Bags inside a steamer basket?

[odie]

Your olive oil barrel kettle is cool, I've never seen one. Where'd you find it?

In Crete, Greece. I was stationed there back in the late 90's...I think I actually did my first all grain stuff there...was getting stuff mailed from St Patrick's of Texas, out of a magazine back when they were small time...

anyway, my smaller kettle from extract/specialty grains wasn't cutting it...I was downtown wandering all the small mom and pop shops and came across this wonderful Inox SS barrel...actually I think it might be Italian made...all the local farmers and families do olive oil...these barrels the crushings sit in and oil separates and they drain it from the spigot (which I really liked, the spigot thing)...well I think that's what the guy was trying to say...it's all Greek to me...

 

[odie]

When I commented about extra work I meant the marble.

well the GF has a ton of scrape marble pieces...I just gotta pick the best pieces and give it a try...I just thought marble cause I have a free source, it's not going to absorb or give off anything, density will remain constant (but irrelevant I think), and will stay put.

as far as my kettle marks, I have none. I just use measurements from the top lip to determine volume, and those will just need to be re-measured once I decide what all, if even anything I need to have in the kettle besides the wort...

but it's sounding like I may have enough mash water inside the basket even with all the dead space below for proper conversion, especially if I recirc a little bit. Which I guess is all that does matter, other than not melting the bag.

 

[odie]

Odie, you seem to be having fun. I call that success, and you haven't even brewed with this rig yet. Well done.

Well lets just say I'm doing my research and trying best to figure out what I need to make BIAB work for my particular kettle. I have no plans to buy a second "dedicated BIAB kettle" (at this time)...I've already modified mine for heater element and thermometer...If I had heard of BIAB before I did the mods I would have placed them a bit differently I think...but I'm stuck working with my current kettle configuration at the moment.

Basically the better I can nail down my first BIAB attempt, the more likely it will come off well...and y'all can claim another convert to the "dark side"...lol....reference to "dark siders" (those who run car tires on motorcycles, to the purists horror) Yes I do that too.

And I still need a bag since...I have to determine my actual bag dimension needed once I figure out the basket depth that I will be able to achieve.

well we are talking beer...so yes, I'm having fun

 

[Wiche Pres]

Well lets just say I'm doing my research and trying best to figure out what I need to make BIAB work for my particular kettle. I have no plans to buy a second "dedicated BIAB kettle" (at this time)...I've already modified mine for heater element and thermometer...If I had heard of BIAB before I did the mods I would have placed them a bit differently I think...but I'm stuck working with my current kettle configuration at the moment.

Basically the better I can nail down my first BIAB attempt, the more likely it will come off well...and y'all can claim another convert to the "dark side"...lol....reference to "dark siders" (those who run car tires on motorcycles, to the purists horror) Yes I do that too.

And I still need a bag since...I have to determine my actual bag dimension needed once I figure out the basket depth that I will be able to achieve.

well we are talking beer...so yes, I'm having fun

Hi there odie, I started brewing about a year ago with extract. Allright beer came out of the kits but was't happy with it. Finally decided to go E- BIAB. Did a lot of home work (reading and gogling) and came out with this ( pictures below). I'm really content with the results. Efficiency is about 85%, brewday cut down to 6hrs. And cleaning is a breeze. All of these was achieved by doing what I thought was more convenient for me. Go for whatever you think it might work , if it don't you learn and try something else.


"Opinions are like buttholes everybody
got one"

Salud !!![emoji6]

 

[RM-MN]

Recirc during the mash should keep temps more consistent throughout the entire kettle and get all the volume through the grain bed. When I pull the basket some additional recirculation I would think help clear the wort. As the grains compact when pulled from the kettle, they become a filter and should clear some haze out...

I think that you are overthinking this. Bring the water to strike temperature, cut the heat, put the bag into the pot of water and stir the grains in. If you take advantage of the strength of BIAB and get the grains milled fine there won't be a need to keep the temperature so consistent because the conversion of starch to sugars happens too fast for that to help. If you start with full volume you may gain a bit by setting the bag that is in the basket above the kettle and recirculate some of the wort through it. I doubt it will help enough to be worth the effort. Any haze from the grains draining into the kettle will settle out in the fermenter when the beer is done.

