Beer Release and Tasting: How much is too much?

[Renoun]

Here's a blog post at Beervana Buzz describing somebody's homebrew speakeasy shutting down after getting busted following publicity in the local alt-weekly. I'd hardly consider Portland, OR as being a locality where the authorities are out to get home brewers but actions have consequences and in this case the state liquor authority made it clear that it was time to shut down. At least the brewer isn't currently facing charges or dealing with less sympathetic federal authorities.

 

[Ayuir]

Just opened our 15 bbl brewery today...Our total cost was @$410k. We did every ounce of work ourselves. Contractors would have more than doubled that cost.

And yes, everything the OP is doing is illegal. There's really no way around it either, even through merchandise, etc. Probably never get busted though. Just don't advertise and be careful.

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Congratulations! and best of luck.

 

[Danno355]

Just opened our 15 bbl brewery today...Our total cost was @$410k. We did every ounce of work ourselves. Contractors would have more than doubled that cost.

And yes, everything the OP is doing is illegal. There's really no way around it either, even through merchandise, etc. Probably never get busted though. Just don't advertise and be careful.

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Awesome! $410k is amazing. I've been working on my financials for a couple of weeks. Hope be funded and opening first 1/2 of 2015. Best of luck to you!

 

[Teromous]

Awesome! $410k is amazing. I've been working on my financials for a couple of weeks. Hope be funded and opening first 1/2 of 2015. Best of luck to you!

Where are you planning to open up?

 

[Danno355]

Where are you planning to open up?

Southeastern VA. Still keeping the actual city close hold for a few more months while we finalize our equipment, build-out, permits and zero in on an opening month. It's a terrifying rush lol

 

[Hello]

Just opened our 15 bbl brewery today...Our total cost was @$410k. We did every ounce of work ourselves. Contractors would have more than doubled that cost.

And yes, everything the OP is doing is illegal. There's really no way around it either, even through merchandise, etc. Probably never get busted though. Just don't advertise and be careful.

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Well he seems to advertise enough. It will only take one misstep though. It is a shame because I don't think the law against selling homebrew is put there to protect people as much as it is there to control the tax on alcohol.

 

[tagz]

He's definitely advertising through Facebook and twitter. And, based on the increasing popularity of his release parties, it's just a matter of time before someone in authority finds out.

 

[Phunhog]

He's definitely advertising through Facebook and twitter. And, based on the increasing popularity of his release parties, it's just a matter of time before someone in authority finds out.

He shouldn't be doing or at least he shouldn't be advertising that he is doing it. However if/when the authorites do find out I seriously doubt anything will happen. Something like this is such a low priority. I was reading about homebrewing before it became legal. Guys like Papazian were openly homebrewing. In the book it talks about how they almost hoped that got busted because it would show how absolutely ridiculous some of the homebrewing laws were/are. Then they could get some media coverage and support for a law change. Something like that recently happened in CA. Homebrewers/homewinemakers had been hosting a charity festival for something like 30 years.......all the time it being illegal. Well someone at the ABC decided to press the issue and shut them down. The homebrewers went to their local politicians and got the law changed. I doubt it ever would have happened without the "bust".

 

[ktblunden]

Here's a blog post at Beervana Buzz describing somebody's homebrew speakeasy shutting down after getting busted following publicity in the local alt-weekly. I'd hardly consider Portland, OR as being a locality where the authorities are out to get home brewers but actions have consequences and in this case the state liquor authority made it clear that it was time to shut down. At least the brewer isn't currently facing charges or dealing with less sympathetic federal authorities.

I wondered how long that would take after all the publicity it got.

 

[Teromous]

Southeastern VA. Still keeping the actual city close hold for a few more months while we finalize our equipment, build-out, permits and zero in on an opening month. It's a terrifying rush lol

Pungo?

It would be cool to have some more breweries in the Hampton Roads area.

 

[jbaysurfer]

He shouldn't be doing or at least he shouldn't be advertising that he is doing it. However if/when the authorites do find out I seriously doubt anything will happen. Something like this is such a low priority. I was reading about homebrewing before it became legal. Guys like Papazian were openly homebrewing. In the book it talks about how they almost hoped that got busted because it would show how absolutely ridiculous some of the homebrewing laws were/are. Then they could get some media coverage and support for a law change. Something like that recently happened in CA. Homebrewers/homewinemakers had been hosting a charity festival for something like 30 years.......all the time it being illegal. Well someone at the ABC decided to press the issue and shut them down. The homebrewers went to their local politicians and got the law changed. I doubt it ever would have happened without the "bust".

