Bags inside a steamer basket?

[odie]

well looks like there is about 2 gal dead space below the basket in my set up do to clearance for the heat element and temp probe.

Lets say 2.5 gal total if I include the space between the basket's side and the kettle wall. I'm estimating about 7.5 gal total volume into the kettle if I do a full volume mash (5.5 final/fermenter volume + 1.0 boil off + 1.0 grain absorption) on a 10# grain bill. Do these numbers make sense?

Is 0.1 gal per pound a good estimate of absorption? I recall seeing that number somewhere. And is that valid for BIAB or only traditional mash/lauder tun? I'll assume there would be a "bag squeeze" absorption rate and a "no squeeze" rate? Or if the bag is left to hang & drain for an hour then that would basically be about the same result as a squeeze anyway?

Is 5 gal inside the bag sufficient for BIAB mashing? Say up to a 15# grain bill? Or will I need to recirc or somehow reduce the dead space?

 

[LittleRiver]

... about 2 gal dead space below the basket .... 2.5 gal total if I include the space between the basket's side and the kettle wall. ... will I need to recirc or somehow reduce the dead space?

A simple BIAB rig/process seems to good to be true. But it really does work, and work well.

• heat your full volume of water to strike temp, turn off the heat
• put the bag in the kettle, stir in the grains
• put the lid on and cover the kettle with insulation
• when the mash time is up, hoist the bag and leave it hanging over the kettle
• immediately fire the heat for the boil
• let gravity fully drain the bag into the kettle during the boil

There's no need to have the bag in the kettle while the heat is on. There's no need for a false bottom. There's no need for a basket. There's no need to squeeze the bag. There is no need for recirculation.

Try it. You'll like it.

 

[doug293cz]

well looks like there is about 2 gal dead space below the basket in my set up do to clearance for the heat element and temp probe.

Lets say 2.5 gal total if I include the space between the basket's side and the kettle wall. I'm estimating about 7.5 gal total volume into the kettle if I do a full volume mash (5.5 final/fermenter volume + 1.0 boil off + 1.0 grain absorption) on a 10# grain bill. Do these numbers make sense?

Is 0.1 gal per pound a good estimate of absorption? I recall seeing that number somewhere. And is that valid for BIAB or only traditional mash/lauder tun? I'll assume there would be a "bag squeeze" absorption rate and a "no squeeze" rate? Or if the bag is left to hang & drain for an hour then that would basically be about the same result as a squeeze anyway?

Is 5 gal inside the bag sufficient for BIAB mashing? Say up to a 15# grain bill? Or will I need to recirc or somehow reduce the dead space?

Your numbers are reasonable if you plan to dump everything from the BK into the fermenter. If you plan to leave behind some of the trub, then you need to make a volume allowance for this as well.

0.1 gal/lb is reasonable for a suspended bag. The longer you let the bag drain, the lower it goes (up to a point.) The bag does some self squeezing if suspended, but if the bag is in a basket, this self squeeze effect will be lost, so absorption will be higher. Traditional MLT's usually have a grain absorption rate of 0.12 - `0.125 gal/lb. Aggressive bag squeezing can get you down to 0.05 - 0.06 gal/lb. You need to measure the difference between your strike volume and pre-boil volume to determine the actual grain absorption rate for your system. 0.1 gal/lb is a reasonable place to start if you don't have any actual data.

5 gal is 20 qt, and 15 lb in 20 qt is 1.33 qt/lb. Fly spargers typically mash at about 1.25 qt/lb, so you shouldn't have any issues with lack of water in the basket.

Brew on

 

[Jayjay1976]

Wow @Wiche Pres that sure is a pretty setup, looks like NASA surplus rocket parts re-purposed for making beer!

