BEER + BBQ = HEALTHY!!!!(marinade negates carcinogens)

[HomebrewCraig]

Aaaaahhhhhhh..you stepped in it brother....

As sleeping on your back is BEST for your spine!!!!!!!

But sleeping on you back is BAD for your heart.....

Singlemindedness is BAD and we come back to MODERATION.

Stress is the underrated killer. What alleviates stress, but has a 5% chance of causing lethal cancer, seems a good bet to me!

GAWD DAMN!!!! Relieves stress, but doesn't benefit health?????????? You have my pity.

Regardless of what you say, stress management is KEY for ME.

I understand where you are coming from, but you can also choose something else to ease your stress... Fishing, for example.. Or pinochle, or walks in the forest, or raising hamsters. You know, things that are not proven cancer causers. Smoking a pipe may give you some short-term pleasure and relaxation, but what's that surgeon general's message on your pouch of tobacco say?

 

[chocotaco]

I should ignore this thread, which I'm only incidentally involved in, but I can't. I have a couple of things to say.

First of all, HomebrewCraig, you are quick to espouse the evils of consuming meat. You have a dozen anecdotes and even a few studies to back it up. But apparently you've chosen to remain blind to all the similar studies which come to similar conclusions about beer. Otherwise you wouldn't be here. You choose to drink beer, despite the fact that many people (some of them scholars, who have crafted studies to back up their beliefs) consider it to be unhealthy, carcinogenic, and the cause of deaths and sickness.

Second, I don't begrudge you your beliefs. If you have chosen a meatless life, and it makes you happy, I commend you for it. Everyone should be so lucky as to find the thing that makes them happy. If you have a family member who is ailing, and you really believe that vegetarianism would help them, then I encourage you to make your case to them - so that you believe for yourself that you tried to help. However, many people do not share your beliefs about meat being unhealthy. I won't argue one way or the other, because whatever it is that we eat or drink, we will die. Some of us will be healthy and die of old age; others will be sickly and die earlier. But whatever comes between now and our demise is what we choose, and what we choose should be what makes us happy. What makes you happy is avoiding meat. What makes other people happy is consuming it. I don't think it's your place to assume that what makes you happy will make everyone happy; nor to argue with relative strangers about their life choices.

Lastly, you are welcome to make a case for vegetarianism on this forum. BUT FOR ****'S SAKE, DO THAT IN ITS OWN THREAD! THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT MEAT VS. VEGETABLES. Forum etiquette trumps your need to blabber about vegetables at every opportunity. If you must, post a link in this thread to your new thread about how vegetables are The Road To Wellville. Then remove yourself from this thread about something completely unrelated (marinating meat in beer). I believe things, too, but I don't take it upon myself to threadjack and "spread the word" about how everything I think is the only way to think.

I would also chastise the people who argued with you, but it kind of seems to me like most of them were just trying to defend this thread, which you invaded. You are the invader in this thread. You are attempting to use it as a platform to shout your beliefs at everyone. Make a new thread about it, and the forum will welcome the discussion.

 

[chocotaco]

Further, as long as I'm on the subject, I think I should say something about Studies.

Studies which claim something absolutely should be considered with skepticism. Real scientists perform exhaustive tests, and present their data. They might also make a tenuous conclusion about what their data might say about the natural world. But REAL scientists will never, EVER, claim that their tests bring mankind to an inescapable conclusion. Any study which does so has a pre-existing agenda - and pre-existing agendas are the enemy of science.

Whether I am a billion-dollar corporation with an agenda, or just a loyal vegetarian, or Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu/Pagan/Etc., or breastfeeding/formula feeding mom, or some other person with an agenda - the furthering of which will make me feel better about myself - it is a simple matter for me to create a "study" which confirms my own beliefs. So long as the data I submit seems sound, I can get accepted into a peer-reviewed journal - even if my data has been manipulated by any of a thousand factors that I can use to select the data I want. From there, it is a short road to media mass hysteria about the sweeping impact my conclusions should have on mankind; on the way we eat and drink, on the way we raise our children, or on the beliefs we hold about the universe. The fact that the journals and the media are so complicit with this is unfortunate, but hardly surprising, as they all make their living from the circus of publicity and hysteria.

