requires a half inch hole drilled in the lid to take the grommet.

It will be slow to start, but don't worry. For sour beers, longer is better, so don't panic if it doesn't seem to have started in a few days.

After 2 weeks you will need to transfer to a secondary fermenter. Need to be 5 gallons (or 2 x 2.5 gallons). Preferable glass, I believe Better bottles are acceptable. Also thick HPDE is good. Thick HPDE is better than glass as it is less permeable. What you need is a container(s) that will take the beer you just brewed, plus 1 gallon of boiled (and cooled) water, and have very little airspace. Put in an airlock and forget about it for at least a year.

I use a number of HPDE 2.75 gallon containers. I bought bulk LME in them. I have made a silicon seal from some sheet material, drilled a hole for a grommet, and stuck on an airlock.

This is about as basic as it gets. If you think you can seal a 5 gallon bucket, that would work too, but the big problem with them is the seal on the lid is generally not good and lets in a lot of air ...... which is what you want to avoid.

And ..... forget about harvesting local yeast from the air. You might get lucky, but chances are it will produce something awful.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

A lot of things are optional. Some stuff is for convenience, just to make brewing & bottling more enjoyable. Some of the stuff is to improve beer quality. It makes sense to start with just the basics and see how you like it.
If you want to do extract or no-sparge BIAB you won't need quite as much stuff.

I tried using my stove to heat ~5 gal of water to boiling. It took a looong time. Maybe yours is better.

I do use 6 gal fermonsters for my sours.

Tight control over fermentation temperature makes a big difference for some yeast strains. Fortunately, sours are generally pretty forgiving. If you have ambient between 65°F and 80°F you can pick a yeast/blend that does well at your temp.
I don't use the fridge for sours since my basement is around 70°F.

This is the minimum needed for extract beer:
Kettle.
Burner (or stove).
Stir paddle.
Thermometer (optional but highly recommended)
Scale (optional but recommended) and measuring cups/spoons.
Transfer tubing.
Hydrometer (optional but highly recommended).
Fermenter with airlock & blow-off.
Bottles.
If the fermenter isn't ported you need a racking cane or auto siphon.
Some kind of bottling bucket/vessel (you can use your kettle).
Bottling wand (optional but highly recommended).
Capper.
Cleaner & sanitizer (both optional but highly recommended).

Besides ingredients you need priming sugar of some kind, and chlorine/chloramine-free water (can use campden tablets to remove chlorine/chloramine)

Cheers

Awesome thanks so much! Yeah I was going to use water you can buy outside food lion grocery store, it’s called Glazier I think, it’s a water vending machine that you fill your own bottles with and it runs through carbon, UV, RO, and another carbon at the end to purify the water, and it’s way cheaper than even buying the gallons or 5 gallons.

Haha yeah I don’t know if my stove will work as good, I’ll give it a try. I Do have a deep fryer for turkeys that I can hook up with propane outside. Just tough being I don’t really have a garage or drive way.

So let’s say I wanted to Sour a saison, I’d just buy the ingredients, and then buy a Sour Yeast to throw in instead of the regular yeast? I saw some interesting Sour yeasts on morebeer, I can just use these with any blend of ingredients?

Yeah I’m definitely buying the Deluxe kit as soon as I have money next week, that way I can brew some regular beers to get the swing of things and Then buy some more fermonsters and brew some sours, and then that way I still have my original fermonster with the airlock that comes with the kit so I can brew regular beers in the mean time.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Brew a plain base beer. No or low hops, keep the IBUs to below 10.

Very basic would be 7 lbs of gold Extract (it has roughly 10% crystal already in it), so grains are not necessary. Low hops, maybe half an ounce of anything with 15 minutes left in the boil.

Make up to 4 gallons and toss in any of the many Lambic/Souring blend yeasts you might find. You will be making 5 gallons, but since you are limited to 5 gallon containers, limit primary fermentation to 4. Cover and seal with an airlock. Do not make a starter. If you drink any sour beers, toss in the dregs too.

You can buy airlocks and grommets for lids. the grommet can be obtained from hardware store or homebrew store. Usually requires a half inch hole drilled in the lid to take the grommet.

It will be slow to start, but don't worry. For sour beers, longer is better, so don't panic if it doesn't seem to have started in a few days.

After 2 weeks you will need to transfer to a secondary fermenter. Need to be 5 gallons (or 2 x 2.5 gallons). Preferable glass, I believe Better bottles are acceptable. Also thick HPDE is good. Thick HPDE is better than glass as it is less permeable. What you need is a container(s) that will take the beer you just brewed, plus 1 gallon of boiled (and cooled) water, and have very little airspace. Put in an airlock and forget about it for at least a year.