I used paint strainers in a basket for a dozen or so batches, the basket kept the bag off the electric elements in my bayou 44qt kettle. Then I wanted to brew bigger beers with grain bills larger than the basket/paint strainer would accommodate so I upgraded to an excellent @wilserbrewer bag and picked up a stainless false bottom from brewhardware.com

This excellent combo greatly increased my mashing capacity and the fine mesh bag keeps much of the trub out of my fermenters.

 

[odie]

Wow @Wiche Pres that sure is a pretty setup, looks like NASA surplus rocket parts re-purposed for making beer!

I used paint strainers in a basket for a dozen or so batches, the basket kept the bag off the electric elements in my bayou 44qt kettle. Then I wanted to brew bigger beers with grain bills larger than the basket/paint strainer would accommodate so I upgraded to an excellent @wilserbrewer bag and picked up a stainless false bottom from brewhardware.com

This excellent combo greatly increased my mashing capacity and the fine mesh bag keeps much of the trub out of my fermenters.

With the false bottom I’m assuming you still have the heat element inside the kettle? As it stands right now, my basket will be about 1/2” off the element. Basically it’s a false bottom?

 

[odie]

Your numbers are reasonable if you plan to dump everything from the BK into the fermenter. If you plan to leave behind some of the trub, then you need to make a volume allowance for this as well.

0.1 gal/lb is reasonable for a suspended bag. The longer you let the bag drain, the lower it goes (up to a point.) The bag does some self squeezing if suspended, but if the bag is in a basket, this self squeeze effect will be lost, so absorption will be higher. Traditional MLT's usually have a grain absorption rate of 0.12 - `0.125 gal/lb. Aggressive bag squeezing can get you down to 0.05 - 0.06 gal/lb. You need to measure the difference between your strike volume and pre-boil volume to determine the actual grain absorption rate for your system. 0.1 gal/lb is a reasonable place to start if you don't have any actual data.

5 gal is 20 qt, and 15 lb in 20 qt is 1.33 qt/lb. Fly spargers typically mash at about 1.25 qt/lb, so you shouldn't have any issues with lack of water in the basket.

Brew on

Yeah I can see the self squeezing action when the bag is hung. I wonder if taking a pot lid or other round flat plate and pressing down on the bag while in the basket would have a similar affect? The reason for the basket is the heat element inside the kettle. Keeps the bag safe. I can easily see myself turning on the element and forgetting to yank the bag first.

 

[Jayjay1976]

With the false bottom I’m assuming you still have the heat element inside the kettle? As it stands right now, my basket will be about 1/2” off the element. Basically it’s a false bottom?

Mine actually sits about 1/4" above the elements. I was shooting for more like 1/2" but I made some error in measuring and trimming the legs. I expected to melt or scorch my bag but so far it has worked without any problems. I recirculate sometimes at a very slow rate but I've found that unnecessary with vigorous stirring, even when step mashing.

 

[odie]

well hopefully my Wilserbag shows up in time for this weekend's brewing...thinking porter or stout...will see how it drains in the basket first, then give it a good pressing to see what more comes out. Was planning to leave basket suspended over the kettle for most all of the boil anyway...maybe time and gravity will come close to a good squeeze?

Not sure if my element is one of those ultra low density ones that supposedly doesn't burn stuff...I'm not eager to test that theory..lol

 

[Wiche Pres]

Wow @Wiche Pres that sure is a pretty setup, looks like NASA surplus rocket parts re-purposed for making beer!

I used paint strainers in a basket for a dozen or so batches, the basket kept the bag off the electric elements in my bayou 44qt kettle. Then I wanted to brew bigger beers with grain bills larger than the basket/paint strainer would accommodate so I upgraded to an excellent @wilserbrewer bag and picked up a stainless false bottom from brewhardware.com

This excellent combo greatly increased my mashing capacity and the fine mesh bag keeps much of the trub out of my fermenters.

Thank you Jayjay, I have ss bolts with acorn ss nuts inside the basket to protect the bag. Its about 1/2 inch away from the heating element. I'm working on a trub catch/false bottom right now for my next brewday. I still get some trub. And you are right about the mashing capacity.

