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Beer Cellar thread - real cellars, closet cellars, fridge cellars, freezer cellars, wine coolers

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From the recommendation of someone else, I recently found out that the milk crates I have will hold 28 x 375mls and can be easily stacked in my chest freezer. I haven't tried with Cantillon 750s (C&C bottles won't fit), but I'm pretty sure it will be able to hold at least 15, up to 18, and still be stackable.
 
Craigslist find for $375 + a **** ton more money in Beer


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finally organized all my junk. bought a heavy duty shelf unit at home depot today, and set it up this evening. gonna add some bungee cords for earthquake retention and screw it to the wall tomorrow, though if it really shakes badly here the beer will be the least of my concerns. shelves allow 14 rows of 750s, and go 7 deep. pretty stoked!

tDoSoev.jpg


garage stays between 50 and 55 year round, and doesn't get any direct light. haven't taken any humidity readings yet - probably won't.

not shown: waaaaayyyy too much BCBS (and variants) and RR sours in boxes down below.
 
i have been searching for crawl space cellar pics and i keep seeing people walking in these crawl spaces. apparently google or people making these do not understand what CRAWL space means.

the idea of crawling in dirt to get my cantillon kinda sucks though.
 
finally organized all my junk. bought a heavy duty shelf unit at home depot today, and set it up this evening. gonna add some bungee cords for earthquake retention and screw it to the wall tomorrow, though if it really shakes badly here the beer will be the least of my concerns. shelves allow 14 rows of 750s, and go 7 deep. pretty stoked!

tDoSoev.jpg


garage stays between 50 and 55 year round, and doesn't get any direct light. haven't taken any humidity readings yet - probably won't.

not shown: waaaaayyyy too much BCBS (and variants) and RR sours in boxes down below.

That looks really good. I love the corner of SARA beer and the middle lambic section. If you need someone to free up some of the BCBS variants just let me know.
 
so question for you peeps, do I need a temperature control regulator for the freezerless refrigerator I just bought, or will it keep at higher temps (50-55) without one? There is no freezer, it's a refrigerator.
 
so question for you peeps, do I need a temperature control regulator for the freezerless refrigerator I just bought, or will it keep at higher temps (50-55) without one? There is no freezer, it's a refrigerator.

Buy a $10 thermometer and find out. I have a dorm fridge that keeps things at about 50 on the lowest (highest?) setting.
 
fair point, does any thermometer work, or do they make ones specifically for the insides of refrigerators?
As long as the thermometer goes down to ~40 (or lower) you'll be fine. I got a big outdoor one for my cellar so I can see it from far away at a glance.
 
see a lot of capped bottles horizontal? aside from storage, is there any harm to this? i know caps have a coating on them, any chances of rusting?
 
So excited, my beer fridge was finally delivered today!

Shelves aren't as adjustable as I'd like (and not at all on the door, so this ought to be interesting)

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starting to load it up

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RR rours, WW sours, small format Cantillon/3F, other stuff
2015-05-01%2014.50.42.jpg


KBS, Prairie stuff, Jackie O's stuff
2015-05-01%2014.50.48.jpg

CS stuff, FW Barrelworks stuff
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BA Framinghammers, Cantillon 750s, some other AWA stuff
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22oz ADJUNCTS/BA nonsense!
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750ml ADJUNCTS/BA nonsense/my best AWAs/saisons!
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small format BA stuff, my FW BA stuff
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the whole shot. dat's all mang!
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I managed to fit 213 bottles in there:

65 12oz bottles
38 375ml "
16 500ml "
41 22oz "
53 750ml "

not too shabby
 
You might be able to help the shelves with the larger format bottles (if they have enough headroom) by putting some plywood down on top of them.
great idea, thank you! there is plenty of room on those 2 large format shelves, more than 2-3" of headspace each. so all I would do is go have a piece cut at a Home Depot or something? do I need to worry about air circulating around the wood, or will it be fine as is. I doubt it'd be a snug airtight fit anyway
 
great idea, thank you! there is plenty of room on those 2 large format shelves, more than 2-3" of headspace each. so all I would do is go have a piece cut at a Home Depot or something? do I need to worry about air circulating around the wood, or will it be fine as is. I doubt it'd be a snug airtight fit anyway
Getting a piece cut at home depot would be fine, and you don't need to worry about air circulation. Fridges are really dry so the wood won't rot, and it's unlikely to matter on the timescale you're looking at anyway.
 
Getting a piece cut at home depot would be fine, and you don't need to worry about air circulation. Fridges are really dry so the wood won't rot, and it's unlikely to matter on the timescale you're looking at anyway.
awesome, thanks again. now I know what I'm doing early tomorrow AM pre-hockey!

I just like opening the door and looking at my beer :)
 
It should help a bit. You can take measurements to Home Depot and they should be able to cut from a sheet.
 
Has anyone here tried creating a root cellar of sorts where you essentially bury a bunch of beer in the ground for long-term aging?

