Banana "beer" Wine and Aging Issues.

[gitano]

Somewhere between 2002 and 2005, (I don't have my notes with me right now), I made a batch of banana wine/beer. On the recommendation of some friends I entered it in the state fair and came away with an "Honorable Mention". It was good stuff. However, I am a patient person, and decided to let it age for 'a while'. About 6 months after bottling, I got a bottle out and had a swig. Ptooey! I spit it out! It tasted like paint remover smells! Man I was bummed! I got on the internet and did some reading on banana 'beer' and every source I read said,

"DOES NOT AGE. Is consumed immediately following brewing."

Dang!

(On a side note, I keep putting "beer" in quotes because the colloquial term for fermented bananas is "beer", as in the alliterative 'banana beer', but as I understand 'things', fermented fruit is 'wine' and fermented grain is 'beer'. I see it referred to 'wine' most often here, and will continue using that terminology.)

Back on topic, I am one of those people that does not easily throw things away. I thought MAYBE it MIGHT age back to at least 'tolerable'. Well, it's been 8 to 11 years now, and it doesn't taste much better, although MAYBE slightly.

I was recently told by the person at my local home brewing store that just about everything 'wrong' with a batch of wine can be fixed by mixing or aging. But NOT "acetone". "Acetone" is just "not fixable".

Resistant to the end (AKA hard-headed), with respect to 'tossing it', I went through the threads on HBT looking for "acetone" and "banana wine". I found one general point repeated several times that was 'curious', and some interesting comments on "acetone" so I thought I would start this thread to see if I could get some specific answers and/or insight into what happened, and some suggestions on whether or not this stuff is salvageable.

The first 'curious' issue is that I read almost everywhere on HBT that banana wine can easily be - and maybe SHOULD BE - AGED TWO YEARS! This is certainly inconsistent with just about everything I read "on the web". (Meaning at places that discuss banana beer from a cultural perspective or general recipes, etc. as opposed to brewing sites.) Maybe someone can clarify what I'm 'missing' on the subject of aging banana wine.

On the issue of "what to do at this point" about "acetone", I found this interesting comment in post #3 on this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=360551

"Fingernail Polish Remover Smell: The wine is contaminated with ethyl acetate. There are three ways a wine can become thus contaminated. (1) Ethyl alcohol and oxygen can interact to create acetaldehyde, which can react with oxygen to create acetic acid (vinegar), which in turn can react with ethyl alcohol to create ethyl acetate. This pathway can be easily shut down by preventing oxygen exposure with the wine. Since this is impossible, one can at least minimize it to what is absolutely necessary (racking, stirring, testing, bottling). This can be done by topping up adequately, using an inert gas (such as argon -- or even CO2) to sparge the new carboy of oxygen when racking, leaving the bung on the carboy except when absolutely necessary to break the seal, and keeping sulfur dioxide levels sufficiently high that no vacant molecular interstices exist for oxygen to populate. (2) Bacterial contamination of the wine (by acetobacter) can allow the creation of acetic acid, which then combines with ethyl alcohol in the wine to form ethyl acetate. The key to prevention, again, is maintaining an aseptic level of sulfur dioxide to preclude contamination and/or prevent contamination the same way oxygen exposure is prevented. (3) Finally, ethyl acetate contamination can be created by yeast under stress as well as by many bacteria besides acetobacter. In the first instance, maintaining an optimal temperature for the yeast strain employed, using a good mineral water in the must (if water is even used), yeast nutrient for non- grape wines, and a nitrogen source (Yeastex-61 or some other specialized nutrient) for yeast strains requiring ample nitrogen (see Strains of Wine Yeast) will eliminate yeast stress. In the second instance, if you follow the procedures for preventing acetobacter contamination, you will prevent the others as well.

In many cases of ethyl acetate contamination, running a small aquarium pump through an airstone "blows" ethyl acetate away in just a few days. Of course, the wine usually oxidizes during this treatment but can be consumed quickly or converted into a fortified wine in which oxidation is a requirement (such as Sherry or Madeira-type wines). In more severe cases, the ethyl acetate will be blown off only to reveal excessive acetic acid. When this occurs, the wine cannot be saved."

So... what say 'you'?

Does anyone think this stuff is salvageable?

Does anyone have a suggestion for what to do different than 'aerate'? (Besides, "toss it".)

What's the story on "aging" banana wine?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Yooper]

Aging wine really depends on many things- the ABV (alcohol by volume), the ingredients, the yeast strain used, the temperature of fermentation and the temperature during aging just to name a few.

Wine ages very fast at warm temperatures, slowest at cold temperatures, and matures better at a constant temperature rather than up and down.

My banana wine is higher alcohol, and takes a couple of years to be awesome. It's "hot" when young, but aging it a couple of years at 50-55 degrees does wonders.

 

[gitano]

I think heat is an issue. I have in-floor heating, (technically, "radiant panel"), and the 'panels', (every solid 'thing'), are usually at 76-77F. Ironically, it's difficult to get '50-ish' degrees in AK without working at it. I'd like to do things at lower temps, but it's just difficult.

I suppose the question remains "what now"?

Paul

 

[Mismost]

one of my banana wines is coming up on 18 months and it just gotten better....only 2 bottles left now. It was decent to start with, never nasty.

I say just make more. I doubt it's gonna come around after 11 years, in fact, I think it will just get worse. Pull a cork and let it sit open....it might make a good vinegar.

 

[gitano]

I wish it was vinegar!

I think you're right. I think what I will do for an experiment is pour all the bottles in a tub and aerate for 48h or so just to see what effect that has.

Thanks for the reply,
News at ll.

Paul

 

[gitano]

A heartfelt and genuine big thumb's up to the moderator!

It might be worth noting how I got interested in brewing banana wine in the first place, as it has some bearing on the subject of this thread.

Long ago and far away I used to buy "old" bananas for about 10 cents a pound. (That's dirt cheap in Fairbanks, Alaska.) I'd peel 'em, put them in a plastic tub, and freeze them for later use in cooking. It should come as no surprise that I kept other 'things' in the freezer in addition to frozen bananas. One day I was down in the basement (where the freezer was), looking for something other than frozen bananas. I had to move all the tubs of frozen bananas out of the way to get to whatever it was I was looking for, and I put two of the tubs on top of the (upright) freezer. You guessed it, I forgot to put them back in the freezer.

I found those tubs some time later. I don't know if it was weeks or months, but it wasn't years. When I saw them I thought, "Those'll be a 'science project' for sure." I cracked the lid cautiously on the first one and was in for a surprise. Not only was it not a glob of disgusting mold, it was 100% LIQUID! AND it was CLEAR! AND it was slightly effervescent! "Hmm..." I thought. "This is fermented banana. It looks 'good', and it smells 'good'. I'm gonna give a taste." IT WAS DIVINE! I got about a full Grolsch bottle from those two tubs of frozen bananas. I put it in the refrigerator and drank it cold, and it was absolutely delicious! After it was gone, I swore I would make some more 'some day'. Took a while, but the batch I'm talking about in this thread is the first batch I made after the 'discovery'.

Absolutely NOTHING added to the plastic tub but peeled, over-ripe, bananas, Frozen for months, and left on top of an upright freezer at probably about 70F for God only knows how long. REALLY good stuff!

Paul

 

[gitano]

Aerated it for 48 hours. While it changed the taste and 'mellowed' it a bit, it still tasted 'nasty'. Pitched it.

I really liked the "new" wine. I'll make another batch, probably only a gallon or two this time. Make it. Drink it. Make some more.

Paul