 

[doug293cz]

... I wonder if taking a pot lid or other round flat plate and pressing down on the bag while in the basket would have a similar affect? ...

A lot of BIABers do pretty much that. Lot's of ways to squeeze. Or, you can just accept what you get for grain absorption, and not bother squeezing. The most important thing is to have a consistent, and predictable process.

Brew on

 

[Jayjay1976]

Thank you Jayjay, I have ss bolts with acorn ss nuts inside the basket to protect the bag. Its about 1/2 inch away from the heating element. I'm working on a trub catch/false bottom right now for my next brewday. I still get some trub. And you are right about the mashing capacity. View attachment 609611

Hey looks good, I like the way you put legs on the bottom of the basket. acorn nuts are a clever no-snag idea, I hadn't thought of that!!

That being said I highly recommend upgrading to a false bottom and a wilser bag so you can brew bigger beers, a side benefit is that your efficiency will go up a point or two which is nothing to sneeze at. Just consider it! I promise you won't look back. Also, @odie I squeeze the bag between two stainless steel pot lids, seems to get most of the wort out without too much hassle. Gets me another 3-5 bottles of beer which IMHO is totally worth while. I know its sacrilege but bag squeezers unite!!!

 

[Wiche Pres]

Hey looks good, I like the way you put legs on the bottom of the basket. acorn nuts are a clever no-snag idea, I hadn't thought of that!!

That being said I highly recommend upgrading to a false bottom and a wilser bag so you can brew bigger beers, a side benefit is that your efficiency will go up a point or two which is nothing to sneeze at. Just consider it! I promise you won't look back. Also, @odie I squeeze the bag between two stainless steel pot lids, seems to get most of the wort out without too much hassle. Gets me another 3-5 bottles of beer which IMHO is totally worth while. I know its sacrilege but bag squeezers unite!!!

I'll do.

 

[odie]

Thank you Jayjay, I have ss bolts with acorn ss nuts inside the basket to protect the bag. Its about 1/2 inch away from the heating element. I'm working on a trub catch/false bottom right now for my next brewday. I still get some trub. And you are right about the mashing capacity. View attachment 609611

That was my first idea...bolts...still might go that route but carriage bolts upside down and acorns or rounded lock nuts on top

 

[Wiche Pres]

That was my first idea...bolts...still might go that route but carriage bolts upside down and acorns or rounded lock nuts on top

If you go this route you might want to use 4 carriage bolts instead of 3. I tried but it was to "rocky" trying to mash. The basket has 3 recess dimples that keeps the acorn nuts preety flush with the bottom.

 

[blubrewbbq]

If you go this route you might want to use 4 carriage bolts instead of 3. I tried but it was to "rocky" trying to mash. The basket has 3 recess dimples that keeps the acorn nuts preety flush with the bottom.

+1 I'm finishing my set up and this is exactly what I did this weekend. Installed 4 stainless steel bolts upside down with a stainless nut inside the basket and another on the bottom.

Super sturdy and allows for adjusting for the OCD crowd out there.

 

[odie]

I have some SS rounded lock nuts but the standard nuts seem fine. Just hand tight so I can easily remove for clean up. I did notice that the ends of the bolts have kinda a ridge...i smoothed it out on the bench grinder so no chance snagging the bag I’m waiting on

 

[odie]

ran three batches this weekend. Hoist the basket to drain and after about 20 min I place a couple rods under to support it and swap the hoist to the mostly drained bag. Bag hangs for most about half the boil time with an occasional squeeze...if my numbers are right my grain absorption is around .7 but I really need a sight tube and not a tape measure to be sure. With how heavy 15# of wet grain is I’m glad I have the basket, plus I can run the element with the bag in

 

[Kevin M.]

I used to do BIAB using a keggle. I had to use a basket since the top of the keg wasn't open enough to remove the bag. The basket kept it confined to the opening size. Work very well.