Almost. It was legal up until a new well intentioned law passed. The well intentioned law stated that Charities could SELL homebrew for fundraising purposes. In an effort to prevent just anyone from getting around lisencing laws by founding a "beer" charity, they excluded all 501c3 organizations that existed solely for this purpose. The AHA/CHA fell under this clause and thus the cancellation of the SoCal Homebrew festival this year. It does appear that the legislators have realized this was an unintended consequence and are seeking to address it with a new bill.

 

[bukwas_brew]

I think we're definitely going to have to find a new way to make $$ on our brew. It's getting too big to not charge for the beer in any form (cups, beer, merch.) So I suppose its just gonna have to be given away at this point? Sucks being poor enough to not be able to start a nano but good enough to do it. So before everyone stamps it illegal again, does anyone have suggestions as to how this could be done without starting a nano and without selling beer and such?

 

[Phunhog]

I think we're definitely going to have to find a new way to make $$ on our brew. It's getting too big to not charge for the beer in any form (cups, beer, merch.) So I suppose its just gonna have to be given away at this point? Sucks being poor enough to not be able to start a nano but good enough to do it. So before everyone stamps it illegal again, does anyone have suggestions as to how this could be done without starting a nano and without selling beer and such?

There is no way to get around the money issue....you can NOT sell your beer. But like I said you CAN sell brewery merch as long as it is not a "this for that" transaction. The beer is free.....however we would really appreciate it if you like our beer to buy a t-shirt/hat. If they do great, if not......the beer is still free.
The other thing I have done and it will depend on your state law is donate your beer to a non-profit fundraiser. Of course you won't make any direct money but should be able to get an tax write off for your ingredients. You also usually get to go to the fundraiser (party) for free. My wife and I got a nice dinner out of it last time.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I think we're definitely going to have to find a new way to make $$ on our brew. It's getting too big to not charge for the beer in any form (cups, beer, merch.) So I suppose its just gonna have to be given away at this point? Sucks being poor enough to not be able to start a nano but good enough to do it. So before everyone stamps it illegal again, does anyone have suggestions as to how this could be done without starting a nano and without selling beer and such?

So before anyone calls it "illegal" again, can we tell you how to do it some way other then the "legal" way? No.

You want to sell shirts, sell em. That's a different business. There is quite frankly NO LEGAL WAY to make a living as a brewery owner without getting a license.

Get a license and stop asking strangers on the internet how to circumvent laws. You are not unique. Many brewers think they are good enough to open a brewery, but you know what, your attitude shows your'e not.

Good enough to open a brewery means good enough to find funding. It means good enough to navigate the rules of multiple governmental entities. It means good enough to manage your time and your resources to make it all happen. It means being good enough to do it all LEGALLY.

Sorry, I've read enough. I kept my mouth shut early on, but there are a lot of people in this country risking their families' financial security and working 80-100 hours a week trying to open breweries legally, and your whole attitude is a slap in the face to their efforts.

 

[downtown3641]

Get a license and stop asking strangers on the internet how to circumvent laws. You are not unique. Many brewers think they are good enough to open a brewery, but you know what, your attitude shows your'e not.

Good enough to open a brewery means good enough to find funding. It means good enough to navigate the rules of multiple governmental entities. It means good enough to manage your time and your resources to make it all happen. It means being good enough to do it all LEGALLY.

Sorry, I've read enough. I kept my mouth shut early on, but there are a lot of people in this country risking their families' financial security and working 80-100 hours a week trying to open breweries legally, and your whole attitude is a slap in the face to their efforts.

This. Stop trying to make a buck by taking shortcuts. If your events are "too big," it's time to stick to serving beer to only your friends.

 

[ong]

In Oregon, it's now legal to trade homebrew, brewing equipment, or ingredients for homebrewed beer or wine. You can accept a sack of Maris Otter for a keg of homebrew. You can't accept cash for beer, however.


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[Paul_Aris]

In Oregon, it's now legal to trade homebrew, brewing equipment, or ingredients for homebrewed beer or wine. You can accept a sack of Maris Otter for a keg of homebrew. You can't accept cash for beer, however.


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I think we're definitely going to have to find a new way to make $$ on our brew. It's getting too big to not charge for the beer in any form (cups, beer, merch.) So I suppose its just gonna have to be given away at this point? Sucks being poor enough to not be able to start a nano but good enough to do it. So before everyone stamps it illegal again, does anyone have suggestions as to how this could be done without starting a nano and without selling beer and such?

