Basic/beginner water profile question

[-Liam-]

I am just peeking around the corner and dipping my toe (pardon the pun) into water profiles. I'm absolutely terrified and daunted by it, but believe that learning some basics early on in my brewing hobby will no doubt bring me better results in future batches, when I decide to play around with it. I just looked at my water profile for Toronto and I see these values -

Calcium 34.7
Chloride 25.9
Sodium 14.2
Sulphate 27.5
Alkalinity 89
PH 7.7

I don't really have any idea what these values will affect, so in a nutshell, what can you tell me from my water profile? (bear in mind that my short term goal is to brew a killer IPA )

 

[clickondan]

Hi Liam, getting those numbers is a great first step, especially if you can trust them (if you're sure they apply to you). If you can get the measurement for bicarbonate (CaCO3) then you'd have the full picture. It's possible that your alkalinity measurement is a bicarb measurement. It would say something like "Alkalinity as CaCO3" if that were the case. I'm sure better folks will pitch in but I'm happy to share some more thoughts if you can get that bicarb number.

 

[-Liam-]

I see on the report - Hardness (as CaC03) 122.
Is this what you mean?


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[clickondan]

Nice. Here's a real quick (probably too quick) series of thoughts for you.

pH 7.7
CaC03 122
Calcium 34
Chloride 26
Sodium 14
Sulphate 27

Those are the numbers that you'll want to work with.

pH is the measurement of how acidic the solution is. Pure water (neutral) is 7 for our purposes here. An ideal mash pH is usually about 5.4. Higher than that, and you'll get some astringent off flavors and lower efficiency, usually not noticeable until maybe about 5.6 and then more pronounced the further you get from there.

CaCO3 is essentially the ability of your solution to resist a change in pH. The higher this number, the more work you'd have to do to change the pH of your solution. 122 is pretty typical and not too bad of a starting point really.

The chloride and sulfate numbers are pretty low (this is good), and the main thing to worry about here is the ratio between the two. It is mainly a flavor thing in terms of the finished beer. This is an oversimplifcation, but if the ratio is about 1:1 (as your starting water already is), this is a balanced profile and won't impact flavor. The more you increase chloride above sulfate, the more malt flavor will be brought out. The more you increase sulfate above chloride, the more pronounced the bitterness from hops (also increases hops flavor perception to a lesser extent).

The sodium number is not as important. You have a good starting point, and if you raise it from there it will also bring out some malty flavors to the forefront.

The additives you'll probalby want to look at using are gypsum (adds calcium and sulfate ions), calcium chloride (self explanatory), lactic acid (directly lowers pH) and maybe canning salt (adds sodium and chloride ions).

I would set up your water profile at Brewers Friend and start messing around with your water volumes and water additions. Essentially, anything you add affects something else. Ex: adding gypsum will increase your calcium and your sulfate and will lower your mash pH a bit. Adding lactic acid will do nothing to pH in very small amounts but once it overcomes your CaCO3 pH buffering capacity, it will dramatically lower your mash pH. You have to work all these additions together until your chemistry matches what you're hoping for.

The most important things are mash pH and the chloride to sulfate ratio. You can easily find a lot of info about what numbers to shoot for based on style.

I would limit your lactic acid additions to no more than 6mL per 5 gallon batch or you'll start to be able to taste it.

Calcium levels between 50-150 will work well for any beer.

I'm sure others will add much better info than this to the conversation.

 

[clickondan]

Should have mentioned, make sure to enter the grain bill at Brewers Friend. For the most part, darker grains have the ability to knock out the buffer and start to lower mash pH. Lighter grains do not have this ability and more work is required to get your mash pH down to the 5.4 zone.

 

[-Liam-]

Wow, thanks for this info! I will read and study what you have written here and hopefully I can start putting this to good use. I'm a little overwhelmed but I'm sure that if I take baby steps I'll start to get the hang of the basics.


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[Yourrealdad]

Dan, can I just say thank you. That was a concise simple way to explain a little bit what to look for. I am in the same boat as Liam and am wrapping my head around this and people have said "our water is great for hoppy beers" but they never said why. Well it looks like it is because I have a 4.5 sulfate reading to a 2.2 chloride reading. Makes sense. Thanks

 

[ajdelange]

Without knowing the rest of the profile I can only observe that with respect to sulfate and chloride such low mineral content would not be considered suited for hoppy beers in the British style but would be good for hoppy beers using noble hops (lagers). The ratio of sulfate to chloride has little or no bearing on this - the less sulfate the better for the noble hopped beers. These would probably be improved with the addition of a bit more chloride. If you like, the ratio of chloride to sulfate should be infinite for these beers yet they are balanced in malt and hops. It's that the low sulfate lets you use lots of hops whose fine bitterness does not get ruined by SO4.

 

[-Liam-]

So what should I be looking for in terms of a basic water profile in order to make a good example of a hoppy American IPA or IIPA?


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[helibrewer]

The profile I use for an APA is:

Ca 140
Na 18
Mg 25
SO4 300
Cl 55
Bicarb 110

This gives an RA of about -20
Using 2-4 ounces of acid malt should eliminate any need to acidify your mash or sparge water.

 

[ajdelange]

So what should I be looking for in terms of a basic water profile in order to make a good example of a hoppy American IPA or IIPA?

Generally speaking the best beers are made with the softest (lowest mineral content) water but some brewers like the effect sulfate has on hops perception. You are in good shape in the sense that you have low relatively low levels of both sulphate and chloride which gives you room to play adjust upwards if you like the effect. The problem you face is an alkalinity level that is high enough that it needs to be dealt with. Assuming that you want to approach this in an orderly fashion probably the best way is to dilute your water 2:1::RO:tap and add a 1/2 - 1 tsp of calcium chloride to each 5 gallons treated. Then brew with this water (add a couple % sauermalz to take care of the grain's alkalinity). The resulting beer will be good but not as good as it can be. Taste it while adding bits of calcium sulfate (gypsum) to see if you think it improves the taste. If it does, then add gypsum to the water next time you brew the beer. If it doesn't, don't. You are calibrating your palate here. Some really like sulfate, some really don't and many (most) are in between. Do the same with calcium chloride.

You cannot expect to hit the sweet spot the first time out. It takes many brews to titrate things to close to the way you like them. Check the Primer at the top of this Topic.

A pH meter will be a big help in tuning the process. We have been talking flavor here but it doesn't matter if you get the sulfate and chloride levels right but blow the pH.

 

[-Liam-]

This is some golden advice I'm receiving and I'm very appreciative of you taking time out to respond. I'm sure I'll have many more novice questions to ask..!
Thanks.


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[-Liam-]

Ok, so just following on from my original question, and again please forgive my lack of knowledge in this area and potential for what may be silly questions. I decided to have a tinker around with EZ water calculator. I've entered my tap water at the top and had a play around with the mineral salt additions. My goal here is to brew a good American IPA. So can you tell me, are my water additions looking like they might be in the right ballpark? I realise that it shows that these minerals + acid malt will keep my PH within range with the malts I've entered, but will they be right for flavour also? Is there a way I could improve on these additions? Are they completely imbalanced? Is there a huge difference to flavour if I dilute with distilled and then calculate my additions? Any help and/or advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[-Liam-]

Anybody?

 

[clickondan]

That profile looks good to me Liam. Nice work.

 

[Yooper]

I'd take out the calcium chloride, as the chloride doesn't need to be anywhere near that high, and lower the calcium is fine as well.

 

[-Liam-]

Does this look better overall?