Beer Buyouts

[bobeer]

My wife has always loved Lagunitas IPA so I'm trying to ween her off of their IPA. I bought some Hop Stoopid a few weeks back because I used to really dig the 24 oz bombers of it. I also bought a single bottle of.... hmm... can't recall atm! haha. Anyway, my point is they all tasted the damn same! I couldn't believe it but it's true. While the Hop Stoopid has more abv than the IPA they tasted the same. I'm still sort of shocked but I do recall when Red Hook was bought out all their beer started tasting the same as well. Not sure why they do that but it is disappointing.

 

[allanmorgan]

So does anyone know of a good, one stop, up to date website.

This hasn't been updated since 2015, but it will get you started.

https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/map-actually-makes-your-beer/

Scroll down a little to get to the map and click it to get a larger view.

 

[theheadonthedoor]

Here are a few good articles. Probably biased, just like all of us, so feel free to look into any claim however you can.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...ost-million/xggomENVLTEHkdJ3kqkJsL/story.html

*https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.pa...aw-man-arguments-of-craft-beer-sell-outs.html

*http://www.moderntimesbeer.com/blog/what-selling-out-actually-about

*http://www.westcoastersd.com/2015/09/10/saint-archer-brewery-sells-out-to-big-beer/

I've been chatting with some brewers in the PNW like Fort George, Fatheads, Bale Breaker, and Great Notion and it's nice to hear that lots of brewers have strong convictions about not selling out.

But I guess that didn't stop Lagunitas despite his fervor for staying independent in his book.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Here are a few good articles. Probably biased, just like all of us, so feel free to look into any claim however you can.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...ost-million/xggomENVLTEHkdJ3kqkJsL/story.html

*https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.pa...aw-man-arguments-of-craft-beer-sell-outs.html

*http://www.moderntimesbeer.com/blog/what-selling-out-actually-about

*http://www.westcoastersd.com/2015/09/10/saint-archer-brewery-sells-out-to-big-beer/

I've been chatting with some brewers in the PNW like Fort George, Fatheads, Bale Breaker, and Great Notion and it's nice to hear that lots of brewers have strong convictions about not selling out.

But I guess that didn't stop Lagunitas despite his fervor for staying independent in his book.

I honestly wonder what would happen if somebody walked in with one of those giant "golf checks" made out for $1B payable in their name. It's easy to be all beard growing, flannel wearing cool dude brewer but I am guessing a good many of them would be out the door before they said, "I do".

Regarding distribution, not sure if this is an exact parallel but I used to work for what is now a multi-$B computer distributor and unless you were a major player chances are you weren't going to get onto our line card. It was a very tough battle for the smaller guys. Even if we signed them, unless they paid exorbitant marketing dollars and sales rebates they wouldn't get access to the sales team and very little in terms of marketing support.

For us, and all distributors, it was all about back end rebates and "turns". No more. No less. I don't care if you're distributing those new spinny thingies kids play with today, high tech computer gear, or beer.

How much can I make before I sell even 1 Unit. How much can I make for bringing in a bunch of units and turning them while I'm still using your money.

I admit I don't know much about beer distribution but it seems to work on a similar model as any other distributor - sell the crap that sells and makes you money coming in the door and going out the door.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Just don't buy any retail beer at all like me and you won't have to worry about who sold out to who

Brew, package, distribute and drink your own beer!

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Just don't buy any retail beer at all like me and you won't have to worry about who sold out to who

Brew, package, distribute and drink your own beer!

I can't agree with you more, however if you don't also grow and malt your own barley and grow your own hops too, then you also will end up buying from AB or be affected by AB leveraged distributors, Morebeer and Northern Brewer are owned by AB now. AB now has leverage on your malt supplier. If they ask the homebrew supplier for a break on malt cost, who do you think picks up the slack. That's right it is your homebrew supplier, unless you shop with Morebeer or Northern Brewer in which case your brewing cost will only go up 25% instead of 50% if you shop off brands. Congratulations!

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Sorry, I got carried away. I love my fellow homebrewers and love the off the grid feeling I get myself when I brew. I love it when I can do my own thing and get real advice from people like you who only drink what they brew.