I guess the question is why are you giving away beer if you can not afford to? Is for a pat on the back? If so it seems like you could join a local club or bigger club and just trade with members. So you give a away you get beer in return and also get your feedback that way. There is really no reason to sell beer illegally. There is other ways to get feedback such as entering competitions. Then you are only giving away a few bottles of your favorite styles. Just a thought.

 

[ong]

Heh, that second quote wasn't me, btw.


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[Punity]

So before anyone calls it "illegal" again, can we tell you how to do it some way other then the "legal" way? No.

You want to sell shirts, sell em. That's a different business. There is quite frankly NO LEGAL WAY to make a living as a brewery owner without getting a license.

Get a license and stop asking strangers on the internet how to circumvent laws. You are not unique. Many brewers think they are good enough to open a brewery, but you know what, your attitude shows your'e not.

Good enough to open a brewery means good enough to find funding. It means good enough to navigate the rules of multiple governmental entities. It means good enough to manage your time and your resources to make it all happen. It means being good enough to do it all LEGALLY.

Sorry, I've read enough. I kept my mouth shut early on, but there are a lot of people in this country risking their families' financial security and working 80-100 hours a week trying to open breweries legally, and your whole attitude is a slap in the face to their efforts.

+1 working two jobs and trying to build a brand and brew and expand and maintain a relationship with the wifey it takes a toll......what you are doing is wrong either grow a pair and do it or stick to making a keg for you and buds to enjoy.

 

[Hello]

Heh, that second quote wasn't me, btw.


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The mobile app likes to credit random folks when quoting. It's nutty.

OP, I came here to say what a few just did. You continue to think there is a way to play cute with the law. People even discuss selling merch and such then you ask again. That's where it gets silly. You have literally all of the answers you need. If your parties are too big limit them. Do not sell your beer and do not require merch purchases for beer. Good luck.

 

[tagz]

Would a social club work? He could form a form club, charge dues, and have members only parties with free beer.

 

[Hello]

^ he was told to start or join a homebrew club. There is still this push to get someone online to give him a way to get around the law basically. Or as he tells it, a push to get someone to tell him how to allow people to gather around in masses so they can try his great beer but do it in a way that will allow him to fund future brews.

 

[Clonefan94]

He shouldn't be doing or at least he shouldn't be advertising that he is doing it. However if/when the authorites do find out I seriously doubt anything will happen. Something like this is such a low priority. I was reading about homebrewing before it became legal. Guys like Papazian were openly homebrewing. In the book it talks about how they almost hoped that got busted because it would show how absolutely ridiculous some of the homebrewing laws were/are. Then they could get some media coverage and support for a law change. Something like that recently happened in CA. Homebrewers/homewinemakers had been hosting a charity festival for something like 30 years.......all the time it being illegal. Well someone at the ABC decided to press the issue and shut them down. The homebrewers went to their local politicians and got the law changed. I doubt it ever would have happened without the "bust".

I'm probably a bit of a Goody-two-shoes, but I really don't equate brewing beer in your home, drinking and sharing a little with friends, even though the law didn't allow it, with Brewing your own beer at home and then selling it.

I think the hoops you have to jump through are a little over bearing, but I don't like the idea that someone spends all the time and money it takes to open their brewery legally, only to find out that they aren't enforcing the laws against those who are selling homebrew out of their garage. There is a lot of blood, sweat and tears that go into opening a brewery. To get away with that on the cheap, seems to be as much of a crime as stealing to me.

I'm also an avid morel mushroom hunter. For years I was a member of a local mycological club who was working to get a lot of the local laws changed to open up more public land for mushroom gathering. Then you find out that guys are our gathering hundreds of pounds on these lands to only turn around and sell them for profit. It just kind of a slap to the face of the work that was done to open up the "hobby" to those who might enjoy it for themselves.

I know I'm a goody, and probably come across as an ******* pushing the govt. agenda, but I don't mean it that way. It just really seems like selling homebrew goes against why the hobby was originally legalized and opened up to the hobbyists. If you brew so much that you need to recoup your costs, then just don't brew that much. If you want to turn it into a profession, then do it the right way.

 

[Danno355]

I believe most everyone has said it clear enough to you. And everyone was trying to do it civily. It seems we need to be much more direct.

Stop messing with our hobby. Stop trying to skip around the laws the 99% of us abide by. Stop calling them keg release parties your not a professional brewery. Stop using FB to promote your illegal brewery. If you want to have keggers then go buy them legally, support your local brewery and have everyone chip in. Go read the Federal and your Maryland laws regarding homebrewing. Abide by them. Join or create a club and become a responsible homebrewer. But for the love of (whatever you want).... Stop messing with our hobby!