I use a number of HPDE 2.75 gallon containers. I bought bulk LME in them. I have made a silicon seal from some sheet material, drilled a hole for a grommet, and stuck on an airlock.

This is about as basic as it gets. If you think you can seal a 5 gallon bucket, that would work too, but the big problem with them is the seal on the lid is generally not good and lets in a lot of air ...... which is what you want to avoid.

And ..... forget about harvesting local yeast from the air. You might get lucky, but chances are it will produce something awful.

Awesome thanks for your advice. I think from what island lizard mentioned about getting the smell out of the buckets and qphrumph mentioned about extra air I’m going to go with what RPHGuy referenced with the fermonsters. They’re not too expensive for what I’d do and I could do a full 5 gallon batch.

And so you’re saying Just use 7lbs of gold Extract, 1oz of any hops, and a sour yeast, And That’s it? For a first time Sour? What about the bottling, add any sort of sugar?

Haha and yeah I think I’ll pass for now on trying to collect local yeast, my area is so barren and disease ridden I’m sure all I’d collect is bunk.

 

[RPh_Guy]

So let’s say I wanted to Sour a saison, I’d just buy the ingredients, and then buy a Sour Yeast to throw in instead of the regular yeast? I saw some interesting Sour yeasts on morebeer, I can just use these with any blend of ingredients?

I haven't made a saison so I don't have a recipe handy...

You need to make a saison wort and use a saison yeast. Keep it to 5 IBU of early addition hops.
After the saison yeast finishes, add a culture of Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, and Pediococcus (either a commercial culture and/or suitable dregs)
You can add oak and/or hops closer to bottling if you want.

What about the bottling, add any sort of sugar?

Bottle carbonation always requires some kind of fermentable sugar.

 

[TEWNCfarms]

I haven't made a saison so I don't have a recipe handy...

You need to make a saison wort and use a saison yeast. Keep it to 5 IBU of early addition hops.
After the saison yeast finishes, add a culture of Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, and Pediococcus (either a commercial culture and/or suitable dregs)
You can add oak and/or hops closer to bottling if you want.


Bottle carbonation always requires some kind of fermentable sugar.

Ahh okay thanks! So if I had a bottle of sour I really liked that had sediment I would just pour in the sediment into the fermenter? Would I need a few bottles for a 5 gallon batch?

And so I’m Not boiling hops with the sours? If I wanted to use hops? And by oak you’re talking like a toasted oak block?

 

[RPh_Guy]

So if I had a bottle of sour I really liked that had sediment I would just pour in the sediment into the fermenter? Would I need a few bottles for a 5 gallon batch?

It needs to be unpasteurized and unfiltered. One bottle should be fine.

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html?m=1

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html?m=1

Boiling hops add bitterness. How long they are boiled determines the amount of bitterness, flavor, and aroma.
"Dry hopping" is adding hops in the fermenter, for flavor/aroma.

I use these for oak
https://www.morebeer.com/products/french-oak-cubes-stavin-medium-toast-1.html

 

[TEWNCfarms]

It needs to be unpasteurized and unfiltered. One bottle should be fine.

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html?m=1

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html?m=1

Boiling hops add bitterness. How long they are boiled determines the amount of bitterness, flavor, and aroma.
"Dry hopping" is adding hops in the fermenter, for flavor.

I use these for oak
https://www.morebeer.com/products/french-oak-cubes-stavin-medium-toast-1.html

Awesome thanks!

Is there a reason corn sugar is used so much? Everything I keep reading is corn sugar. I’d prefer to use cane sugar, or syrup from another natural local source, I’m not really into the gmo corn.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Is there a reason corn sugar is used so much

Dextrose is cheap, easy/quick to ferment, and widely available in powdered form.

Cane sugar (sucrose) is good too.
Use a priming calculator
https://www.morebeer.com/content/priming_sugar_calculator

 

[TEWNCfarms]

Dextrose is cheap, easy/quick to ferment, and widely available in powdered form.

Cane sugar (sucrose) is good too.
Use a priming calculator
https://www.morebeer.com/content/priming_sugar_calculator

Question on the fermonsters, do these degrade after a couple years? Like does the plastic start to deteriorate and get into the beer? How long have you used some of yours?

 

[RPh_Guy]

PET is widely used among brewers (Better Bottle, Big Mouth Bubbler, FerMonster, etc) and widely used for food packaging, including beverages and liquor.

They should last many years, probably at least 15. I don't worry about it since I've never heard of them degrading.
I haven't been brewing that long.

Cheers