That's why it pisses me off when these guys buy strategically to get me to buy homebrew supplies and beer for more, from only them. Seriously, do you think they literally call it the "disruptive growth unit" because they want to enrich the craft scene. Have you seen their commercials lambasting craft brew. AB wants to you to buy only their beer and would make the beer out of homebrewers flesh if they could do it for less cost and more profit.

 

[madscientist451]

Morebeer and Northern Brewer are owned by AB now. AB now has leverage on your malt supplier.

I wasn't aware Morebeer had sold out, so I checked their website:

Today - Our company is still owned and operated by Olin Schultz, Darren Schleth and Chris Graham with the help of all of our amazing employees. There is a common theme that all of us are passionate about flavor and making beer, wine and roasting coffee. We hope to share that passion with you and we sincerely thank you for shopping with us.

There isn't any evidence that ABInBev's business activities affects the cost of raw ingredients to anyone else, that's just pure conjecture, or what in 2017 we'd call "fake news".
One of the first things ABInBev did when they took over AB was raise their prices, but with market share declining, ABI could LOWER prices to win back customers and put economic pressure on their competitors.
A price war would be a big win for consumers but would make those that don't understand how the economy actually works complain the ABI is "unfair and unethical" just like they do now.
But nobody needs to worry about that right now, because that doesn't appear to be ABInBev's strategy at the moment. Their strategy seems to be to keep prices the same and acquire more "craft" brands to offset declining sales of their flagship beers.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I can't agree with you more, however if you don't also grow and malt your own barley and grow your own hops too, then you also will end up buying from AB or be affected by AB leveraged distributors, Morebeer and Northern Brewer are owned by AB now. AB now has leverage on your malt supplier. If they ask the homebrew supplier for a break on malt cost, who do you think picks up the slack. That's right it is your homebrew supplier, unless you shop with Morebeer or Northern Brewer in which case your brewing cost will only go up 25% instead of 50% if you shop off brands. Congratulations!

MoreBeer sold out to them too? I had no idea.

 

[allanmorgan]

^^^
You beat me to it. I couldn't find anything about More Beer being owned by ABI either.

 

[jensek]

I can't agree with you more, however if you don't also grow and malt your own barley and grow your own hops too, then you also will end up buying from AB or be affected by AB leveraged distributors, Morebeer and Northern Brewer are owned by AB now. AB now has leverage on your malt supplier. If they ask the homebrew supplier for a break on malt cost, who do you think picks up the slack. That's right it is your homebrew supplier, unless you shop with Morebeer or Northern Brewer in which case your brewing cost will only go up 25% instead of 50% if you shop off brands. Congratulations!

Pricing doesn't really work like this...

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I don't get it. You can support the little guy while hes struggling but the second they make it and get rich you throw them under the bus.
Everyone of those companies that got bought out are laughing all the way to the bank. The very reason they sold the company. Its not Inbevs fault the company sold. They could have easily just said no thanks. Its the small brewer who had a dream of getting rich brewing beer. AND IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED...God forbid.

Reminds me of the people that bitch and complain that the super rich don't pay enough taxes but if they hit lotto for 100 million those exact same people would hire the dream team of lawyers to hold onto as much money as possible...SMH

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Everyone of those companies that got bought out are laughing all the way to the bank. The very reason they sold the company. Its not Inbevs fault the company sold. They could have easily just said no thanks. Its the small brewer who had a dream of getting rich brewing beer. AND IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED...God forbid.

Nobody is arguing that point at all. I'd sell out too if someone offered my brewery a billion dollars. But I'm not in that position, I'm a consumer. They have enough money now, they don't need anymore of mine.

 

[Anon111]

That's why it pisses me off when these guys buy strategically to get me to buy homebrew supplies and beer for more, from only them. <znip> AB wants to you to buy only their beer and would make the beer out of homebrewers flesh if they could do it for less cost and more profit.

So they bought my lhbs? You made the claim, so you also provide the arguments.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

we'd call "fake news".

. It is happening here in Phoenix AZ. I can see it reflected in the prices in the grocery stores and liquor stores I shop. It's all fake news, we could be a figment of the spaghetti monsters imagination, but when I see the effect with my own eyes...

