Batch Sparge

[jbodkin]

Do you always Sparge with 168-170 F. water? ... Sorry for the stupid question ... Just learning about AG and seems like every thing I read says to use this temp range. (Guessing it is to stop the enzyme process)

 

[ol' rummie]

You want your mash temp. to be 168-170F, I heat my H2o up to 185-190F in oreder to raise the mash temp. to 168F.

 

[Bobby_M]

Agreed. 180F is what I'd consider a safe upper limit if you don't use software to tell you otherwise. Sometimes it should be 185F, sometimes 188F but you don't want the equilized grain + sparge water to be higher than 170F after it's stirred together.

 

[nosmatt]

depends on the grain bed temp, how much grain, and the vessel it is in.

i read here ALOT before my first AG. i added 175* water to a 153* bed (13 lbs grain, 5 gallon igloo mlt) and the sparge water after 4 mins was @ 160. too low. added second sparge @ 180, and it ended up @ 165. better, not great.
my efficiency ended up at 62%.
next time i will add 190* water for the first sparge, and probably 178* for the second, but depends on what happens with first.

 

[TBLbrewer]

I use 170 degree sparge water. I'm not concerned about denaturing the enzymes. Since I'm batch sparging, that will happen very quickly when I start to boil my wort.

 

[nosmatt]

170 is your strike temp?

whats the grainbed temp aftera couple minutes of stirring?

 

[YC57]

I just happened to be reading thru while waiting for my first runnings (no mash out) to empty into the brew kettle. I had noticed the same need for adjustment with BeerSmith and the sparge water temp, so...here is my quick and not exact analysis of my current mash and sparge. I am checking the temp results on the first and second batch sparges and will post temp differentials.

Temp of Mash - 9 pound grain bill at 150 deg F
Temp of grain bed after 1st runnings - 140 deg F
Temp of first batch sparge addition - 2.5 gal at 182 deg F
Stir, temp of mash before second runnings - 164 deg F

To be continued...

 

[TBLbrewer]

170 is your strike temp?

whats the grainbed temp aftera couple minutes of stirring?

Nope! That is my Sparge water temp. The op was asking about sparge water temps. I always use Beersmith to figure out my strike water temp. It adjusts for my equipment. Haven't missed a mash in temp yet.

 

[TBLbrewer]

I just happened to be reading thru while waiting for my first runnings (no mash out) to empty into the brew kettle. I had noticed the same need for adjustment with BeerSmith and the sparge water temp, so...here is my quick and not exact analysis of my current mash and sparge. I am checking the temp results on the first and second batch sparges and will post temp differentials.

Temp of Mash - 9 pound grain bill at 150 deg F
Temp of grain bed after 1st runnings - 140 deg F
Temp of first batch sparge addition - 2.5 gal at 182 deg F
Stir, temp of mash before second runnings - 164 deg F

To be continued...

Have you put your equipment information into Beersmith, and then asked it to adjust temperatures for your equipment?

 

[nosmatt]

i could only find that for mash, NOT for sparge. i hit my mash temp 100% the last two times, while sparge has been off both times.
maybe i am missing something, but i looked for quite a while last time before i decided to guess.
green bay rackers only say how much boiling water to add to hit your target based on grainbed temps, i have two burners, and one is 12k btu on my bbq, i have no spare boiling water to add.

 

[McKBrew]

I obviously can't vouch for everyone else's system but in order for my to get the grainbed temp up to just below 170, my batch sparge water has to be at least 190 degrees. My MLT doesn't loose much heat either. I was suprised to figure this out two batches ago, but on that beer and the once after I hit 70% eff, and that is the only thing I can attribute it to.

 

[YC57]

I just happened to be reading thru while waiting for my first runnings (no mash out) to empty into the brew kettle. I had noticed the same need for adjustment with BeerSmith and the sparge water temp, so...here is my quick and not exact analysis of my current mash and sparge. I am checking the temp results on the first and second batch sparges and will post temp differentials.

Temp of Mash - 9 pound grain bill at 150 deg F
Temp of grain bed after 1st runnings - 140 deg F
Temp of first batch sparge addition - 2.5 gal at 182 deg F
Stir, temp of mash before second runnings - 164 deg F

To be continued...

Continue on...

