BCS 460 Tell me all about it.

[Ohio-Ed]

What does the BCS require for power?

I am actually getting pretty thrilled to have a computer/web based control so that I can have a rig with no control panel. I do hate panel builds

It comes with a 6vdc wall wort.

I really don't want a duplex outlet in my box so I'm looking for alternatives.

Is your new rig going to be in a fixed position or are you gonna have a receptacle/plug? Have you found / priced power cord & connectors?

I spent over $100 this week on 6/4 SO cord and a receptacle, not counting the plug. This crap adds up quick.

Oh, another advantage of a PC in the area... Timers... no need for kitchen timers any more

 

[The Pol]

It comes with a 6vdc wall wort.

I really don't want a duplex outlet in my box so I'm looking for alternatives.

Is your new rig going to be in a fixed position or are you gonna have a receptacle/plug? Have you found / priced power cord & connectors?

I spent over $100 this week on 6/4 SO cord and a receptacle, not counting the plug. This crap adds up quick.

Oh, another advantage of a PC in the area... Timers... no need for kitchen timers any more

Muy rig will be moveable... it will have a 10' 50A power cord with TWO Male ends. Receptacle on the wall, receptacle on the rig... this way I can have the system on display without a large power cord attached. The 10' cord was $18. (6/4)

So, you are telling me that I need to have a 120VAC outlet wired inside my electronics bay. Well, that isnt a HUge deal.

I have the rigs power supply already since I had my other E-rig already set up here.

 

[RonRock]

Not concerned with 2 male connectors and 220v? Sounds like potential death to me. Especially around liquid.

 

[RonRock]

Ohio-Ed, I'd like to see what you come up with for a power supply. I asked about this a couple weeks ago, got some suggestions as to a simple circuit. I plan to go from my 24v transformer to the 6v for the BCS.

 

[The Pol]

Not concerned with 2 male connectors and 220v? Sounds like potential death to me. Especially around liquid.

Not really worried no, I was supposed to have died from my last build.

The connection to the rig will be from the underside of the sculpture, completely shielded from water. You wont even be able to see the connection when the cord is not connected. VERY clean...

 

[CodeRage]

Not really worried no, I was supposed to have died from my last build.

The connection to the rig will be from the underside of the sculpture, completely shielded from water. You wont even be able to see the connection when the cord is not connected. VERY clean...

That wont save you from one of those moments after a long brew day and want to wrap thing up and unplug the brewery first and accidentally touch a blade on the connector.

Or in your excitement to get started you plug it into the wall fist and whip it around like a regular extension cord and hit your self or some one else.

aesthetic are nice but a cord with 2 male ends is a Darwin award that will eventually happen. Seriously, Get a male receptacle for the brewery or put a male pig tail on it.

 

[jfkriege]

Where did you end up getting the SSRs from?

 

[The Pol]

Where can I find a male 50A 4 prong receptacle for the rig? Never seen one.

Honestly I dont think I am stupid enough to crawl on the floor to unplug my rig BEFORE unplugging from the wall. But to appease the masses... sure, where do I get one?

The plan for the detachable cord isnt to remove it between brew sessions, but to remove it for when the rig is on display in the house.

I see your point, but didnt figure I had an option for a 50A male 4 prong receptacle on the stand itself.

SSRs were Ebay finds

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Not really worried no, I was supposed to have died from my last build.

The connection to the rig will be from the underside of the sculpture, completely shielded from water. You wont even be able to see the connection when the cord is not connected. VERY clean...

Pol, you may have thought this through, but I just feel the need to say the issue is with the cord having 2 male ends. The problem is exposed current if you disconnect the rig before disconnecting the the cord from the wall. When you see the male end of a cord laying on the ground it is a normal assumption that it is safe.

You would be better with a short pigtail coming out of your box if you don't want to go the twist lock / recessed receptacle route.

Enough said on that subject.

I'm thinking about opening the enclosure of my BCS and mounting it inside my box. Then I'd use a panel mount power supply... Ideally, I'd like to have one with 5,6 and 12vdc.

Where did you find a 10' 6/4 cord for $18? I paid $4.50/foot just for the cord with out a plug.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Crap I'm slow.

 

[The Pol]

I can go to almost any hardware store around here and get a 50A range cord that is 6/4 for WAYYYYY less than $4.50 per foot. Yeah, 10' for $18

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I can go to almost any hardware store around here and get a 50A range cord that is 6/4 for WAYYYYY less than $4.50 per foot. Yeah, 10' for $18

Gotcha... I went with SOOW cord. Thought maybe you had an online source.

Are you doing something similar for connecting your elements to your box?

 

[CodeRage]

Where can I find a male 50A 4 prong receptacle for the rig? Never seen one.

Honestly I dont think I am stupid enough to crawl on the floor to unplug my rig BEFORE unplugging from the wall. But to appease the masses... sure, where do I get one?

The plan for the detachable cord isnt to remove it between brew sessions, but to remove it for when the rig is on display in the house.

I see your point, but didnt figure I had an option for a 50A male 4 prong receptacle on the stand itself.

http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=8773

The female counterpart is at the bottom of the page in the related items box. Looks like the whole get up would be 125 bones.

Here is an ebay one. the ground pin is on the outside edge of the receptacle.
What you want to look for is a 50 amp flanged male inlet.

 

[ScubaSteve]

So Pol, how are you getting around a panel? I figure even with the BCS you're going to want a small switchboard for manual override of elements/pumps.....

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Where can I find a male 50A 4 prong receptacle for the rig? Never seen one.

Honestly I dont think I am stupid enough to crawl on the floor to unplug my rig BEFORE unplugging from the wall. But to appease the masses... sure, where do I get one?