 

[odie]

What’s that on top the basket? Sparge arm?

 

[Wiche Pres]

What’s that on top the basket? Sparge arm?

Yes.

 

[Wiche Pres]

What’s that on top the basket? Sparge arm?

Just testing with water.

 

[Wiche Pres]

Hi there odie, I started brewing about a year ago with extract. Allright beer came out of the kits but was't happy with it. Finally decided to go E- BIAB. Did a lot of home work (reading and gogling) and came out with this ( pictures below). I'm really content with the results. Efficiency is about 85%, brewday cut down to 6hrs. And cleaning is a breeze. All of these was achieved by doing what I thought was more convenient for me. Go for whatever you think it might work , if it don't you learn and try something else.


"Opinions are like buttholes everybody
got one"

Salud !!![emoji6]View attachment 609208View attachment 609210View attachment 609211

Do all the pictures look sideways or is it just me?

 

[odie]

Makes me wanna say “danger will robinson”

 

[odie]

well looks like there is about 2 gal dead space below the basket in my set up do to clearance for the heat element and temp probe.

Lets say 2.5 gal total if I include the space between the basket's side and the kettle wall. I'm estimating about 7.5 gal total volume into the kettle if I do a full volume mash (5.5 final/fermenter volume + 1.0 boil off + 1.0 grain absorption) on a 10# grain bill. Do these numbers make sense?

Is 0.1 gal per pound a good estimate of absorption? I recall seeing that number somewhere. And is that valid for BIAB or only traditional mash/lauder tun? I'll assume there would be a "bag squeeze" absorption rate and a "no squeeze" rate? Or if the bag is left to hang & drain for an hour then that would basically be about the same result as a squeeze anyway?

Is 5 gal inside the bag sufficient for BIAB mashing? Say up to a 15# grain bill? Or will I need to recirc or somehow reduce the dead space?

 

[LittleRiver]

... about 2 gal dead space below the basket .... 2.5 gal total if I include the space between the basket's side and the kettle wall. ... will I need to recirc or somehow reduce the dead space?

A simple BIAB rig/process seems to good to be true. But it really does work, and work well.

• heat your full volume of water to strike temp, turn off the heat
• put the bag in the kettle, stir in the grains
• put the lid on and cover the kettle with insulation
• when the mash time is up, hoist the bag and leave it hanging over the kettle
• immediately fire the heat for the boil
• let gravity fully drain the bag into the kettle during the boil

There's no need to have the bag in the kettle while the heat is on. There's no need for a false bottom. There's no need for a basket. There's no need to squeeze the bag. There is no need for recirculation.

Try it. You'll like it.

 

[doug293cz]

well looks like there is about 2 gal dead space below the basket in my set up do to clearance for the heat element and temp probe.

Lets say 2.5 gal total if I include the space between the basket's side and the kettle wall. I'm estimating about 7.5 gal total volume into the kettle if I do a full volume mash (5.5 final/fermenter volume + 1.0 boil off + 1.0 grain absorption) on a 10# grain bill. Do these numbers make sense?

Is 0.1 gal per pound a good estimate of absorption? I recall seeing that number somewhere. And is that valid for BIAB or only traditional mash/lauder tun? I'll assume there would be a "bag squeeze" absorption rate and a "no squeeze" rate? Or if the bag is left to hang & drain for an hour then that would basically be about the same result as a squeeze anyway?

Is 5 gal inside the bag sufficient for BIAB mashing? Say up to a 15# grain bill? Or will I need to recirc or somehow reduce the dead space?

Your numbers are reasonable if you plan to dump everything from the BK into the fermenter. If you plan to leave behind some of the trub, then you need to make a volume allowance for this as well.

0.1 gal/lb is reasonable for a suspended bag. The longer you let the bag drain, the lower it goes (up to a point.) The bag does some self squeezing if suspended, but if the bag is in a basket, this self squeeze effect will be lost, so absorption will be higher. Traditional MLT's usually have a grain absorption rate of 0.12 - `0.125 gal/lb. Aggressive bag squeezing can get you down to 0.05 - 0.06 gal/lb. You need to measure the difference between your strike volume and pre-boil volume to determine the actual grain absorption rate for your system. 0.1 gal/lb is a reasonable place to start if you don't have any actual data.

