Batch #3 -- Trillium Fort Point Ale Clone!

[kyoun1e]

So I have one batch under my belt. A White IPA from a kit. Results seem mixed but haven't tasted a fully bottle conditioned beer yet. Batch #2, a Tank 7 clone, is in process.

It's time for batch #3! Keep the pipeline growing.

I've decided to attempt to clone another beer (that I can never get in cans)...Trillium's Fort Point Ale. I've also decided I'm going to stick with extract for now. I still feel that I don't have this down enough to move to all grain. I'd like to nail one of batch 2 or batch 3. If I go zero for 3, maybe I stick to drinking beer but not making it.

With all that said, you can see the image attached that outlines the clone recipe right from a Trillium book! Can't imagine that there is a better source. Note that there is the all grain version vs. the extract version which I am going to tackle.

Of course, I have some questions and would appreciate any input you may have:

1. Steeping instructions call for boiling 1 gallon of water first, then you top off to 5 gallons for the boil. That's a new one. I've only steeped grains or added extract to 2.5 gallons for 5 gallon batches. Assume this is a normal practice. Bigger question is this: I assume I need a bigger kettle than then my 5 gallon. What size would you recommend? Any particular brand? (Wonder if it's time to get a kettle with a temp gauge too).

2. Hop Stand: Instructions say to cool the wort down to 180 F and add hops. I guess this is what hop stand means. What is the benefit of doing a hop add at this time? That's a new one for me.

3. Wort Settle for 30 Minutes: This seems odd. Next instruction is to let the wort settle for 30 minutes BEFORE chilling. This seems at odds with the common instruction of cooling down as quickly as possible to pitching temperature. Make sense?

4. Three yeast options are listed: Wyeast British Ale 1098 Yeast @ 70°, WhiteLaps WLP007 (Dry English Ale), GigaYeast GY054 (Vermont IPA). Any thoughts on which one?

5. Soft Water is recommended: No idea how to make my water soft. I'm not mashing so maybe this doesn't matter? Or should I add gypsum and calcium chloride to my water?

6. Force Carbonation is mentioned for kegging. Not sure how to do that and I'm not kegging. I'll be bottling.

In case you can't read the image, here are the ingredients / instructions. Thanks for any comments in advance.

* 6.6 lb golden liquid malt extract
* 1 lb wheat dried malt extract
* 4 oz dextrine malt
* 4 oz British pale crystal malt 22°L
* 0.25 oz Columbus Hops @ 60 min
* 0.75 oz Columbus Hops @ 10 min
1 tsp irish moss @ 10 min
* 2oz Columbus at hop stand @ 180° for 30’
* Yeast Options: Wyeast British Ale 1098 Yeast @ 70°, WhiteLaps WLP007 (Dry English Ale), GigaYeast GY054 (Vermont IPA)
* Dry hop as krausen begins falling (day 3-4). 4oz Galaxy + 1 oz Columbus dry hop (after 4-5 days)
* ¾ Cup priming sugar

 

[Tarpon87]

Ive never done extract so cant help you with most of it but #2&3 go together, they are part of the same step. You cool the wort to 180, add the hopstand hops and leave them for 30 min. After the 30 min you continue cooling to pitching temp. This is common practice for this style of beer.

 

[kyoun1e]

Ive never done extract so cant help you with most of it but #2&3 go together, they are part of the same step. You cool the wort to 180, add the hopstand hops and leave them for 30 min. After the 30 min you continue cooling to pitching temp. This is common practice for this style of beer.

Great thanks.

What's the benefit? Of hopstand vs. boiling the hops vs. dry hoping?

 

[Rob2010SS]

kyoun1e, I'll answer for you what I can.

1. The steeping part recommends the 1 gallon because if you steep in too much water, you run the risk of pulling out excess tannins in the steeping process. You steep in that low amount of water first, then top off. Here is a link that goes into more detail about that...
http://beersmith.com/blog/2017/02/28/extract-beer-brewing-tip-dont-steep-grains-with-too-much-water/

2&3. The hopstand is going to give you additional hop aroma just like whirlpooling and dry hopping. There are advantages to the hopstand over dry hopping but I can't seem to find that article. Here's an interesting one comparing the two...
http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/29/hop-stand-vs-dry-hop-exbeeriment-results/

6. As far as carbonation, use the link below to figure out your priming solution. I used this calculator when figuring out my priming solution and it worked perfectly.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

Hope that helps. Those are the only one's I feel I can answer you.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Great thanks.

