beer water filtration

[brewmaster101]

Considering buying the water filtration system from Midwest brewing instead of buying 8 gallons/70 lbs of spring water and lugging it home from the store.

Cost is $40 and filters chlorine.

Anyone have a better idea or use something as good?

 

[Yooper]

It depends on your tap water, honestly. Chlorine is easy to get rid of without filtering (let it sit out overnight), but other things are not easy to get rid of, even with filtering.

Have your had your tap water tested, or does it not taste good?

 

[brewmaster101]

Yes. I have the water report. Water tastes fine with exception of the ph which is 8-9.
I use to let water sit out for the fish tank, but I don't feel comfortable letting something I am going to drink set out.
I feel better filtering and removing chlorine and chloramine, which does not boil off. And filtering any particulates as well.
I brewed a batch not filtered and it had an off taste I blame on the water.
My buddy filters and his beer tastes better.

 

[Yooper]

Yes. I have the water report. Water tastes fine with exception of the ph which is 8-9.
I use to let water sit out for the fish tank, but I don't feel comfortable letting something I am going to drink set out.
I feel better filtering and removing chlorine and chloramine, which does not boil off. And filtering any particulates as well.
I brewed a batch not filtered and it had an off taste I blame on the water.
My buddy filters and his beer tastes better.

If you post your water report, we can see if filtering with that set up would help, or if you need something else. If you have chloramine, you'd probably need to treat with campden as most filters don't filter out chloramine.

Why is it not ok to let your water sit out overnight, if you're boiling the next day with it?

 

[Runyanka]

If you post your water report, we can see if filtering with that set up would help, or if you need something else. If you have chloramine, you'd probably need to treat with campden as most filters don't filter out chloramine.

Why is it not ok to let your water sit out overnight, if you're boiling the next day with it?

Plus it sits in storage and pipes longer than that. I would rather have it sit in my clean kettles than old copper pipes, hot water heater, etc.

 

[brewmaster101]

Ok. My understanding of chemistry is chlorine will evaporate and it will boil off. Still not a good IDEA to use it in your mash. Chloramine, and my water which is disinfected with chlorimination, does not evaporate or boil off.
Next, no matter how good your water is you should filter to get a cleaner safer beer. Water is always going to pick up particulates, calcium, metals, etc.
Boiling doesn't get rid of bits and pieces, filtering does.
Anhueser-busch doesn't pull muddy water out of the Mississippi and throw yeast into it. They filter and treat. Microbrews filter thier city water and dechlorinate.
Water is the main ingredient, I want to improve my main ingredient.
I am looking for a filter.

 

[Yooper]

I am looking for a filter.

Then get a filter!

But filtering doesn't remove chloramine. That is what I was trying to say. You need to get the appropriate filter. If you've got solids and crud in your water, and it tastes bad, you absolutely should filter.

I have great tasting water, with no chloramine, but it's very high in alkalinity so I purchased a small RO system. It filters, too. You may need more than a simple filter setup depending on what you're starting with. That was my point.

 

[Aschecte]

Ok. My understanding of chemistry is chlorine will evaporate and it will boil off. Still not a good IDEA to use it in your mash. Chloramine, and my water which is disinfected with chlorimination, does not evaporate or boil off.
Next, no matter how good your water is you should filter to get a cleaner safer beer. Water is always going to pick up particulates, calcium, metals, etc.
Boiling doesn't get rid of bits and pieces, filtering does.
Anhueser-busch doesn't pull muddy water out of the Mississippi and throw yeast into it. They filter and treat. Microbrews filter thier city water and dechlorinate.
Water is the main ingredient, I want to improve my main ingredient.
I am looking for a filter.

