Beer is carbed, too much head- keg lines 5'

[joeunc]

I let it go around 12 to 15 psi for 10 days and it tastes perfect.
Only thing is, I get half a glass each time. I have the picnic taps and I open them fully and tilt the glass and it fills up very fast!
1/2 or larger head lots of times. I have not purged the headspace yet and reset the psi back to 12 or so yet.
My lines are 5' and the psi is still sitting in the 13 range.

Any advice, tips??

thanks
Joe

 

[Chemkrafty]

Longer beer line...start with 10 ft and cut it down 4 inches at a time until its pouring at a standard of 1 gallon/min. (you can test this with a keg full of water at the same pressure on the line to save beer...or its about 5-6 sec to fill a 12 oz glass)

Also make sure you are using 3/16" ID line and not 1/4" ID line that some stores sell. The restriction is totally different and you need about 14 feet of 1/4" line to equal the resistance in 5' of 3/16" line.

 

[joeunc]

I am using 3/16" ID line. I was hoping for a way to use the 5' lines. I have a mini fridge with 2 kegs, a CO2 tank with dual regulator and all the line in there now. 10' would really be cramped. Since the beer is carbed to my taste, I may purge the keg and set the psi at 5 to 8 and see how that serves.

 

[Bobby_M]

What if it does serve well at 5 psi? You gonna juggle the pressure up and down every time you want to pour? Waste of CO2 and a major PIA. You could get away with lower pressure if you dial the temp in at like 33F but I like my beer above 40F.

 

[jmo88]

I'd replace them and get 10' lines. Since you are using picnic taps you are not working with a fixed height, so you could try to pour your beers as high from the ground as you can. That will help, but I'm not sure if it'll be enough.

 

[joeunc]

Thanks Bobby, my temp is sitting right around 40 or a tad lower right now.
I know you need to keep the psi stable for serving and it's usually the same psi you carbed at correct? So if I take it to 5, it would probably begin to lose it's carbonation and then I would have to go back in and jack it back up right?

So is the only way to slow the pour down to get longer lines, if you want to keep the psi at 10 or slightly higher???

thanks

What if it does serve well at 5 psi? You gonna juggle the pressure up and down every time you want to pour? Waste of CO2 and a major PIA. You could get away with lower pressure if you dial the temp in at like 33F but I like my beer above 40F.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks Bobby, my temp is sitting right around 40 or a tad lower right now.
I know you need to keep the psi stable for serving and it's usually the same psi you carbed at correct? So if I take it to 5, it would probably begin to lose it's carbonation and then I would have to go back in and jack it back up right?

So is the only way to slow the pour down to get longer lines, if you want to keep the psi at 10 or slightly higher???

thanks

Yes. It'll stay carbed at 5 psi for a little while, but the pressure will try to equalize and you'll lose carbonation. If you want to keep the psi at 10 or higher (mine is at 12 psi at 40 degrees), and you don't want a glass of foam, you need longer lines.

 

[joeunc]

I called the "vendor" where I got my setup from and they said you could try to shut the gas off, turn the regulator down, and purge the headspace and wait about 5 mins and let the keg equalize and then hook it back up. Does that sound feasible? I will try it later when I get home and see.

Yes. It'll stay carbed at 5 psi for a little while, but the pressure will try to equalize and you'll lose carbonation. If you want to keep the psi at 10 or higher (mine is at 12 psi at 40 degrees), and you don't want a glass of foam, you need longer lines.

 

[IffyG]

I called the "vendor" where I got my setup from and they said you could try to shut the gas off, turn the regulator down, and purge the headspace and wait about 5 mins and let the keg equalize and then hook it back up. Does that sound feasible? I will try it later when I get home and see.

Yes, but it gets old in a hurry. I did it for about a month and got fed up with it and replaced my 5' line with a 10' line.

