Beer keeps going bad, need help.

[coleandrobin]

Ok guys. I've been brewing from extract on and off for about 3 years and generally have good results. However the last tree batches I have made have gone, for lack of a better term, sour. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I've been meticulous with sanitation and don't do anything to the beer between putting it in the primary and racking to my bottling bucket. The only variables I can think of are the following. First I made a new keggle and since beginning to use it no batch has come out right. However it is stainless steel and I have cleaned it VERY thoroughly and the first thing I made in it (Banana Wine) came out great. The second thing is I got a wort chiller that I have also used for every batch that has gone bad. However it is also stainless steel and I clean it well. It is the type of wort chiller that has two hoses connected with strapping instead of fixtures soldered onto the steel, so might it be possible that some small bit of hose water is getting it the cooling wort? Lastly the only thing I can think is that it might be from racking the cooled wort into to primary. If you guys have any experience with this I'd appreciate any help!

 

[Brewskey]

If you're truly getting soured beer batch after batch I would seriously doubt that the keggle or wort chiller would be the cause. If I were you I would replace any plastic (auto siphon, tubing, fermenter buckets) that may have come in contact with one of the previous infected batches.

 

[TnkDoc]

I'm no expert but I will give you my opinion. I don't think it is the keggle, boiling should kill anything that should sour your beer. I have had a chiller leak like you describes a couple times and didn't have a problem. Not saying that isn't the issue but I don't think it's likely. When you are cooling do you put a lid on the keggle? Something could be getting in there then. Also, if you use a plastic bucket for a primary, check and make sure you have no scratches in it. Same with your racking cane and bottling bucket. Is it a smooth transfer to your bottling bucket? Adding oxygen at that time is no good. The last thing I can think of would be your bottles.

 

[Qhrumphf]

When are you noticing the problem? Is it in the fermenters, or only once consuming from the bottle/keg? If you're noticing it in the fermenters, that narrows things down. In theory, it does for if it's only in bottles too, but it's possible that there's just not enough time for it to show itself so that's not as definite.

 

[flars]

What is your cleaning and sanitation procedure? What do you clean with and sanitize with?
Have you dismantled your siphon and cleaned it? Have you dismantled the spigot on your bottling bucket for cleaning?

 

[coleandrobin]

I haven't covered during cooling the wort, mainly because I have been trying to keep the chiller moving to cut down the chill time. Usually a smooth transfer but I have been pouring the wort between buckets to aerate the wort. I've noticed it the the primary each time, though I've gone ahead and bottled and really confirmed it after carbing and conditioning. I also have been using the same racking set up for wine and beer, never any problems with the wine, but could the wine be infecting the beer? Should I have separate set ups?

 

[coleandrobin]

I clean with mild dish soap and water, rinse thoroughly, and then use starsan. Yes I do take the siphon and spigot apart and clean it well, I also have a pipe cleaner rig on a string that I clean my tubing with.

 

[Calder]

Replace all tubing used on the cold side and Bleach-bomb all racking canes, siphons, spigots, etc.

For bleach, use about a tablespoon of bleach to a gallon of water, and soak everything for a few days (no metal). When you remove it, rinse thoroughly with HOT water.

You might want to fill your fermenter bucket with bleach solution, and put everything in there. That way you do the fermenter too.

 

[Hello]

Do you ever clean your ball valve?

 

[day_trippr]

So, reading the original post and simply taking everything at face value, I would suspect either the ball valve on the keggle or the CFC chiller - or both - was contaminated by the "banana wine" and have never been sufficiently cleaned and sanitized...

Cheers! ("banana wine"? )

 

[coleandrobin]

Well I haven't actually gotten to finish The keggle yet. So right now it only has the opening, no ball valve or sight glass. I've been transferring with the siphon. How long is it safe to leave the bleach solution in the buckets? I'm leaving town for over a week and I want to try to brew when I get back.

 

[m1k3]

Bleach can be left in plastic for a long long time (a week is no problem).

But you will want to get rid of the bleach odor since it is not a no rise sanitizer.