 

[bukwas_brew]

Well, to all, I apologize for selling my beer at my home "keg releases" (although I don't know why the term keg release applies only to "professional brewers since, to my knowledge, the phrase isn't copyrighted). You all have made it clear, it's basically impossible to make ANY profit off homebrew unless you go balls out, which also, unfortunately, means empty wallets. So, please accept my apology since it seems like most of you would rather get pissed than present helpful info to brewers like me. It's my hobby just like it's all of yours, so please don't consider it any different now that we know the legality of the issue.

To those who actually provided us with some helpful pages and let us know politely that we cannot do what we said legally, thanks a million. We're not trying to skip around laws, we just didn't know them. We would like to do this on a bigger scale someday just like anyone else. We love beer and that's why we're all here. So, sorry for unknowingly committing an egregious error. We just care that we can make awesome beers and let people try them.

Thanks again for all the help....and all the negative comments (we'll just call it constructive criticism)

 

[Clonefan94]

Well, to all, I apologize for selling my beer at my home "keg releases" (although I don't know why the term keg release applies only to "professional brewers since, to my knowledge, the phrase isn't copyrighted). You all have made it clear, it's basically impossible to make ANY profit off homebrew unless you go balls out, which also, unfortunately, means empty wallets. So, please accept my apology since it seems like most of you would rather get pissed than present helpful info to brewers like me. It's my hobby just like it's all of yours, so please don't consider it any different now that we know the legality of the issue.

To those who actually provided us with some helpful pages and let us know politely that we cannot do what we said legally, thanks a million. We're not trying to skip around laws, we just didn't know them. We would like to do this on a bigger scale someday just like anyone else. We love beer and that's why we're all here. So, sorry for unknowingly committing an egregious error. We just care that we can make awesome beers and let people try them.

Thanks again for all the help....and all the negative comments (we'll just call it constructive criticism)

I'm probably one of these people you are talking about on the negative side. My response is to the fact that I love this hobby. I brew beer for myself and anyone who comes over. I don't really worry about cost as the hobby of brewing is what keeps me going. I'm not trying to be an ass, I just want to make sure that i can keep brewing for myself. The more I hear of people selling homebrew, the more I worry that one day, they will just decide it's all illegal without some kind of license. It's more self preservation than anything.

I do understand where you are coming from. But you do have to know the work that commercial brewers go through to get their business started. You probably would never have an issue unless some local brewery though you were pulling business away from them and someone decided to turn you in. My only suggestion, if you really do have that many people willing to buy your beer, it might be worth going pro.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Well, to all, I apologize for selling my beer at my home "keg releases" (although I don't know why the term keg release applies only to "professional brewers since, to my knowledge, the phrase isn't copyrighted). You all have made it clear, it's basically impossible to make ANY profit off homebrew unless you go balls out, which also, unfortunately, means empty wallets. So, please accept my apology since it seems like most of you would rather get pissed than present helpful info to brewers like me. It's my hobby just like it's all of yours, so please don't consider it any different now that we know the legality of the issue.

To those who actually provided us with some helpful pages and let us know politely that we cannot do what we said legally, thanks a million. We're not trying to skip around laws, we just didn't know them. We would like to do this on a bigger scale someday just like anyone else. We love beer and that's why we're all here. So, sorry for unknowingly committing an egregious error. We just care that we can make awesome beers and let people try them.

Thanks again for all the help....and all the negative comments (we'll just call it constructive criticism)

Your last line is and blatantly backhanded. The problem isn't the responses you got, it's the question you asked, and the motivation behind it.

It puts the other 1.2 Million of us at risk. Ya think the comments are negative? Be the trigger for the federal gov't outlawing homebrewing altogether. Not even Bill Buckner will trade places with ya then.

 

[broadbill]

Your last line is and blatantly backhanded. The problem isn't the responses you got, it's the question you asked, and the motivation behind it.

It puts the other 1.2 Million of us at risk. Ya think the comments are negative? Be the trigger for the federal gov't outlawing homebrewing altogether. Not even Bill Buckner will trade places with ya then.

Since you don't seem to content to accept whatever mea culpa bukwas_brew offered up, I feel the need to tell you that I think your notion that HIS actions will put ALL of us at risk to be patently absurd. If this were true the first DWI that killed somebody would have put us back in prohibition. That is not the case.

So, get off your high horse and move along.

 

[Yooper]

That's enough.

I don't know what led people to think that insults and sarcasm is allowed in this forum, but it must end right now.