Beer may be good for your health!

[Miraculix]

I don't think this is a complete picture though because I have drank pretty hard through my 20s and I can remember every job I've ever done. My company has a fair amount of alchies and some that practice sobriety and if anything the hard drinkers are the ones that remember the most and have collected more information. I know this is wildly anecdotal but I also think that we put way too much stock in the scientific process because by nature it usually happens in a lab. Labs are not real world environments and the fact that the experiment is being observed skews the results.

This processing is not about making it available as a memory. It is more about hardwiring the brain in a new way so that consequences of what one might have learned during the day are reflected in future actions. All on a subconscious level. But this is definitely not the whole picture, in this way you are correct, we don't understand much about the brain.

 

[McMullan]

Many things are beyond rigorous scientific method, including clinical research and nutrition. There are far too many confounding variables and it would be unethical in most cases to attempt to control them. What we have learned over the last couple decades is how big a role individuality plays and how much it scuppers most clinical studies. I'd say read any research publication with caution and express some healthy skepticism. They barely scratched the surface! We indulge because we're hard-wired to indulge. It's just who we are, as individuals and as a species. In terms of ethanol, even our distant primate cousins (therefore our common ancestor) prize sources of ethanol in nature, like fermenting fruit, which can contain pretty respectable ethanol levels. Obviously, too much of anything is bad for us. Our main problems were inevitable, once civilisation founded itself on promoting its own 'commercial' sources of ethanol 10 000 years ago. It was just as much an ethanol revolution as an agricultural revolution. How much we indulge ourselves and the potential health implications - beneficial or detrimental - are determined by who we are as individuals. Like most things in life, it's more complicated than biased Professor Fundraiser claims.

 

[jambop]

The findings that beer can be good for your health has been known for hundreds of years. Nice student paper but it says nothing new.

I like your avatar " Father Wm Younger" Edinburgh brewer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger's_Brewery

 

[Beermeister32]

I find that I sleep like a baby after several pints. I recommend you broaden your experimental design and aim to capture a complete normal distribution in your data.

Agreed, never had an issue falling asleep and staying asleep. REM sleep is over by the 2:00 am pee…! Now 2:00 am to 6:00 am is a different story..

 

[bracconiere]

Agreed, never had an issue falling asleep and staying asleep. REM sleep is over by the 2:00 am pee…! Now 2:00 am to 6:00 am is a different story..

weird, i don't start dreaming until after the pee?

 

[Corn Cracker]

 

[pc_trott]

How much we indulge ourselves and the potential health implications - beneficial or detrimental - are determined by who we are as individuals. Like most things in life, it's more complicated than biased Professor Fundraiser claims.

This is true, to a point; there are always corner cases like the 95-yr-old guy who's smoked a pack a day for seventy-five years with no apparent ill effects. But no one doubts that smoking is bad for health and longevity. There are patterns that can be tracked and identified, and the effect of alcohol consumption on sleep has been well studied and patterns identified. Genetic makeup and outside factors, such as how much exercise one gets during the day, can also have an effect on how alcohol affects your sleep patterns, but if you find yourself wondering why you are so tired during the day and where your energy has gone, when, what, and how much you imbibe is worth looking into.

As the ancients said, "Observe due measure; moderation is best in all things." That's the ticket!

 

[bracconiere]

here's me eating right...

and here's when i slipped and wasn't eating right for 2 years...

Diet plays a HUGE role in how one can handle drinking...

 

[hopjuice_71]

Many things are beyond rigorous scientific method, including clinical research and nutrition. There are far too many confounding variables and it would be unethical in most cases to attempt to control them.

This.

I had a family member covert to a fully plant-based diet not too long ago. This family member went on a crusade to convert all of the family to plant-based diets. I have an open mind but I don't do things for no reason. So, I made a deep dive into the literature. Holy moly is this area of "science" a disaster. It is littered with poorly controlled studies while the "data" itself is often interpreted in a subjective ( and possibly highly biased) way. I guess I'm on a bit of a rant now.. ..so why stop. Many of the studies, and this would include those on alcohol consumption, focus on a single outcome (e.g. cancer) while ignoring the full impact of the variable, which might otherwise be overall positive in terms of all cause mortality. In my opinion, only the ultra-large cohort studies, like EPIC and 40-and-Up, are providing some useful readout in the form of all cause mortality probabilities. I'm NOT making a comment here on whether beer is good or bad for you, but just supporting a healthy skepticism of this branch of science.

