BeerSmith Water Additions

[Kevin Lewis]

In using BeerSmith for water addition calculations for a single infusion mash, should all of the mash additions go into the mash tun at the initial infusion with none going into the mash out water, or do I need to proportionally split the salts into both water additions?

 

[day_trippr]

[where are my manners!]
Welcome @Kevin Lewis to the forums at homebrewtalk.com

You can go either way, I believe. I split the additions between strike and sparge liquors. All it takes is a non-zero Sparge volume setting to enable adding salts to the Sparge, then it will add at the same ratios as the Strike liquor...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd rather use the extra water for sparging (2 batch sparges of equal volume) than for a mashout, for a much better (mash) efficiency (82-85%).

We have very soft water. I usually spread the brewing salts between mash and sparge, with the sparge also being acidified with Phosphoric Acid.

When I do step mashes, cereal mashes, etc. and/or a mashout, I mash in the kettle, performing a mashout at the end, by slow, direct heating while good stirring/scraping the bottom. Then transfer to the converted cooler mash tun for lautering and 2x sparging, with fully draining each time.

Although I use BeerSmith for recipe calculations, I've always been using Bru'n Water (it's free) for water chemistry. I've never compared results from both, I reckon they're close.

 

[day_trippr]

I wonder if the OP is using the term "mashout" in place of "sparge".

The only time I've read of doing a mashout without a sparge is in no-sparge brewing, but in that case there's no addition, just a heated rise to 170°F to achieve enzyme denaturization...

Cheers!

 

[Kevin Lewis]

I wonder if the OP is using the term "mashout" in place of "sparge".

The only time I've read of doing a mashout without a sparge is in no-sparge brewing, but in that case there's no addition, just a heated rise to 170°F to achieve enzyme denaturization...

Cheers!

I do a single infusion mash in a cooler, so the mashout requires an additional infusion of water to reach 168F. Fly sparge after that.

To further clarify, the mash calculations for a 9 gallon batch are:
- 24.29 qt mash in
-11.81 qt mash out

So, my question is: BeerSmith provides calculations for salts to reach a target water profile, but it splits them into “mash” and “sparge” additions; yet, it makes no indication on salts for mash in and mash out water additions. Do I run the risk of an imbalanced and potentially detrimental water chemistry if all of the “mash” salts go in at the mash in, or do they need to be proportionally distributed to these two additions (or, as one commenter posted, if I skip the mash out entirely)?

 

[VikeMan]

The only time I've read of doing a mashout without a sparge is in no-sparge brewing, but in that case there's no addition, just a heated rise to 170°F to achieve enzyme denaturization...

Most of my batches are no-sparge, with a mashout, where the mashout is an addition. The temp of the mashout addition is calculated to raise the temp to 168. This happens in a cooler mash tun. No-sparge existed before Brew-In-A-Bag/Brew-In-A-Basket/All-In-Ones.

 

[VikeMan]

So, my question is: BeerSmith provides calculations for salts to reach a target water profile, but it splits them into “mash” and “sparge” additions; yet, it makes no indication on salts for mash in and mash out water additions. Do I run the risk of an imbalanced and potentially detrimental water chemistry if all of the “mash” salts go in at the mash in, or do they need to be proportionally distributed to these two additions (or, as one commenter posted, if I skip the mash out entirely)?

You can split the salts however you want, but keep in mind that your mash pH will be different depending on how you split them. I would assume that BeerSmith's pH prediction section let's you tell it what's going into the mash vs what's going in later. (But I don't use BeerSmith.)

 

[day_trippr]

Most of my batches are no-sparge, with a mashout, where the mashout is an addition. The temp of the mashout addition is calculated to raise the temp to 168. This happens in a cooler mash tun.

Thanks. First time I've read of that, but given the cooler it totally makes sense if a mashout is desired. The couple of years I used a cooler MLT I did batch sparges which enabled a "built-in" mashout.

I do a single infusion mash in a cooler, so the mashout requires an additional infusion of water to reach 168F. Fly sparge after that.

And that In that case you want to make sure the end-of-runnings pH stays below ~5.6. Not sure but you might need to acidify your fly sparge liquor whether you add all the salts to the strike liquor or not...

Cheers!

 

[broot]

When I use beersmith it gives me mash and sparge additions separately. I measure out all the water, add all my additions, then use what I need for the mash and the rest for the sparge. Just makes it easier for me.

 

[McMullan]

I add it all to the mash. It simplifies things and works. Adding a tsp CaCl2 or CaSO4 to the boil regardless isn’t a bad idea.

Edit: I have no need to treat my tap water for sparging.

 

[IslandLizard]

I do a single infusion mash in a cooler, so the mashout requires an additional infusion of water to reach 168F. Fly sparge after that.

To further clarify, the mash calculations for a 9 gallon batch are:
- 24.29 qt mash in
-11.81 qt mash out

That's a lot of water needed to simply bring the mash to mashout temps. There doesn't seem to be much water left for the actual (fly) sparge. Doesn't that tank your mash efficiency?

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Rightly or wrongly, I just salt all my water for a given beer the same, depending on tht ions I'm looking for. Then further I acidify the sparge liquor to ensure it's not above 5.7.

 

[IslandLizard]

Then further I acidify the sparge liquor to ensure it's not above 5.7.

Ya mean the runoff isn't above pH 5.7.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I use BS3 and it does split between the mash and sparge water calculations. I use RO on all my beers, as the water system I'm on is horrible and smells like a swimming pool. I still use a 3v system and fly sparge (I know, I'm old). I frequently only do the mash additions and don't put anything in the sparge. When I do additions to the sparge, I usually start the sparge, then add the salts directly to the mash. My HLT has a 2-3 gallon dead space below my site glass. Otherwise, I always assumed I would have to proportionally increase the sparge additions for this extra 2-3 gallons.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Ya mean the runoff isn't above pH 5.7.

Lol, yes, sorry.

 

[Brooothru]

There's a simpler way to balance the salts. I start with a strike water volume in my AIO that equals my desired pre-boil volume, plus estimated absorption losses to the grist. Then I add my calculated salt and acid additions from Bru'n Water and heat to mash-in temperature. Just prior to dough-in I draw off between 3~4 gallons as reserve, add the grain, then add back sufficient reserve strike water to cover the grain and give me the right water:grain ratio. After :15 minutes into the mash I correct for proper target pH and adjust if needed with lactic acid.

I heat the remainder of the reserved strike water to use as a sparge, then begin the boil. Near the end of boil I'll cool a sample of the wort to check the pH and adjust as necessary to hit pH 4.8~5.2. I'll add that I seldom have to make corrections for acidity other than what I preplanned from Bru'n Water calculations. But the best part is not having to suss out two separate salt additions. Calculate once, measure once, mix once. The strike water and sparge are identical, and any pH corrections (rarely) are minor and done on the fly.