 

[Yooper]

I called the "vendor" where I got my setup from and they said you could try to shut the gas off, turn the regulator down, and purge the headspace and wait about 5 mins and let the keg equalize and then hook it back up. Does that sound feasible? I will try it later when I get home and see.

Sure, it'll work. And then you'll have to turn it back up to maintain carbonation. It'll work for serving, but then you'll have to turn it back up after pouring a few pints.

 

[joeunc]

Thanks,,I just didn't want to go through having to disconnect both beer lines and possibly have to get the new piece the quick disco screws into etc...My lines are the ones that came with the kit and have the nice hose clamps already on.
Plus about $20 worth of tubing at LHBS, but if I want a better pour I am going to have to do that, it appears.

Sure, it'll work. And then you'll have to turn it back up to maintain carbonation. It'll work for serving, but then you'll have to turn it back up after pouring a few pints.

 

[godrick]

Maybe I've missed something, but I use 5 foot lines, force carb at around 15 psi, let it set a day, then push my brew with around 5 psi as needed to make it flow. I've never had a noticeable loss in carbonation, and if I did, a quick shake @ 15 psi would bring it right back. Now, I confess that it's a rare keg that lasts more than 2 weeks in the fridge, but still. . .
Also, I've over carbonated a keg in the past and I found that it takes a week or more at 0 psi to bring it back down to where I like it.
Just saying. . .

 

[Yooper]

Maybe I've missed something, but I use 5 foot lines, force carb at around 15 psi, let it set a day, then push my brew with around 5 psi as needed to make it flow. I've never had a noticeable loss in carbonation, and if I did, a quick shake @ 15 psi would bring it right back. Now, I confess that it's a rare keg that lasts more than 2 weeks in the fridge, but still. . .
Also, I've over carbonated a keg in the past and I found that it takes a week or more at 0 psi to bring it back down to where I like it.
Just saying. . .

Well, your method is just different. It's not any better or worse than mine.

I take great pains to not even MOVE my kegs once clear and pouring perfectly, let alone shaking them! I hate sediment in my glass and I like a perfectly clear and perfectly carbonated beer.

I have several kegs and most last about 3 weeks or so, not much longer. I have perfectly carbed beers with perfect pours at 40 degrees and 12 psi for all American beer styles. If I had to lower them all to a different "serving" pressure, but then raise them for the beers that are carbing up, it would drive me crazy! I can pour any of the beers on tap right now and don't have to adjust/move/raise any kegs or regulators. I find that it's the most convenient for me. I have three on tap currently, with two carbing up in the same kegerator but not yet on tap, and all 5 kegs are at 12 psi.

 

[cfonnes]

A sort of related question. Is the clear hose at home depot the same stuff that the LHBS sells?

 

[rawlus]

the home depot is typically not beverage line. beverage line is much smoother inside, which reduces foam-causing friction.

not sure why so many resist stepping up to longer lines, the investment is really not all that much in the scheme of things, and eliminates 99% of the problems associated with foaming and shorter lines. any other approach treats the symptom but not the source of the problem (lowering serving pressure, etc)

longer lines are easily coiled, banded and kept out of the way so they dont have any greater impact on available storage space than the 5' lines.

 

[g8tor]

I'm using 4'4" of 3/16 ID hose on my keg. Pressure is set at 12 and temp is 39 and I'm using a cobra head style tap. I force carbed it by setting the pressure to 12 and leaving it. I tried it after one week and it looked great in the glass and was drinkable but on the flat side. Two weeks later the head was better and lasted longer and the carbonation of the beer was almost perfect. Three weeks later the carbonation was perfect. Its been four weeks now and the beer just keeps tasting better. I'm not sure why 5' of hose wouldn't work or how people are getting 10' of hose to work but I'm new to this and this is my first keg on my 3rd batch of beer so what do I know. I used this guide to set up my system:

http://www.beernut.com/zen-cart/pub/kegging.pdf

Scott

 

[Bobby_M]

The article in the link is well written and I agree with 98% of it. The one part that's in question is the statement that each foot of 3/16" tubing is worth a 3psi pressure drop. I think that's a little too generous. That suggests that 12 psi could be poured with 4' of tubing with no vertical rise at all. Most people with 4' of tubing are having major problems with foam. The other issue is that some people like to pour at 44F or beers with higher volumes of CO2 like wheat beers at 3+ volumes which requires pressure up near 15/16psi. With nothing more than anecdotal experience, I think the better rule of thumb is 2psi drop per foot.