My bad. I meant Midwest Supplies not Morebeer.

 

[Turkeyshot]

So does anyone know of a good, one stop, up to date website that keeps score of all the brands and who owns what and what is still independent?

I ask more out of curiosity than out of a shopping agenda.

Try this site. https://www.craftorcrafty.com/

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

So they bought my lhbs? You made the claim, so you also provide the arguments.

My claim is they bought a big segment of the LHBS market when they purchased NB and MS. Using these retailers as leverage against little guys like your LHBS is EXACTLY how the market works. Walmart.

 

[jalc6927]

What about adventure in homebrewing? Are they still independently owned? I know they are in cohoots with Austin home brew

 

[Anon111]

My claim is they bought a big segment of the LHBS market when they purchased NB and MS. Using these retailers as leverage against little guys like your LHBS is EXACTLY how the market works. Walmart.

Ouch. I heard of their claims on several top patented hops but hadn't heard of serious tactical acquisitions.

 

[shoengine]

I can appreciate the increased distribution, however I can confirm that in the heart of Craft's territories that six packs of the popular stuff, per bottle is over $2.00 now. It used to be around $1.50.

I have personally not seen a change on quality, just distribution. However eventually any publicly held company will experience lower growth over time which will induce weaker profits and less dividends to shareholders. This will eventually affect the bottom line, and the quality of the product.

 

[madscientist451]

. It is happening here in Phoenix AZ. I can see it reflected in the prices in the grocery stores and liquor stores I shop. It's all fake news, we could be a figment of the spaghetti monsters imagination, but when I see the effect with my own eyes...

My bad. I meant Midwest Supplies not Morebeer.

To AzCooler....In your post I quoted from, you were talking about the cost of MALT SUPPLIES to homebrewers, not something you are buying at the grocery or liquor store. My point was that there isn't any proof that ABI is having any effect at all on the price of homebrew items.
But if you want to change the subject....
The US now has more than 5700 breweries, so retail beer price increases can't be all ABInBev's fault.
Changing the subject again, I've thought for a long time that small brewery prices are somewhat high.
Beer producers will charge what they think the market will bear. $6 a pint for mediocre beer at some small brewery in the middle of nowhere is pretty ridiculous, but if people are willing to pay that, that's what they are going to charge.

 

[skidmark]

What about adventure in homebrewing? Are they still independently owned? I know they are in cohoots with Austin home brew

AIH bought Austin outright. AIH is still owned by the founders (no, not the brewery).

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

To AzCooler....In your post I quoted from, you were talking about the cost of MALT SUPPLIES to homebrewers, not something you are buying at the grocery or liquor store. My point was that there isn't any proof that ABI is having any effect at all on the price of homebrew items.
But if you want to change the subject....
The US now has more than 5700 breweries, so retail beer price increases can't be all ABInBev's fault.
Changing the subject again, I've thought for a long time that small brewery prices are somewhat high.
Beer producers will charge what they think the market will bear. $6 a pint for mediocre beer at some small brewery in the middle of nowhere is pretty ridiculous, but if people are willing to pay that, that's what they are going to charge.

Malt supplies have been affected, but I wouldn't say the price effects are the most transparent. Try to buy malt from a cottage malt company and have it mailed to you farm to you. If you know of such a maltster that I don't have to drive to their malt floor to get some fresh craft malt and can get it direct without buying from a distributor then let me know. That is the beer I most want to make. Also looking for farm to table fresh hops.

I think the free market is an incredible solution to a problem that consumers have suffered throughout history. For a short time we experienced a beer renaissance. Big beer was caught on their heels. Those boys are back now and determined to get back what's there's. We the consumers must say what we want and understand exactly what that is to win in this market.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Malt supplies have been affected, but I wouldn't say the price effects are the most transparent. Try to buy malt from a cottage malt company and have it mailed to you farm to you. If you know of such a maltster that I don't have to drive to their malt floor to get some fresh craft malt and can get it direct without buying from a distributor then let me know. That is the beer I most want to make. Also looking for farm to table fresh hops.

