Batch sparging water volumes

[doug293cz]

think this will work.

What's the vertical distance from the bottom of the MLT to the port center line, and how much of that will be bridged by this dip-tube? You really don't want more than about 1/8" gap. A beveled tip (so the plane of the opening is parallel to the bottom of the MLT) will hold siphon longer, and get more liquid out of the MLT.

Even if it's not optimal, if it reduces the undrainable volume, it will help your lauter efficiency.

Brew on

 

[olotti]

What's the vertical distance from the bottom of the MLT to the port center line, and how much of that will be bridged by this dip-tube? You really don't want more than about 1/8" gap. A beveled tip (so the plane of the opening is parallel to the bottom of the MLT) will hold siphon longer, and get more liquid out of the MLT.

Even if it's not optimal, if it reduces the undrainable volume, it will help your lauter efficiency.

Brew on

https://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-Steel-Dip-Tube_p_7267.html
or would this be better. I won’t be able to measure that gap until tomm.

 

[doug293cz]

https://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-Steel-Dip-Tube_p_7267.html
or would this be better. I won’t be able to measure that gap until tomm.

The longer one could easily be ground to match the specs in my previous post.

Brew on

 

[IslandLizard]

So I should prob ditch the false bottom eh. When I got this cooler I attempted to use a ss braid by making my own out of those ss water connection lines and pulling the mesh out from inside the line so it was just the ss braid and it caused a stuck mash which I’ve never had before so I can only attribute it to the ss braid. My intent was to switch it over To the braid so I didn’t have anymore dead space And I could hopefully increase my efficiency but just didn’t work that time. I also noticed in a water test that as lizard mentioned once the water line dipped below the nipple where the braid was connected it broke the siphon and still left would be wort behind.

I've seen many of those round cooler builds where they use a braid like you made, or a bazooka tube on or near the bottom. But again, once the wort level drops below the spigot, the siphon action is done. Same for a copper or CPVC manifold.

The issue is really the high-placed bulkhead. That was one of the reasons why I chose to build mine from a rectangular 54qt Coleman Xtreme, with the drain recessed in the bottom. There's no wort left on the bottom after draining.

The other reasons were I find the rectangular shape easier to stir, and the somewhat greater capacity. But that also makes the grain bed shallower, which is a bit of a drawback.

 

[IslandLizard]

https://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-Steel-Dip-Tube_p_7267.html

The longer one could easily be ground to match the specs in my previous post.

Brew on

The drawback with the longer, farther reaching pickup tube as pictured, is that tilting the tun won't help anything to drain the last pint or so.
How about removing the 1/2" barb adapter? Then using a street elbow going straight down from the bulkhead. If necessary, you could screw a short 1/2" NPT nipple in the other end to reach the bottom. If the nipple is too long, saw it off until it hovers 1/16"-1/8" above the bottom. With a slight tilt toward the end of each lauter, that tun should drain completely.

 

[olotti]

https://www.homebrewing.org/Stainless-Steel-Dip-Tube_p_7267.html


The drawback with the longer, farther reaching pickup tube as pictured, is that tilting the tun won't help anything to drain the last pint or so.
How about removing the 1/2" barb adapter? Then using a street elbow going straight down from the bulkhead. If necessary, you could screw a short 1/2" NPT nipple in the other end to reach the bottom. If the nipple is too long, saw it off until it hovers 1/16"-1/8" above the bottom. With a slight tilt toward the end of each lauter, that tun should drain completely.

Makes sense. That’s why I was thinking the shorter one. I was gonna remove the barb and just screw the dip tube into the bulkhead Then the fb would still sit over the top of all that. So I took measurements. The small dip tube is 3” long which would put it almost to the center of the mlt and then it’s 1” from bottom of cooler to the center of the bulkhead. The dip tube has a 1.5” drop so it may be to long in which case i could either just cut or grind it down to leave the desired gap to the bottom of the mlt.

 

[IslandLizard]

Makes sense. That’s why I was thinking the shorter one. I was gonna remove the barb and just screw the dip tube into the bulkhead Then the fb would still sit over the top of all that. So I took measurements. The small dip tube is 3” long which would put it almost to the center of the mlt and then it’s 1” from bottom of cooler to the center of the bulkhead. The dip tube has a 1.5” drop so it may be to long in which case i could either just cut or grind it down to leave the desired gap to the bottom of the mlt.