What's the benefit? Of hopstand vs. boiling the hops vs. dry hoping?

To answer this one...

1. Boiling the hops at different times will do different things. Boiling for 60 minutes will add bitterness, boiling for 20-30 will add minor bitterness and more flavor, boiling under the 20 minute mark will add aroma.

2. Hop stand is another method for aroma. <-- May affect flavor too, not sure, never done one. Only going by what I'm reading.

3. Dry hopping is to increase aroma as well.

 

[kyoun1e]

Interesting. I could see how you could keep brewing the same beer over and over again but adjusting the hop variables constantly. That makes sense.

Any ideas on which yeast? It's curious to me that when I look at these recipes there's always several to choose from...why? They more or less the same?

This water thing is starting to bother me. Hard vs. Soft. Purchased a PH meter but from another thread this doesn't seem like enough and I need a town water report. Makes me think until I do that I should stick with distilled water for now.

 

[Tarpon87]

There are slight differences to each yeast, it all comes down to personal preference. So until you use them and can decide which you like best, it wont really matter. A lot of people use the GigaYeast (or another manufactures strain) for this type of beer. I've used it before but I actually prefer 1272 for my NEIPAs, to each his own.

You can probably get a water report online from whoever supplies your water, or call and they should be able to send you one. Use a program like Bru'n Water and input the numbers from your water report. Then make mineral adjustments until you get to the water profile you want. You can do the same with RO water just set the baseline of everything to 0 and the Ph to 7.

 

[kyoun1e]

Ok so I need to call the Water Deptment and possibly send a sample to Ward Labs. Check on that.

Minus this information I'd be curious what you think of this: My town gives frequent "brown water" alerts. There's just a ton of work being done on the roads and every now and then when you run the tap water it's...well...brown.

Understanding that info, any issue? Or is still more info needed via the Water Dept and/or Ward labs?

Thanks

 

[BMWillis]

I'd definitely avoid using your tap water while you're under an alert. General rule of thumb for extract batches I always heard was 'if your water tastes good, its probably okay to brew with'

Since your recipe calls for soft water, you'll still need to look up your municipalities water report (or send a sample to Ward) to see what you have. Soft water is just water that has a low amount of dissolved minerals in it. If you have hard water, only want to get it softer is to dilute with RO, or just use all RO and build your profile from there using Brun Water.

 

[eric19312]

Extract kit you do not need to add any minerals. You would be just fine with distilled water. RO water from a grocery store machine would probably be good choice. The logic is that in order to make extract you first do a mash and then dry it out. LME has about 80% of the water removed, DME has 100% of the water removed. The brewer that made the extract would of used water adjustments intended to reach high mash efficiency. The minerals in the original brewing liquid will not be removed by the drying process so will be part of the extract. If you were brewing an American IPA you might well add some gypsum even to exract brew since they tend to benefit from the additional sulfate in gypsum but for a NEIPA the base minerals in the extract are probably sufficient and you are better off not adding more.

 

[Tarpon87]

Yup completely forgot you were doing extract, you will get the minerals you need from that, just get some RO water and you should be good to go

 

[kyoun1e]

Well, got the 2016 water report. Not sure if this is good or bad.

Metric is PPM:

For regulated substances:

Chlorine 0.75
Chlorite 0.17
Flouride 0.5
Haloacitic acides 8.4
Nitrate 1.3
Perchlorate 1.2
TTHMs 38
Copper 0.12
Lead 4

Across there was a "no" for violation.

There's also secondary substances: Aluminum, Choloride, Mangenese, Sulfate. No violations.

This tell me anything?

 

[BMWillis]

I'd say since you're rocking extract batches right now, I wouldn't stress out too much over water chemistry. If you're going to use your tap water to brew, I'd treat it with Campden tablets and call it good. If you want a little more piece of mind, use RO water.


That being said, if you do want to delve into the wonderful world of water chemistry, download the Bru'n Water spreadsheet. It has really good instructions on how to get the sheet set up for the water you have. You'll need a little more information than what you have from that report though, values for calcium, magnesium, sodium, sulfate, carbonate, biocarbonate, and chloride are all required.