Barley wine or strong beer

[Dark_Ale]

Just wondering how many of you enjoy barley wines. I just started a dark ale with a OG of 1085. So where do you draw the line between strong beer(alcohol content) and Barley wine. I was talking with the owner of the shop where I get my supplies he was telling me how he was trying to make a double bock, and how it turned into a barley wine. Is there some hocus pocus going on or what? Any way I am thirsting for knowledge....mmmmm this IPA is good. later.........

 

[rightwingnut]

Got a glass of porter with me now...mmmm, mmmm. I don't like strong beer, myself. I like easy drinking beer, stuff that goes down smooth and of which you could drink several at a time. Strong beer, to me, can be savored like a good wine, so on special occasions, I guess I could enjoy a glass. I don't even like an 8% alcohol content...just a bit too much for my liking.

 

[Janx]

Barley wine, like all styles, has certain guidelines that make it what it is. It's nothing like a doppelbock, so I don't really know what your guy was talking about.

A few diffs:

BW - ale
DB - lager
BW - amber colored
DB - black

Both are strong beers, but one is a sweet, malty ale, and the other a dark, strong lager.

Only one way for you to *really* be sure of the difference...you have some homework

Janx

 

[richanne]

The BJCP site appears to be down right now, but Bocks don't have to be black (even hear of a Blonde Bock?). I could see where what your homebrew supply shop guy is saying could happen. He even could have noticed that the alcohol percentage was in the barleywine category and decided to switch out an ale yeast.

We enjoy Belgian beers that typically are in the high alcohol category, along with Dubbel Bock (ours in kind of dark amber in color).

 

[richanne]

OK, found a PDF version of the 2004 BJCP guidelines for beer styles. Here is what they say. I'm comparing category 5C Doppelbock with 19B English Barleywine:

On maltiness:
DB: very stong maltiness
BW: Very rich and strongly malty

On fruitiness:
DB: Moderately low fruity aspect to aroma
BW: May have moderate to strong fruitiness

On color:
DB: Deep gold to dark brown
BW: Rich gold to dark brown

On hop aroma:
DB: Virtually no hop aroma. May have light noble hop aroma.
BW: English hop aroma mild to assertive.

Alcohol percentage:
DB: 7-10%
BW: 8-12%

So you can see that the maltiness and color are not issues, but your homebrew store owner's barleywine may have been a little off on style with regards to the hops. Here's what I'm guessing may have happened: Your guy took a pre-boil gravity reading and realized he got great extraction and that the alcohol percentage was going to be over the top and not to-style for a Doppelbock. He decided to make it into a barleywine, and since he has access to whatever ingredients he needs, he threw in some hops and switched out to an ale yeast. (Yet another argument for the value of hydrometers. Go figure.)

 

[Janx]

Bocks don't have to be black (even hear of a Blonde Bock?).

The question was about doppelbock, but if you know a blonde doppelbock, I'd love to meet her.

All I can say is, I'd know a doppelbock from a barleywine any day of the week. They're very different styles of beer.

And a dubbel is not a "Dubbel Bock", whatever that is, A dubbel is in an entirely different world. Dubbel Bock sounds like something a microbrewery would invent to sell T-shirts. A dubbel is Belgian Trappist style, not at all related to doppelbock, a strong, dark German lager. Different yeast, different flavor, and different brewing style to the point that it is one of the world's great unique art forms.

Honestly, richanne, put down the hydrometer and go taste some of the world's great beers. There is zero similarity between barleywine and doppelbock.

Janx

 

[richanne]

Gee. Same maltiness, similar fruitiness, same color range = "zero similarity"?

Actually, the original question was about what was referred to as a "Double Bock." I did make a typo in the name of our dopplebock, which we call Dubble Bock. That's just our name for our own recipe.

You are reminding me of this guy on another forum who claims to know more about New Belgian Brewing Co.'s beers than the company that brews them.
You know more than Charlie Papazian and J. Palmer and all the homebrew beer book writers about what equipment to use, and now you know more than the BJCP about beer styles.

You were insulting this guy's homebrew shop owner, saying he couldn't have started out with a dopplebock recipe and wound up with a barleywine, when in fact the scenario I have outlined is quite possibly what happened. The only real differences are in the hops and yeast, which are added after most brewers take their first gravity readings. You implied that this homebrew shop owner didn't know what he was doing, and that man's customer may have assumed you were right and he was an idiot, and you would have cost that shop business just because you have to always be showing people up. I take exception to that.

 

[Janx]

I imagine it does make you uncomfortable, richanne, to be a homebrew shop owner of questionable abilities and knowledge, but anyone who makes a barleywine and a doppelbock using the same grain bill shouldn't be handing out advice on the subject. They are different beers in every regard, including grain bill, and you only show your ignorance by asserting otherwise.

And, BTW, my porter has been in the primary a while, richanne. Ya think it'll be at highter risk of infection from sitting on the trub? What a fountain of inventive misinformation you are.

Janx

 

[rightwingnut]

Break it up, you guys, have a homebrew!

 

[Kotzbrocken]

I believe this is the forum's very first flame war. It's always interesting to watch this stuff happen, and quite unfortunate. Both of you should quit this pissing contest and just calm down. Have a homebrew.