What I'm saying, to whoever reads this, is that critical thinking - real, skeptical critical thinking - is a prerequisite for reading any study; and reading about studies in the mass media is worse than useless. Read the original study, and look for cofactors that they missed (intentionally or not). Look for biases and improper jumps to conclusions. And if the study makes a sweeping statement, regard that study with a skeptic's eye. Real studies are little more than data, with a suggestion to the reader about what the researchers think that data might mean. Look at that data, and make your own conclusion before you jump to that of the researchers - who were likely paid by some lobby to come to that conclusion.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

I cannot make a new thread about it, the sub-forum for debate is for Supporting Members only.

Also, your assumptions fail you. I do not remain blind to the studies about alcohol consumption. On the contrary, I am very cognizant of what alcohol does to the human. I drink maybe one or two beers per week on average. (Search my history, see that I am most active in the 1 Gallon Brewers thread) And yet despite knowing, I make my own educated decision to drink or not to drink. There are people who have replied to me who do not make an educated decision. They eat based on how their culture has raised them.

This thread's title says that it's HEALTHY to marinate meat in beer. Categorically false, and I chose to refute it. If you came to the forum and saw a thread about how healthy it is to put your hand in a garbage disposal, would you not feel compelled to make at least one post? At least in the hopes that there aren't people who actually believe it.

And I blabber about vegetables at every opportunity because I have to, in reply to those who are in complete disbelief and outright outrage that I'd actually say something which contradicts. I didn't invade, I made a statement to ensure that truth does not get trampled underfoot

By the way, long live cauliflower. That stuff replaces chicken in so many recipes...

 

[dkwolf]

I cannot make a new thread about it, the sub-forum for debate is for Supporting Members only.

Then either pony up the $30 and become a supporting member so you can spout your garbage at will, or QUIT TRYING TO MAKE THIS THREAD A DEBATE.

The original post was regarding how marinating in beer can lessen the carcinogenic properties of grilled meat. Your "Bad Hunter" crusade is, and has been, off-topic to that the entire time. There is no such thing as 'debate' with people like you, because as far as you're concerned, anyone whose opinion differs from yours is automatically wrong.

I eat meat. It has nothing to do with what my "culture" says I should do; I like the taste of a good steak or pork chop, and in my book there is nothing better than a GOOD hamburger. Sure, I might have higher cholesterol than you. But guess what? I DON'T CARE. I'm not at all concerned about possible cancer from meat. I figure skin cancer from my years on a construction and survey crew, or lung cancer from both asbestos and cigarette smoke exposure are going to do me in LONG before meat is going to kill me, assuming the many opportunities to get myself killed as a firefighter don't get me sooner.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

Garbage, eh? Guess we see where you stand on the meat/vegetable debate.

 

[dkwolf]

Garbage, eh? Guess we see where you stand on the meat/vegetable debate.

When someone only gives merit to the "studies" that agree with their personal opinion, and automatically discredit anything to the contrary, yes, in my eyes their opinion is garbage.

 

[chocotaco]

I cannot make a new thread about it, the sub-forum for debate is for Supporting Members only.

What do you suppose the above fact is saying? To me, it's saying: "If you're not a supporting member, leave your controversies at the door, or take them elsewhere." In your case, there are many other places to debate this idea. And your comparison to a hand in a garbage disposal is a straw man argument. Empirically it is so, whether or not you accept it. You could find any number of logical fallacies to describe my own posts here, but my aim is not to convince a side but rather to place the discussion in the proper place.

Even if you make a new thread about it in "General Chit Chat" I think that would be acceptable. The truth is, you've already bludgeoned to death the original thread upon which this started, so in reality it doesn't matter anymore. But if you have any respect for this forum (another logical fallacy!), you'll give it a rest and take it to a new thread or a different forum.

You know as well as I that the subject line of the original post was facetious in claiming that "beer + bbq = healthy". If you couldn't read its facetiousness from the four exclamation points, the internet is not for you.

Again, I am glad for you that being vegetarian makes you happy. I encourage you to make a thread to discuss health and nutrition.

 

[DrunkleJon]

There's no manual that says if you eat X amount of animal protein calories for Y period of time, you will experience Z health effects by age W. Each of us are different.