A dish soap wash (with lots of rinsing) and then StarSan resanitation should get rid of bleach.

 

[coleandrobin]

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Calder]

I've been transferring with the siphon. How long is it safe to leave the bleach solution in the buckets? I'm leaving town for over a week and I want to try to brew when I get back.

You can leave it in there for as long as you like. A year will be OK. I always keep my empty fermenters filled with mild bleach solution. Some are not used for months at a time. Never any issues. I use StarSan for the small stuff and bottling.

Bleach can be left in plastic for a long long time (a week is no problem). But you will want to get rid of the bleach odor since it is not a no rise sanitizer.

A dish soap wash (with lots of rinsing) and then StarSan resanitation should get rid of bleach.

I wouldn't use any dish soap. I usually rinse three times with a few pints of hot tap water and it's done. I use tap water when I brew, so I see no need to further sanitize my fermenters after rinsing.

You need to use hot water when rinsing off bleach. Bleach leaves a film on the surface, which is not removed with cold water, so it is important to use hot water.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I don't recall timelines, but I thought that as the active ingredient in was chlorine (or rather sodium hypochlorite that would dissociate into chlorine), that chlorine would evaporate pretty rapidly making bleach ineffective if you store it anywhere but a sealed container. I never keep bleach solution longer than overnight (and pretty much never use bleach when brewing, just other household cleaning).

 

[aprichman]

If you're using bleach, I would recommend going with 1/2 cup (~120mL) of bleach per gallon of water. That's the recommended dose for use as a sanitizer on hard surfaces.

 

[Calder]

If you're using bleach, I would recommend going with 1/2 cup (~120mL) of bleach per gallon of water. That's the recommended dose for use as a sanitizer on hard surfaces.

That is way more than you need, and just means more bleach residue to rinse away. From Clorox web site:

How to Clean Baby Bottles & More

Baby bottles, nipples, dishes and high chairs can be easily sanitized using Clorox® Regular-Bleach. Soak washed items for 2 minutes in a solution of 2 tsp of Clorox® Regular-Bleach per gallon of water. Pour solution through nipples. Drain dry.

I would think you would want to use as little as possible to get the job done, to minimize the risk of chlorine getting into the beer.

 

[Rhumbline]

I have found some funk growing in the flapper valve part of my autosiphon. You might check that.

Aside from that, I'd suggest eliminating everything you can, use plastic buckets where ever possible, don't use the wort chiller, etc.

 

[Bellybuster]

do you grind your grain in the same room you ferment in???

 

[aprichman]

That is way more than you need, and just means more bleach residue to rinse away. From Clorox web site:

How to Clean Baby Bottles & More

Baby bottles, nipples, dishes and high chairs can be easily sanitized using Clorox® Regular-Bleach. Soak washed items for 2 minutes in a solution of 2 tsp of Clorox® Regular-Bleach per gallon of water. Pour solution through nipples. Drain dry.

I would think you would want to use as little as possible to get the job done, to minimize the risk of chlorine getting into the beer.

I misspoke - Clorox recommends 1/2 cup (5.25%) per gallon to use as a disinfectant. 2 tsp per gallon is the recommended dilution for use as a sanitizer. Personally I'd rather go a little heavier and wash things off more thoroughly since other sanitizers like StarSan aren't working.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I don't think it's that Star-San isn't working unless it's not being used as directed (and Star-San is pretty hard not to use as directed, 1 oz per 5 gallons ideally in distilled water, and then 30 seconds contact time ie wet, boom, ready to go). Persistent infections are usually a cleaning problem. Odds are that there's scratches in something plastic that aren't getting properly cleaned, or that the equipment used to transfer from kettle to fermenter has a little nook that's not getting cleaned. If there's debris or soil present, Star-San won't be effective.

Could be the inside of the siphon or tubing associated with it. Another common source- are you using an aeration stone for aeration/oxgyenation? If so, how are you cleaning it? Cleaner/sanitizer doesn't really get into the poors very well, but bacteria can grow in there. I boil mine for about 15 minutes before using.