Obviously not very convenient, but seems like it could be a decent "out of sight/out of mind" idea for stuff you know you want to age for like 10 years or so.
 
Has anyone here tried creating a root cellar of sorts where you essentially bury a bunch of beer in the ground for long-term aging?

Obviously not very convenient, but seems like it could be a decent "out of sight/out of mind" idea for stuff you know you want to age for like 10 years or so.

i did a few yrs ago...last weekend went looking...haven't found the bottles yet:

Mole_holes_in_yard.JPG


i should've made a better map :(
 
I've actually already done so, and the results are, as far as I can tell, still inconclusive. Some studies find considerable positive effect for horizontal storage, some find none (of course, most of these are over comparatively short timescales, so I could be wrong over very long timescales). My chemistry background has more to do with fuel analysis (though I have done some food assays professionally) so what experience I have with wine/beer storage is almost entirely due to non-professional interest, so I might be mis-reading the literature. I think the question is still fairly open, and the mechanisms aren't yet well understood -- in fact, we've kind of glossed over another possible difference: even if the the interactions between water and the cork is the same for both orientations, there's a lot more than water in wine/beer, so I yield the only statement I'm actually willing to defend is that orientation likely doesn't affect cork hydration directly.

If you wish to expand upon the literature further when you have time, I'd read it, as I do have an interest in the topic.



100% with you here. There are some similarities between wine and beer, but there are also so many differences it's hard to know. I've seen a little literature on beer storage, but most of it had to do with setting a baseline for the properties of beer over time than examining things like orientation or bottle size.


I get where you're coming from, but you're diving into a well-studied (if also myth-ridden) field. Start with a basic review of the literature (I'm on my way out and don't have time to provide right now, but there are literally entire journals devoted to preservation and storage of wine), but the evidence for wine of the benefits of horizontal storage long-term is clear and unambiguous as regards ullage, and sensory and chemical analysis. This is why it's an interesting question for beer, because beer generally has such different closures that transferring knowledge (e.g. "large bottles age better") from the wine world to the beer world is often a mistake unless the specific mechanisms are well-understood, which is particularly difficult in older beer as regards their closures because of the lack of uniform quality in corks and crown caps up until the late 90s/early 2000s. It's precisely because we're trying to avoid received knowledge from the wine world that we're asking these questions.

<3 this convo.

So IMO the whole horizontal/vertical issue boils down to cork integrity, and potential loss of elasticity which may yield faster diffusion oxygen diffusion rates of the liquid. If the cork never changed its structure, the orientation would not impact the diffusion rate of oxygen (Henry's Law in conjunction with Fick diffusion across cork membranes).

First off, carbonated vs. non-carbonated is not an issue when discussing oxygen diffusion through the cork. As mentioned above, diffusion occurs only due to the partial pressure of the oxygen, independent of other gasses. Most of the high pressure within a carbonated bottle comes from CO2. That said, increased pressure within a beer or champagne bottle may impact the physical structure of the cork, although as far as I know this has not been studied. I'd think that the size, shape, and composition of the cork plays a far more important role.

It should also be noted that 100% humidity within the bottle does not equal the same level of saturation of a cork as direct-contact with the liquid. Water absorption during vertical storage relies upon internal pressure whereas horizontal storage utilizes direct static/capillary action of the cork to absorb liquid. There's also the question of volatility of compounds - not everything is volatile at cellar temp, and therefore would have minimal impact on the cork integrity.

Fundamentally, vertical storage relying upon water vapor will not saturate a cork as well as horizontal storage. Absorption of water vapor by a cork discussed here. Absorption of water, wine, etc. by cork is well-studied (it occurs in direct contact) - here's a good article. I can provide some anecdotal evidence - my dad had a case of wine that was 10-12 years old. Some of the bottles from the case were stored horizontally in a closet, and the others were stored vertically (due to space constraints). A few Christmases ago we opened bottles of both orientation and he horizontal bottles had saturated corks whereas the corks of the vertical bottles were not saturated and were far drier overall.

That, however, doesn't mean horizontal storage is better. If you've ever had an old beer (or an old wine), you'll know that corks have a tendency to lose their elasticity, which yields a cork that is quite easy to remove from the bottle (there was a champagne-related study circulating around but nobody could seem to find the source of the data). This loss of elasticity also has a tendency to reduce the cellular matrix structure of the cork, which would yield increased oxygen diffusion (since the liquid within the bottle doesn't affect the diffusion rate, just the partial pressures of the O2).

Therefore, as stupac2 mentioned earlier:
****'s complicated man.

The critical piece of this discussion/analysis is composition and quality of the cork. Cork sourcing and manufacturing has changed over the years, and as such you will see variance within a single brewery (like Cantillon).

I'd say don't worry to much about it, unless you are trying to age very valuable or rare beers. Then, do what the manufacturer does (usually horizontal).
 

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