10' of tubing takes all the guess work out of it.

 

[joeunc]

I am upgrading the tubing to 10' feet this weekend. I have both my kegs full right now so I will be quick about it. I tried the purge, wait 5mins, lower the pressure last night and it didn't really work all that well, so going to 10' lines. LHBS has beverage quality lines in stock.

 

[HumanGarbage]

....With nothing more than anecdotal experience, I think the better rule of thumb is 2psi drop per foot...

I can do better than anecdotal thanks to buying my taps from a professional supply house. The guy who helped me was putting together a eight tap assembly for one of the biggest nightclubs in town when I walked in...

As usual Bobby is right on. Two psi is a good rule of thumb. I was told that it was between 1.75 and 1.8 for 3/16" lines. These guys have a spreadsheet to figure out lengths and that was the value range in it.

I experimented of course and using five foot lines gave me too much head (had a spare five footer in the bin). I put ten footers on and I get a perfect pour every time. I run 12 psi and 38 degrees FWIW...

 

[joeunc]

ok I put the 10' lines on, psi at about 12 or 13 and the temp just below 40.
It seems better, but it is still half a pint of foam. I make sure to open the picnic tap all the way and lay it on the side of the glass and tilt the glass. It fills in less than 5secs and about 1/2 foam when before it was 3/4 foam; anymore suggestions?

thanks

 

[Yooper]

ok I put the 10' lines on, psi at about 12 or 13 and the temp just below 40.
It seems better, but it is still half a pint of foam. I make sure to open the picnic tap all the way and lay it on the side of the glass and tilt the glass. It fills in less than 5secs and about 1/2 foam when before it was 3/4 foam; anymore suggestions?

thanks

When you say "about 12 or 13 psi" is that because it's hard to read your gauge?

I'd purge the keg (maybe it's overcarbed) and reset at 11 psi and see how it pours.

You had it at 15 psi for a while, correct? If so, it could very well be overcarbed by now.

 

[joeunc]

i will purge,,,well when i turn my gauge I try to stop turning around 12, but when I come back in like 15mins, the gauge has risen on it's own and is reading about 18psi. After I shut the gas and purge how long should I wait before plugging back up?

big thanks

 

[Yooper]

i will purge,,,well when i turn my gauge I try to stop turning around 12, but when I come back in like 15mins, the gauge has risen on it's own and is reading about 18psi. After I shut the gas and purge how long should I wait before plugging back up?

big thanks

That's an indication that it's overcarbed. Turn off the gas, and pull the pressure relief valve a couple of times a day. It should be ok in a couple of days.

From now on, pay closer attention to the numbers. "About 12 - 15" is a big difference!

Here's a carb table: http://ebrew.com/primarynews/ct_carbonation_chart.htm

As you can see, 12 psi at 40 degrees is nearly 2.5 volumes. If you're at 15 psi, it's quite a bit overcarbed at 2.75 volumes.

I keep mine at 12 psi at 40 degrees all the time, no going up, and no going down. I never have overcarbonation or foaming problems.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yeah, if the gauge creeps up to 18psi, it's an indication that you're carbed to about 3 volumes. Keep the gas off the keg and purge the headspace pressure often.

 

[joeunc]

thanks guys, I will "burp" it over the next several days and keep the psi down while I try to dial it in. And man, getting that picnic tap into the end of the 3/16" line even after soaking in hot water, is a ******!!!. The quick disco end goes in easily.