And therein lies the problem with the generalizations of "A vegetarian diet is bets for you" or any other. There is the additional added bonus that the world can not support the populations of humans of the world using plant based nutrition alone. Not to mention the fact that you are discounting fish as a protein source. Are you going to argue against the fact that those typically pescatarian populations tend to have longer lifespans.

I am not going to argue that red meat can not be detrimental to your health. The problem is blanket statements saying if you quit meat entirely you will live longer/healthier/happier lives. Meats are delicious. It makes me happy to BBQ. If skipping to veganism extends my life by 5 years, I will trade the years for the quality of life spent during the next 50 years.

There are so many variables to health and the formulas are hidden from us. Take for example the recent study backed statements that salt intake is not as much of an issue as was previously believed. Of course if you drink more water, you can consume more salt, but for how many years have nutritionists been saying that you shouldn't consume much salt? We also have arbitrary suggestions like 8 glasses of water a day, there is no saying where that came from.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

When someone only gives merit to the "studies" that agree with their personal opinion, and automatically discredit anything to the contrary, yes, in my eyes their opinion is garbage.

It's quite easy to discredit a sham artist trying to make a buck in the health fad when compared to peer-reviewed studies which are given thousands of hours of critical analysis. (there was only one link posted in rebuttal) Perhaps if you invested a bit of time and read studies on either side, you'd not call it garbage.

 

[chocotaco]

*Nudge* Hey guys. Let's take this discussion to: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/beer-meat-veggies-nutrition-general-471607/

I've even put it in a public forum so HomebrewCraig and other non-supporters can contribute. I really think all of this is a great topic for discussion, but I really don't think it belongs in this thread. I hope you'll all agree with me.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I understand where you are coming from, but you can also choose something else to ease your stress... Fishing, for example.. Or pinochle, or walks in the forest, or raising hamsters. You know, things that are not proven cancer causers. Smoking a pipe may give you some short-term pleasure and relaxation, but what's that surgeon general's message on your pouch of tobacco say?

Actually I grew the tobacco, and I can't recall affixing any such warning

It is hard to get home at the end of the day and go fishing, or hamstering, or even walking, especially in winter.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Actually I grew the tobacco, and I can't recall affixing any such warning

You don't happen to make your own latakia as well, do you?

 

[dfc]

Incorrect. A carnivore's jaws move up and down with minimal sideways motion. The jaw motion of an omnivore is similar. These are tools that are useful for the tasks of shearing, ripping and tearing flesh and swallowing it whole. Omnivores swallow their food whole and/or with simple crushing. Man's, as well as other herbivore's jaws cannot shear, but have good side to side and back to front motion. These are tools that are useful for extensive chewing, crushing and grinding of grains and other high fiber foods. Animal flesh cannot be crushed, ground and chewed with the tools man has without some degenerating process such as cooking or frying.

A carnivore or omnivore's saliva does not contain digestive enzymes. Man's, as well as other herbivore's saliva is alkaline, containing carbohydrate digestive enzymes.

A carnivore's or omnivore's small intestine is three to six times the length of its trunk. This is a tool designed for rapid elimination of food that rots quickly. Man's, as well as other herbivore's small intestines are 10 to 12 times the length of their body, and winds itself back and forth in random directions. This is a tool designed for keeping food in it for long enough periods of time so that all the valuable nutrients and minerals can be extracted from it before it enters the large intestine.

A carnivore's or omnivore's large intestine is relatively short and simple, like a pipe. This passage is also relatively smooth and runs fairly straight so that fatty wastes high in cholesterol can easily slide out before they start to putrefy. Man's, as well as other herbivore's large intestines, or colons, are puckered and pouched, an apparatus that runs in three directions (ascending, traversing and descending), designed to hold wastes that originally were foods high in water content. This is so that the fluids can be extracted from these wastes, now that all the useful nutrients and minerals have been extracted and the long journey through the small intestine is over. Substances high in fat and cholesterol that have been putrefying for hours during their long stay in the small intestine tend to get stuck in the pockets that line the large intestine.