I think the free market is an incredible solution to a problem that consumers have suffered throughout history. For a short time we experienced a beer renaissance. Big beer was caught on their heels. Those boys are back now and determined to get back what's there's. We the consumers must say what we want and understand exactly what that is to win in this market.

As a consumer nobodys winning or loosing...its beer for Christ sake...I'm not changing my drinking habits to "win" from the big guys...that just sounds ridiculous.
If you want farm fresh go to a farmers market and see what they charge. Big business doesn't raise prices it lowers it. Not to mention "farm fresh hops" are only available for like a week a year. We have hop farms popping up all over where I live that sell wet hops to the public for a nano second a year on harvest day.

 

[madscientist451]

Deer Creek MaltHouse is near me, I've never used their malt and to buy retail you have to get it through Keystone Homebrew. Its somewhat pricey at $2.45/Lb. I'm kind of cheapskate and buy sacks of grain for $.60-.80 a lb. There are more small maltsters around, but most of them let someone else handle the retail sales.

http://deercreekmalt.com/product-information/

http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/shop/beer/ingredients/grains.html?
maltster=192


Here's another one:

http://www.doubleeaglemalt.com/

 

[jalc6927]

AIH bought Austin outright. AIH is still owned by the founders (no, not the brewery).

That's good, I like those guys

 

[jalc6927]

AIH bought Austin outright. AIH is still owned by the founders (no, not the brewery).

Good thing I like dealing with them

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

As a consumer nobodys winning or loosing...its beer for Christ sake...I'm not changing my drinking habits to "win" from the big guys...that just sounds ridiculous.
If you want farm fresh go to a farmers market and see what they charge. Big business doesn't raise prices it lowers it. Not to mention "farm fresh hops" are only available for like a week a year. We have hop farms popping up all over where I live that sell wet hops to the public for a nano second a year on harvest day.

As a consumer for we "win" when we get products that we want that meet our needs. Some products aren't available for any price like Hearst's Rosebud. Others we get for free like our mother's love, so price isn't always a factor. For me a win would be as many different varieties as the market can bear at a reasonable price, not the lowest price possible, but a variety of prices. That way, as my tastes and finances change I can always find something fun and new to try. Until recently, that was how it seemed. Lately though selection has diminished while prices have steeply risen. At least that is my experience and the most reasonable explanation from my perspective is the "disruptive growth" units of AB/MillerCoors.

BTW I know it's just beer and I don't care like I care about if my car is running tomorrow, but you have to cut me some slack since this is a generally beer related forum where we discuss beer things.

 

[jensek]

I can appreciate the increased distribution, however I can confirm that in the heart of Craft's territories that six packs of the popular stuff, per bottle is over $2.00 now. It used to be around $1.50.

I have personally not seen a change on quality, just distribution. However eventually any publicly held company will experience lower growth over time which will induce weaker profits and less dividends to shareholders. This will eventually affect the bottom line, and the quality of the product.

1. High growth companies generally don’t issue dividends.
2. High growth does not necessarily translate to higher profits.
3. Low growth does not necessarily translate into lower profits.
4. Low growth companies generally pay higher dividends.
5. Slow growth does not necessarily translate into less quality. If it does the price adjusts accordingly.

 

[jensek]

As a consumer for we "win" when we get products that we want that meet our needs. Some products aren't available for any price like Hearst's Rosebud. Others we get for free like our mother's love, so price isn't always a factor. For me a win would be as many different varieties as the market can bear at a reasonable price, not the lowest price possible, but a variety of prices. That way, as my tastes and finances change I can always find something fun and new to try. Until recently, that was how it seemed. Lately though selection has diminished while prices have steeply risen. At least that is my experience and the most reasonable explanation from my perspective is the "disruptive growth" units of AB/MillerCoors.

BTW I know it's just beer and I don't care like I care about if my car is running tomorrow, but you have to cut me some slack since this is a generally beer related forum where we discuss beer things.

The first lesson in economics is that there are scarce resources and that those resources have alternate uses.

The most reasonable explanation for your dissatisfaction is not because of ABInbev, but that your preferences no longer line up with the preferences of the market in general.