I'd go for the street elbow with a (short) nipple (or even repurposing your barbed 1/2" adapter) to reach the bottom. That preserves the tilt option too. The barb could sit under an angle where it just touches the bottom on one side. It doesn't have to be straight down.

I use a street elbow on my boil kettle when heating strike water. They almost reach the bottom by itself, a slight tilting toward the end get the rest except for maybe 3 oz, when the siphon breaks.

 

[olotti]

I'd go for the street elbow with a (short) nipple (or even repurposing your barbed 1/2" adapter) to reach the bottom. That preserves the tilt option too. The barb could sit under an angle where it just touches the bottom on one side. It doesn't have to be straight down.

I use a street elbow on my boil kettle when heating strike water. They almost reach the bottom by itself, a slight tilting toward the end get the rest except for maybe 3 oz, when the siphon breaks.

whats wrong with that diptube if it hits that 1/8” clearance. If I leave a few oz so be it. Better than what I’m leaving behind now.
would u mind posting pics of the pcs ur talking about, I’m having a hard time picturing what they look like and how’d they fit together. Thanks.

 

[olotti]

I'd go for the street elbow with a (short) nipple (or even repurposing your barbed 1/2" adapter) to reach the bottom. That preserves the tilt option too. The barb could sit under an angle where it just touches the bottom on one side. It doesn't have to be straight down.

I use a street elbow on my boil kettle when heating strike water. They almost reach the bottom by itself, a slight tilting toward the end get the rest except for maybe 3 oz, when the siphon breaks.

Is this what your talking about?

 

[IslandLizard]

Is this what your talking about?

No, that's a "180 diptube" or "return diptube."

Here's is a 1/2" street elbow:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nptelbowstreet.htm?1=1&CartID=0It's male on one end and female on the other.

It screws directly into your bulkhead, and you can screw that 1/2" barb adapter into the female end, and point it toward the bottom. Even if it remains under an angle, and close to the bottom or touching it, the more and longer it can siphon.

The closer to the bottom and wall that wort inlet is, the less deadspace there is when tilting, and the less wort remains behind.

 

[olotti]

No, that's a "180 diptube" or "return diptube."

Here's is a 1/2" street elbow:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nptelbowstreet.htm?1=1&CartID=0It's male on one end and female on the other.

It screws directly into your bulkhead, and you can screw that 1/2" barb adapter into the female end, and point it toward the bottom. Even if it remains under an angle, and close to the bottom or touching it, the more and longer it can siphon.

The closer to the bottom and wall that wort inlet is, the less deadspace there is when tilting, and the less wort remains behind.

Ahhhhh ok gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Now it makes more sense. So the only benefit to this vs the angled dip tube is that it sits closer to the bulkhead so it gets more of the wort when tipping the tun vs the dip tube that sits closer to the middle of the mlt. I’ll see what I can put together here. Of course I already ordered the dip tube so it would be here Friday before I brew Saturday so guess I’ll put it through a trial run and see what happens. Hopefully between the two options this will solve my issue with the dead space and maybe boost my mash efficiency a little bit.

 

[IslandLizard]

Ahhhhh ok gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Now it makes more sense. So the only benefit to this vs the angled dip tube is that it sits closer to the bulkhead so it gets more of the wort when tipping the tun vs the dip tube that sits closer to the middle of the mlt. I’ll see what I can put together here. Of course I already ordered the dip tube so it would be here Friday before I brew Saturday so guess I’ll put it through a trial run and see what happens. Hopefully between the two options this will solve my issue with the dead space and maybe boost my mash efficiency a little bit.

If the end of that diptube is very close to the bottom it should lauter/siphon most of the deadspace. Try with some water and see how much stays behind. If needed you could extend the diptube with a short piece of hose, to reach closer to the bottom. Cutting the end that's close to the bottom on a slant, parallel with the bottom, it may keep siphon going even longer. Like a suction nozzle.

Anyway, I find street elbows very handy and use them a lot.

 

[olotti]

If the end of that diptube is very close to the bottom it should lauter/siphon most of the deadspace. Try with some water and see how much stays behind. If needed you could extend the diptube with a short piece of hose, to reach closer to the bottom. Cutting the end that's close to the bottom on a slant, parallel with the bottom, it may keep siphon going even longer. Like a suction nozzle.

Anyway, I find street elbows very handy and use them a lot.

Ok I’ll do that. Looks like the street elbow is pretty cheap so I may go buy one just to have on hand. Do u find any clogging issues when trying to filter out the gunkier thicker powdery stuff.