A carnivore's teeth are long, sharp and pointed. These are tools that are useful for the task of piercing into flesh. Omnivore's (meat and plant eaters) teeth are similar to that of carnivores. Man's, as well as other herbivore's teeth are not pointed, but flat edged. These are useful tools for biting, crushing and grinding.

Animal flesh, composed of the most highly complex type of protein that exists, requires vast amounts of uric acid to process. Uric acid is released into the system in amounts necessary to break proteins down into amino acids. Uric acid is a toxic substance responsible for the aging process and must be flushed out and dealt with. That is one of the jobs of the liver. In relative terms, a carnivore's liver is a tool designed with the capacity to eliminate ten times as much uric acid as the liver of man or other plant eater.


By the way, you'd have no need to monitor insulin levels if you ate right. No soda, processed sugars, HFCS, etc.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier. I see now that I was wrong in doing so. No one cares about your propaganda in this thread. You don't eat meat. Good for you (more sarcastic than my earlier "you don't eat meat" comment). Go somewhere else with this trolling though. If you don't eat meat there's no reason to go into a thread in which people are chatting about ways to eat meat. Spew your disapproval elsewhere, but no one gives a **** here. Most of us think you're an ass.

 

[HomebrewCraig]

I didn't come into this thread to be your friend, dfc, so I couldn't care much about what you think of me. And as stated, I came into this thread to ensure no one thinks the thread title is accurate. Nowhere in this thread have I ever said that I disapprove of eating meat, ergo, your red herring fails. If you want to be taken seriously, address the topic, not the presenter. Oh, and perhaps read some of the links would help. But I know you will not, considering that you believe that the links I have provided are "propaganda", which are clinical research papers, university findings, gov't health websites, etc.

 

[ericbw]

Unfortunately, beer in cooking is uncharted territory.

I have seen recipes call for "one bottle of beer"


Or as Emirel says "A bottle of good beer"

WTF?


A stout will be SO much different from a pale ale.

That is like saying "1 tablespoon of a good seasoning"

They always say that on cooking shows. Good olive oil. Good vinegar. Good sea salt. As if we know what that means.

I have a book called (I think) "Cooking with Beer," and it has some great stuff in it. One really good one is fish that uses Belgian wit and cilantro.

I've seen mussels in saison broth on menus, and that sounds like it might be good.

And I've used stout with beef, including stew.

Just some ideas. But I think IPAs and even most PAs are too unbalanced to cook with, so they end up way too unbalanced after cooking.

Didn't mean to re-jack the thread back to cooking with beer. Oops.

 

[ericbw]

I didn't come into this thread to be your friend, dfc, so I couldn't care much about what you think of me. And as stated, I came into this thread to ensure no one thinks the thread title is accurate. Nowhere in this thread have I ever said that I disapprove of eating meat, ergo, your red herring fails. If you want to be taken seriously, address the topic, not the presenter. Oh, and perhaps read some of the links would help. But I know you will not, considering that you believe that the links I have provided are "propaganda", which are clinical research papers, university findings, gov't health websites, etc.

I suspect that the title of the thread was tongue in cheek. Obviously beer isn't going to make an unhealthy meal healthy.

Secondly, as far as carcinogens from roasted food, wouldn't that apply to vegetables, too? Charred carrots would also be carcinogenic?

So maybe it's not just a meat vs veggie issue? So why make it just that?

 

[boydster]

May I suggest that until the troll is willing to eat a piece of BBQ'd steak with a thick black char on the outside and still almost raw on the inside, we stop feeding it? Anyone notice it hasn't appeared in the other thread that was created for it to frolic in?

 

[dkwolf]

I didn't come into this thread to be your friend, dfc, so I couldn't care much about what you think of me. And as stated, I came into this thread to ensure no one thinks the thread title is accurate. Nowhere in this thread have I ever said that I disapprove of eating meat, ergo, your red herring fails. If you want to be taken seriously, address the topic, not the presenter. Oh, and perhaps read some of the links would help. But I know you will not, considering that you believe that the links I have provided are "propaganda", which are clinical research papers, university findings, gov't health websites, etc.

Okay, you've made your point. You believe the thread title is inaccurate. Right or wrong, you've made your point.

Now go away and let us enjoy our delicious, beer-and-carcinogen bbq meat.