I completely understand what you are saying but there are a few key points to note. chlorine will produce I believe chlorophenols but, as Yooper stated chlorine will dissapate overnight. Do not be worried about letting it sit I work in the hvac world and trust me your city water sit much longer than that before it gets to you. secondly why shouldn't you use it in your mash ? now if you are concerned about filtering visible particiles or if your concern is ionic or disolved iron than yes you should filter conversly your beer need minerals some heavy metals etc for proper yeast nutrition Hell so do you for your body to function properly ( look at a bottle of vitamins ). Next if your concerned about chloramines only campden will truely remove it or distillation which will basically make distilled water which you do not want to use for your brewing as your beer would not taste good. Lastly if you want to know why AH or other macro breweries filter it's because of health laws not because the water is unsafe, also they filter because they know people want clear beer and don't want to be known as the murky beeer company and lastly they filter there beer for large particulates first and finer after the beer is done fermenting to remove yeast and trub. I know this because I used to work for a brewery in the north east. Trust me if you have good drinking water ( like you make pasta in it or drink coffe with it etc. ) just use campden to treat the chlorine / chloramines 1 tablet per 20 gallons or if your water is realllly bad ( stuff floating in your water or red water bacteria ) use the $40 filter but you will still need campden to remove the chloramines. Good brewing and good luck !!!prost !

 

[brewmaster101]

Ok.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

Actually there are filters that will remove chloramine, but they are more expensive than chlorine filters.

Here is a great website for water filters. Its very popular in the fishkeeping hobby.
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/chloramine_filters.htm

 

[Aschecte]

Actually there are filters that will remove chloramine, but they are more expensive than chlorine filters.

Here is a great website for water filters. Its very popular in the fishkeeping hobby.
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/chloramine_filters.htm

absolutely there are filters for almost everything but like you said at a high(er) price point. All we are saying is that campden is a CHEAP method of removing chlorine/chloramine at about $.08 cents per 20 gallons of treatment. I'm sorry if I'm coming off pushy what it really comes down to is how comfortable you are with thr method of removal.... if filters are your comfort level then God bless there is nothing wrong with using a filter but the same outcome can be reached at a lower impact to your wallet.Also check these quotes they are from wikipedia I think it will explain why a filter is NOT a good option for chloramine removal and why campden is.

Activated carbon

Activated carbon have been used for chloramine removal long before catalytic carbon became available; Standard activated carbon requires a very long contact time, which means a large volume of carbon is needed. For thorough removal, up to four times the contact time of catalytic carbon may be required.


Campden tablets

Home brewers use reducing agents such as sodium metabisulfite or potassium metabisulfite (both proprietary sold as campden tablets) to remove chloramine from brewing fermented beverages. However, residual sodium can cause off flavors in beer[16] so potassium metabisulfite is preferred.

I also found this very interesting and maybe a option for you.

Ascorbic acid

Ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate completely neutralizes both chlorine and chloramines but degrades in a day or two which only make it usable for short-term applications; SFPUC determined that 1000 mg of Vitamin C (tablets purchased in a grocery store, crushed and mixed in with the bath water) remove chloramine completely in a medium size bathtub without significantly depressing pH.[11][12

 

[boscobeans]

Found this online: re. Brita filters and chloramines:

Dear Mr X

Thank you for your email dated 3rd March 2010.

I am pleased to report that BRITA filters are able to remove chloramine from your tap water.

BRITA filter cartridges contain a combination of ion exchange resin and activated carbon, which is particularly suitable for this type of drinking water treatment. The benefits of BRITA household water filters are:
· Reduction of limescale
· Reduction of heavy metals, such as lead and copper caused by the household installations
· Reduction of chlorine, chloramine and other organic compounds
BRITA filters not only optimise the taste and odour of tap water for the preparation of food and hot and cold beverages, but also prevent scale build up in domestic appliances.
Chloramine in drinking water
Chloramine is a disinfectant similar to chlorine that has been used by the water industry around the world for more than 50 years, although, until recently its use in UK has been limited. It is effective at controlling bacteria in water and as it does not evaporate easily, chloramine treated tap water is protected from bacterial growth in the distribution system and does not deteriorate during storage.

Chloramine is used in tap water in concentrations of 1-3 mg/l. Its presence can affect taste and odour and is usually noticeable at levels above 0.7mg/l. Unlike chlorine, chloramine does not readily evaporate from tap water. This means that the taste and odour cannot be significantly improved simply by leaving to stand before use.
Chloramine removal by BRITA Filter
The activated carbon in the BRITA filters removes chloramine from tap water by a process known as adsorption
A Brita cartridge will significantly reduce chloramines levels thereby minimising unpleasant taste and odours.