 

[IslandLizard]

Ok I’ll do that. Looks like the street elbow is pretty cheap so I may go buy one just to have on hand. Do u find any clogging issues when trying to filter out the gunkier thicker powdery stuff.

One of the best adapted uses of street elbows is this one:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/cambl.htmThe 1/2" hose slides over the barb, created by machining down the male threads. Then put a worm clamp over the hose connection.
Voila, a high flow elbow/camlock, great for mash tun or kettle exit ports, and such!

I don't use a false bottom, while deadspace is nil. Fine sludge doesn't seem to precipitate/accumulate much, it must remain mixed in with the grist.
I have a CPVC manifold on the bottom. The slits are rather wide, they don't get clogged easily.

 

[olotti]

If the end of that diptube is very close to the bottom it should lauter/siphon most of the deadspace. Try with some water and see how much stays behind. If needed you could extend the diptube with a short piece of hose, to reach closer to the bottom. Cutting the end that's close to the bottom on a slant, parallel with the bottom, it may keep siphon going even longer. Like a suction nozzle.

Anyway, I find street elbows very handy and use them a lot.

so the street elbow won’t work. 3/4” threads make the elbow so big it literally rests tight to the bottom of the cooler. So I got the dip tube today too and once threaded, I have to buy a 3/4” M to 1/2” F for it to thread into and it sits right off the bottom with the opening at a slight angle so this should pick up 95% of the wort in there so I think this may be the ticket, as long as the thicker stuff doesn’t clog it.

 

[IslandLizard]

Are you saying you have a 3/4" bulkhead in your mash tun? Whoa!

 

[olotti]

Are you saying you have a 3/4" bulkhead in your mash tun? Whoa!

Yeah I just built it off the specs of the how to brew book. It’s a 3/8 ball valve but on the backside ie in the cooler it uses a 1/2m to 3/4 female which then connects the 3/4”m barbed fitting.

and I did some water tests with the dip tube and it runs slower but I did notice like u said a sight tilt and it runs a little harder and catches most of the wort. I’m just praying it doesn’t get clogged or take an hour to drain the mlt.

 

[IslandLizard]

and I did some water tests with the dip tube and it runs slower but I did notice like u said a sight tilt and it runs a little harder and catches most of the wort. I’m just praying it doesn’t get clogged or take an hour to drain the mlt.

Speed of flow depends on pressure, gravity in this case, exerted by the column of liquid above it. If you had only 2 inches of water in the tun, for your test, that flow will be much less than when 4 gallons is sitting above it.
At some point the inside diameter of the dip tub will start playing a role, beginning to limit flow, but you'll be enjoying a good flow by that time already.

 

[olotti]

Speed of flow depends on pressure, gravity in this case, exerted by the column of liquid above it. If you had only 2 inches of water in the tun, for your test, that flow will be much less than when 4 gallons is sitting above it.
At some point the inside diameter of the dip tub will start playing a role, beginning to limit flow, but you'll be enjoying a good flow by that time already.

Ok that’s kinda what I was thinking with gravity and pressure of grain and wort. Thanks. bout to drain the tun. Fingers crossed. Hope it goes better than the beer I just attempted to pressure transfer to a keg. I’ll post a thread about that In the kegging section.

 

[JAReeves]

You could also try this: get a bag from Wilser that fits your MT/BK. Most of the crap gets filtered out, you can squeeze the poopies out of the grain (.25 grain mill setting), and then you can do a Denny-1/2 water Strike and 1/2 Batch Sparge. I do about 7 gallons for an average beer. I up it to 8 for a barley wine/imperial. I normally come in with a 1gal boil-off per hour, and then figure it out from there.

To be fair, I also have a carboy that is always fermenting a mixed yeast and sour culture with extra runoff. I call it the **** Show because it's whatever was leftover from either a miscalculation of what's going into the fermenter or what's coming out.

 

[Gusso]

So I should prob ditch the false bottom eh. When I got this cooler I attempted to use a ss braid by making my own out of those ss water connection lines and pulling the mesh out from inside the line so it was just the ss braid and it caused a stuck mash which I’ve never had before so I can only attribute it to the ss braid. My intent was to switch it over To the braid so I didn’t have anymore dead space And I could hopefully increase my efficiency but just didn’t work that time. I also noticed in a water test that as lizard mentioned once the water line dipped below the nipple where the braid was connected it broke the siphon and still left would be wort behind.

Why not get a BIAB (Wilser) and ditch the false bottom?