Looking at the first sparge addition, and against common sense, I kept the second sparge addition at the same temperature for a little consistency...

Temp of grain bed aftern 2nd runnings - 154 deg F
Temp of second batch sparge addition - 2.5 gal at 182 deg F
Stir, temp of mash before third runnings - 166-170 deg F depending on probe location
Final grain bed temp after 3rd runnings - 162-164 deg F depending on probe location.

Back after I clean up.

 

[TBLbrewer]

I'm no expert, but your mash temp during sparge doesn't have to be at 170 degrees... You just don't want it above that or you might start extracting tannins. You want to sparge a little warmer then your mash temp to bring up the the temp of the mash as a whole, to make it run a little easier, and possbily increase your efficiency.

 

[Bobby_M]

Possibly increase efficiency? It's a huge factor in my experience. I've had my typical 88% efficiency drop down into the high 70's if I get lazy on the sparge temps. I'm pretty sure sticking to 170F sparge temps never really gets the grainbed up over 160F.

 

[TBLbrewer]

Possibly increase efficiency? It's a huge factor in my experience. I've had my typical 88% efficiency drop down into the high 70's if I get lazy on the sparge temps. I'm pretty sure sticking to 170F sparge temps never really gets the grainbed up over 160F.

Ok, I'm confused. Are you saying your sparge water temp is at 170, or you shoot for the mash temp to be 170 after you add your sparge water? I'd love to have 88% efficiency. I'm sitting about 78%.

 

[McKBrew]

You want the mash temperature to be close to 170, and to get there it's going to take hotter water. I wouldn't be complaining about 78% eff though.

 

[TBLbrewer]

You want the mash temperature to be close to 170, and to get there it's going to take hotter water. I wouldn't be complaining about 78% eff though.

What temperature water do fly spargers use? I thought it was 170 degrees. wouldn't they experience the same rise in mash temp if not less. Sorry don't mean to hijack the thread, I'm just finding myself questioning what I thought was the norm.

 

[YC57]

Have you put your equipment information into Beersmith, and then asked it to adjust temperatures for your equipment?

Yes, however that will only adjust your strike water temp. The brew sheet still lists the sparge water temp at 170 deg F. You can manually change these temps and they will show on your brew sheet, but as of yet I am unaware if the program will adjust for you automatically. Under the "Strike/Infusion Temp" tool, it appears you can get pretty close by entering in your current and desired conditions.

Unfortunately, I found this after I finished my brew session - I have only had BeerSmith for a short time so I am still learning all the tricks of the program.

 

[YC57]

Originally Posted by YC57
I just happened to be reading thru while waiting for my first runnings (no mash out) to empty into the brew kettle. I had noticed the same need for adjustment with BeerSmith and the sparge water temp, so...here is my quick and not exact analysis of my current mash and sparge. I am checking the temp results on the first and second batch sparges and will post temp differentials.

Temp of Mash - 9 pound grain bill at 150 deg F
Temp of grain bed after 1st runnings - 140 deg F
Temp of first batch sparge addition - 2.5 gal at 182 deg F
Stir, temp of mash before second runnings - 164 deg F

To be continued...

Continue on...

Looking at the first sparge addition, and against common sense, I kept the second sparge addition at the same temperature for a little consistency...

Temp of grain bed aftern 2nd runnings - 154 deg F
Temp of second batch sparge addition - 2.5 gal at 182 deg F
Stir, temp of mash before third runnings - 166-170 deg F depending on probe location
Final grain bed temp after 3rd runnings - 162-164 deg F depending on probe location.

Back after I clean up.

So even with these slightly lower temps , BeerSmith is calculating my efficiency at 78.63% - Not too bad! I would definietly love to be in the high 80's as well - not sure how many more points I can gain just with sparge temp adjustment alone, but I'm sure going to try!

Bottom line is...if you want your mash temp to equalize to 168-170 deg F, then yes of course you need to sparge with hotter water. How much/how hot? Not sure there is an easy standard answer. If you really want to be accurate, there seem to be multiple factors to consider and will change with each brew - i.e. initial mash temp, grain bed temp between sparges, size of grain bill, volume of sparge, etc. I guess everyone has their own point of diminishing returns as well (time vs. a few efficiency points).

Interesting stuff...