Filter performance tests
Strict internal and external quality controls of the raw materials and end products are carried out before, during and after the production of the filter systems and cartridges in order to satisfy the high quality demands set by BRITA. Along with the standardised test reports, the reduction performance is also checked regularly in the company’s laboratories.

BRITA UK
Corporate Affairs Department


FWIW

bosco

 

[BeardedIdiot]

No problem Aschecte. I actually use the Campden tablets myself, as my water is treated with Chloramines. But the OP originally asked about a chloramine filter, and I was just making sure he was aware that they were available, if slightly more expensive than regular Chlorine filters.

He may prefer to buy and use a filter vs. using tablets. Just wanted him to know it was an option .

 

[Aschecte]

If you read the Brita article it says it REDUCES chloramine not eliminates it. On that note I am moving on from this thread as I feel like I'm beating a dead horse and I don't want anyone to think I'm a jerk : )

 

[brewmaster101]

Thank you. Good website with information.

 

[brewmaster101]

Campden makes me nervous. I understand its use but, that adding another chemical to get rid of a chemical is anti productive.
Campden also has a tendency to make beer salty tasting imho.
No answer is cheap, I would rather spend money to filter the tap, which is already good, to make it better.

 

[JuanMoore]

Campden makes me nervous. I understand its use but, that adding another chemical to get rid of a chemical is anti productive.
Campden also has a tendency to make beer salty tasting imho.
No answer is cheap, I would rather spend money to filter the tap, which is already good, to make it better.

Maybe if you understood the chemistry a little better it wouldn't make you nervous. Adding a tiny amount of something that will react with a harmful product to produce a slight increase in the ions your brewing water needs to have isn't anti-productive, or anything to be nervous about. The only product from the reaction that isn't one of the ions needed for brewing water is SO2 gas, which will evaporate quickly. If you've had beer treated with campden that tasted salty, then the brewer had to have used sodium based campden tablets, and waaaaaaay too much. The proper dose for chloramine removal is only 1/4 tablet per 5 gal of water. The dosages that are used in wine making are ~20X higher, and most vintners usually prefer potassium based campden tablets to reduce the chances of salty tasting wine. If you're worried about salty beer (which shouldn't be a worry even at 4X the proper dosage) then simply use potassium metabisulfite campden tablets instead of sodium metabisulfite.

If your water is treated with chloramine, then you really need to either remove it all, or reduce it to minuscule amounts. It's easy to filter out enough to remove any taste in the water, but any left behind will form chlorophenols once they react with your beer, which have an extremely low taste threshold (as low as 0.2ppm). To do this with a filter will mean using more expensive filter cartridges, and excruciatingly slow flow rates. Using a standard 10" whole house filter housing and a quality carbon filter to significantly reduce chlorine requires a flow rate under 1gpm. Since it takes at least 4X longer contact time to remove chloramine, you'll need to slow the flow down to less than 1/4 gpm. To get virtually all of the chloramine out will require even slower flow rates.

FWIW I had issues with chlorophenols when I first started brewing. Now I filter my brewing water with a cheap carbon filter at ~1gpm, and then treat with potassium based campden tablets at a rate of 1 tablet / 20 gal. I then either use as is, or dilute with purchased RO water, or add brewing salts (depending on the style/SRM of the beer I'm brewing).

 

[Huff360]

brewmaster - if you would follow Yooper's advice and post the water report, we could help you in picking a filter.

Until you do that, there is no way that we can do anything other than give you answers to a question you are not asking (like telling you to use campden)

 

[jma99]

One quick thing about using RO water.

RO water is essentially the same as distilled water.
If you use RO water you may want to consider adding back some of the "stuff" that makes water taste good.

The best part about using RO water is that you can "build" water from any region in the world!

Me? I use a whole house active carbon filter for my mash and sparge water and my beer comes out great! My tap water is not filtered, and it tastes good, just like Lake Superior water should! And cold.......

 

[vinper]

I just found,pretty cheap . The replacement filters for mine cost almost as much http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/reverse-osmosis-systems.asp