 

[boydster]

I have a book called (I think) "Cooking with Beer," and it has some great stuff in it. One really good one is fish that uses Belgian wit and cilantro.

I have this book, too, and I love the fact that it is very specific about what beer he uses for each recipe. There is an entire section on grilling - the beer rub for ribs is particularly delicious, and the hot dogs with hot beer mustard along with homemade kraut are pretty good, too.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Feed a drunk, starve the troll?

 

[cheezydemon3]

You don't happen to make your own latakia as well, do you?

I did not, and in fact, it isn't the greatest variety (I kinda rushed in) but it turned out good! I smoke it 2 times a month or so.

I didn't come into this thread to be your friend, dfc, so I couldn't care much about what you think of me. And as stated, I came into this thread to ensure no one thinks the thread title is accurate. Nowhere in this thread have I ever said that I disapprove of eating meat, ergo, your red herring fails. If you want to be taken seriously, address the topic, not the presenter. Oh, and perhaps read some of the links would help. But I know you will not, considering that you believe that the links I have provided are "propaganda", which are clinical research papers, university findings, gov't health websites, etc.

I thank you for coming in! The thread title was ridiculous (intentionally) to bring in the nay-sayers and fun havers alike.

Now that we have had our say and the discussion has become serious, lets retire to the more appropriate thread.

I suspect that the title of the thread was tongue in cheek. Obviously beer isn't going to make an unhealthy meal healthy.

Secondly, as far as carcinogens from roasted food, wouldn't that apply to vegetables, too? Charred carrots would also be carcinogenic?

So maybe it's not just a meat vs veggie issue? So why make it just that?

THIS^

They always say that on cooking shows. Good olive oil. Good vinegar. Good sea salt. As if we know what that means.

I have a book called (I think) "Cooking with Beer," and it has some great stuff in it. One really good one is fish that uses Belgian wit and cilantro.

I've seen mussels in saison broth on menus, and that sounds like it might be good.

And I've used stout with beef, including stew.

Just some ideas. But I think IPAs and even most PAs are too unbalanced to cook with, so they end up way too unbalanced after cooking.

Didn't mean to re-jack the thread back to cooking with beer. Oops.

No, you are more OT than the rest of us!

I hate to say, but I use miller for brats and kraut, a good stout (NOT guinness) for stew, but that is about it.

I am more likely to cook with white wine (which I seldom drink) than beer.

 

[StonesBally]

Chimayo Blue used to braise sliced beef and caramelized onions is one of my favorite ways of using beer. It's a traditional Belgian dish called Carbonnade a la Flamande. I know it's not grilled though. Chicken not marinated but brined in a mild malty red or golden ale was a revelation the first time I made it. I used to be the chef at a brewpub so I got to experiment with lots of beer and food combinations.

 

[unionrdr]

Reading this while eating a ham sandwich where I dry rubbed the ham & smoked it in the pit for 5 hours. with some ball park mustard of course.

 

[cheezydemon3]

BALL PARK MUSTARD???

Ball park mustard is the BMC of mustards!!!

 

[DrunkleJon]

BALL PARK MUSTARD???

Ball park mustard is the BMC of mustards!!!

Well, actually....

Wouldn't that be plain yeller mustard?

 

[cheezydemon3]

Well, actually....

Wouldn't that be plain yeller mustard?

.....then what is ballpark mustard? The ones I have been to had big jugs of the yellow stuff. good stuff actually, but not grey poupon...

 

[DrunkleJon]

Ballpark and Staduim Mustard are brown mustards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_Mustard

The cheap plain yellow mustard is stuff like you see at most hot dog sunday cook outs and is branded by store brands or something like Frenches.
Not to be confused with French Stewert.

 

[boydster]

Guilty pleasure: I put French's mustard on Ballpark franks (grilled, of course, in keeping with the topic) sometimes. I also have been known to use Heinz ketchup...
/confession

 

[dobe12]

Sure, I can totally believe that a pipe alleviates some stress.. But it doesn't benefit your health.

I'm not saying smoking a pipe is directly healthy, but alleviating stress is DEFINITELY a health benefit. Studies point to stress in a person's life leading to or at least contributing to numerous health issues.