 

[hopjuice_71]

Just for fun, I found this: Relationship of Alcohol Consumption to All-Cause, Cardiovascular, and Cancer-Related Mortality in U.S. Adults - PubMed. It is open access so anyone should be able to read it. It is based on quite a large cohort (>300,000 participants) allowing best approximation of matching comparison groups. Here is the TL/DR from the abstract: "Conclusions: Light and moderate alcohol intake might have a protective effect on all-cause and CVD-specific mortality in U.S. adults. Heavy or binge drinking was associated with increased risk of all-cause and cancer-specific mortality."

Moderate alcohol intake was defined as <14 drinks per week (a drink being the equivalent of 12 oz of 5% beer).

For more fun, here is the graphical abstract that shows the J-shaped relationship between alcohol consumption and all-risk mortality which hits a minimum at ~7 drinks per week.

 

[monkeymath]

Just for fun, I found this: Relationship of Alcohol Consumption to All-Cause, Cardiovascular, and Cancer-Related Mortality in U.S. Adults - PubMed. It is open access so anyone should be able to read it. It is based on quite a large cohort (>300,000 participants) allowing best approximation of matching comparison groups. Here is the TL/DR from the abstract: "Conclusions: Light and moderate alcohol intake might have a protective effect on all-cause and CVD-specific mortality in U.S. adults. Heavy or binge drinking was associated with increased risk of all-cause and cancer-specific mortality."

The very basic question to ask yourself when looking at an observational study such as this one: in the society from which the participants are drawn, who abstains from alcohol? Alcohol is ubiquitous in most of Europe and, I imagine, the United States. To abstain from alcohol is usually an active decision which may often even have a negative impact on your social life, so you'll probably have some reason for it.
Now, some people simply do not like any alcoholic beverages, but one major impetus to eliminate your alcohol consumption entirely is health issues.
I don't think the people in this study died because they didn't drink, but the other way around.

 

[hopjuice_71]

The very basic question to ask yourself when looking at an observational study such as this one: in the society from which the participants are drawn, who abstains from alcohol? Alcohol is ubiquitous in most of Europe and, I imagine, the United States. To abstain from alcohol is usually an active decision which may often even have a negative impact on your social life, so you'll probably have some reason for it.
Now, some people simply do not like any alcoholic beverages, but one major impetus to eliminate your alcohol consumption entirely is health issues.
I don't think the people in this study died because they didn't drink, but the other way around.

I posted it so that people could draw whatever conclusions they want from it. However, the point of these large cohort studies is that they match the comparator groups on as many lifestyle factors as possible. They discuss this in the paper, including the handling of "abstainer bias". The lack of doing this is a criticism of many, many past studies, but they are better at it now . The presumption is that in this group of US adults that the reference group (abstainers) have as close to the same lifestyle factors as the other groups of drinkers. Other than that, take from it what you will. It doesn't influence my choices.

 

[pc_trott]

For more fun, here is the graphical abstract that shows the J-shaped relationship between alcohol consumption and all-risk mortality which hits a minimum at ~7 drinks per week.

According tothe findings of this meta-analysis of the existing literature on the subject, a misclassification of former drinkers as non-drinkers accounts for the J-curve:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/Is-It-Better-to-Drink-Little-Alcohol-Than-None-at-All/

 

[hopjuice_71]

According tothe findings of this meta-analysis of the existing literature on the subject, a misclassification of former drinkers as non-drinkers accounts for the J-curve:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/Is-It-Better-to-Drink-Little-Alcohol-Than-None-at-All/

The paper I posted even discusses this meta-analysis and the misclassification. It was one of their justifications for the re-investigation and more thorough experimental design/analysis. They still got the J-curve. The paper is open access, so anyone can read it.

Edit: Geez, I just realized this sounds like I'm defending or promoting this study or something. This isn't the case. I'm really just highlighting how truly complex these kind of issues/studies are and that there is an aspect of "unknowability" when they are so complex.

 

[RyPA]

It's the only reason I drink it.

 

[BigDave1303]

Yeah but part of the short life span could be attributed to constant pointless wars started by tyrants.....beer helped them find purpose in their lives....

200 years ago the average life expectancy was 45ish. Most of the illnesses they died of then have now been eradicated. ATM it's cancer, when they find a cure for that we will all die of whatever comes along next. We will all live to be 200 but we will have to work until we are 150 to pay for everything.
But we will still die in the end. I need another beer to take my mind off it.