The plan for the detachable cord isnt to remove it between brew sessions, but to remove it for when the rig is on display in the house.

I see your point, but didnt figure I had an option for a 50A male 4 prong receptacle on the stand itself.

SSRs were Ebay finds

Take a look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RV-5..._Camper_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4140c79985

There is also a female counterpart available.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...kparms=algo=SI&its=I%2BC&itu=UCI&otn=10&ps=63

 

[Sawdustguy]

Ohio-Ed, I'd like to see what you come up with for a power supply. I asked about this a couple weeks ago, got some suggestions as to a simple circuit. I plan to go from my 24v transformer to the 6v for the BCS.

Ron, you can't just use a transformer. It has to be a DC power supply.

 

[CodeRage]

A live demo of the bcs can be found here
http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=107913&mode=threaded

PID stuff is under the system settings

 

[The Pol]

Gotcha... I went with SOOW cord. Thought maybe you had an online source.

Are you doing something similar for connecting your elements to your box?

Right now, I dont plan to have a "box" persay. I will have an electronics bay where all of the electrical components are attached to thier respective PIDs.

There will really be no box, or control panel, everything would be switched through the BCS and the SSRs. It would not be modular like my last rig, it would be "hard" wired. Basically there will simply be an E-Bay separate from the "wet" side of the rig that will house the electronics and switching mechanisms. No outlets means no plugs and receptacles to take up space, it also means less wiring. Doing all of the pump and element switching with the BCS also means less space, switches and wiring. The BCS will allow the E-Bay to be really clean.

 

[The Pol]

So Pol, how are you getting around a panel? I figure even with the BCS you're going to want a small switchboard for manual override of elements/pumps.....

Really, I am not planning any manual override, except for the possibility of a master switch. Everything else will be virtual control through te BCS.

Even if I have manual switches, I will still have to go into the BCS and select them items on in order to operate them. The only benefit would be that I would be able to force something off without using BCS, but again I dont see the difference between a switch in the rig and a virtual one on the BCS.

I sort of like the idea of a rig with virtually no visible plumbing and no visible panel.

I know people like the busy looking and industrial systems, but I am moving toward something else... hope it works for me. If not, you will all learn a valuable lesson! DO NOT DO AS THE POL DOES

 

[The Pol]

Take a look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RV-5..._Camper_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4140c79985

There is also a female counterpart available.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...kparms=algo=SI&its=I%2BC&itu=UCI&otn=10&ps=63

That looks like a viable solution. Thanks for your help.

 

[The Pol]

http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=8773

The female counterpart is at the bottom of the page in the related items box. Looks like the whole get up would be 125 bones.

Here is an ebay one. the ground pin is on the outside edge of the receptacle.
What you want to look for is a 50 amp flanged male inlet.

Thanks, this helps... very clean

 

[Budzu]

I am not finished building my rig yet, but I have a BCS for it. I have not run it with any hardware, but from running the interface on my computer, I can't wait to put all these awesome features to use. I'm even considering getting a second one to run 2 or 3 10 gallon water cooled/heated fermentation wells.
Alot of good info here is coming up so I will be subscribed
BTW I have a buddy here in our club who built a lovely electric keggle rig. He ran 10/3 to each element, and used a double male end (twistlocs) to connect his relays to his keggle elements (which were mounted with an external gang box). The first time he showed me the rig, he spent 30 minutes explaining to me why that was a BAD idea. Now I just wonder why he hasn't changed it yet...

 

[The Pol]

Apparently NEED NON ZERO CROSS SSRs for the pumps.

Where can I get them? I only see ZERO CROSS

Also, as an alternative... where would I begin to find a small mechanical relay instead of an SSR. NOW this is my sticking point on the control side. Elements are easy, the pumps not so much.

 

[Budzu]

Is it the pump that needs non zero cross or the bcs itself? I am thinking you might be able to drive a 5 amp relay or something with the SSR that you have. I think its hard to find a non-ssr relay with that low of coil voltage.

 

[The Pol]

Okay, NEW question.

For all you BCS users, how are you controlling your pump ON/OFF with it?

SSR?
Mechanical Relay?
Combination?

You have until 8pm to give me a solution to this apparent problem!

 

[RonRock]

Good move. I copied this. May be helpful to those looking for ssr's. I'm sure these are the ones suggested on the BCS site.



This is the first I've heard of "Zero Crossing/Non Zero Crossing SSR's"

I'm planning on Crydom D2425 to switch my March 809's. I searched for spec's after reading this, but could find nothing about Zero Crossing. Is this a spec by some other name? TBH there is a lot of info I don't understand in the spec sheets.

I know we are getting off topic could be moved or start another.



Spec Sheet

http://datasheet.octopart.com/D2425-Crydom-datasheet-2269.pdf

 

[The Pol]

It sayes zero cross all over the spec sheet, I presume they are zero cross.

 

[The Pol]

I emailed the makers of the BCS... I will let you know what they tell me about pump control options.

 

[jfkriege]

Digikey has a bunch of non-zero-crossing SSRs. When you select the 'Output Type' you can select AC or AC,zero cross. They have a wholle lot of options if you are looking.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=1048664

Joshua

 

[CodeRage]

What? I don't understand why zero crossing would affect the operation of an inductive load. Some one mentioned something about opto isolators. I haven't seen an SSR without an opto on the control line. The ones from auber have optos, unless you got them some where else show me the spec sheet.

Zero crossing means the SSR wont close the load side until the AC voltage is at 0V in it's cycle, or has crossed 0V in one direction or the other. Non Zero means it will turn on anywhere in the AC waveform.

I have an extra SSR laying around and would like to test this in the next couple of days.

Here is a link to the spec sheet for the SSRs I use, http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/ssrelays.pdf, the operation section does a good job explaining how SSRs in general work.