5 gal is 20 qt, and 15 lb in 20 qt is 1.33 qt/lb. Fly spargers typically mash at about 1.25 qt/lb, so you shouldn't have any issues with lack of water in the basket.

Brew on

 

[Jayjay1976]

Wow @Wiche Pres that sure is a pretty setup, looks like NASA surplus rocket parts re-purposed for making beer!

I used paint strainers in a basket for a dozen or so batches, the basket kept the bag off the electric elements in my bayou 44qt kettle. Then I wanted to brew bigger beers with grain bills larger than the basket/paint strainer would accommodate so I upgraded to an excellent @wilserbrewer bag and picked up a stainless false bottom from brewhardware.com

This excellent combo greatly increased my mashing capacity and the fine mesh bag keeps much of the trub out of my fermenters.

 

[odie]

Wow @Wiche Pres that sure is a pretty setup, looks like NASA surplus rocket parts re-purposed for making beer!

I used paint strainers in a basket for a dozen or so batches, the basket kept the bag off the electric elements in my bayou 44qt kettle. Then I wanted to brew bigger beers with grain bills larger than the basket/paint strainer would accommodate so I upgraded to an excellent @wilserbrewer bag and picked up a stainless false bottom from brewhardware.com

This excellent combo greatly increased my mashing capacity and the fine mesh bag keeps much of the trub out of my fermenters.

With the false bottom I’m assuming you still have the heat element inside the kettle? As it stands right now, my basket will be about 1/2” off the element. Basically it’s a false bottom?

 

[odie]

Your numbers are reasonable if you plan to dump everything from the BK into the fermenter. If you plan to leave behind some of the trub, then you need to make a volume allowance for this as well.

0.1 gal/lb is reasonable for a suspended bag. The longer you let the bag drain, the lower it goes (up to a point.) The bag does some self squeezing if suspended, but if the bag is in a basket, this self squeeze effect will be lost, so absorption will be higher. Traditional MLT's usually have a grain absorption rate of 0.12 - `0.125 gal/lb. Aggressive bag squeezing can get you down to 0.05 - 0.06 gal/lb. You need to measure the difference between your strike volume and pre-boil volume to determine the actual grain absorption rate for your system. 0.1 gal/lb is a reasonable place to start if you don't have any actual data.

5 gal is 20 qt, and 15 lb in 20 qt is 1.33 qt/lb. Fly spargers typically mash at about 1.25 qt/lb, so you shouldn't have any issues with lack of water in the basket.

Brew on

Yeah I can see the self squeezing action when the bag is hung. I wonder if taking a pot lid or other round flat plate and pressing down on the bag while in the basket would have a similar affect? The reason for the basket is the heat element inside the kettle. Keeps the bag safe. I can easily see myself turning on the element and forgetting to yank the bag first.

 

[Jayjay1976]

With the false bottom I’m assuming you still have the heat element inside the kettle? As it stands right now, my basket will be about 1/2” off the element. Basically it’s a false bottom?

Mine actually sits about 1/4" above the elements. I was shooting for more like 1/2" but I made some error in measuring and trimming the legs. I expected to melt or scorch my bag but so far it has worked without any problems. I recirculate sometimes at a very slow rate but I've found that unnecessary with vigorous stirring, even when step mashing.

 

[odie]

well hopefully my Wilserbag shows up in time for this weekend's brewing...thinking porter or stout...will see how it drains in the basket first, then give it a good pressing to see what more comes out. Was planning to leave basket suspended over the kettle for most all of the boil anyway...maybe time and gravity will come close to a good squeeze?

Not sure if my element is one of those ultra low density ones that supposedly doesn't burn stuff...I'm not eager to test that theory..lol

 

[Wiche Pres]

Wow @Wiche Pres that sure is a pretty setup, looks like NASA surplus rocket parts re-purposed for making beer!

I used paint strainers in a basket for a dozen or so batches, the basket kept the bag off the electric elements in my bayou 44qt kettle. Then I wanted to brew bigger beers with grain bills larger than the basket/paint strainer would accommodate so I upgraded to an excellent @wilserbrewer bag and picked up a stainless false bottom from brewhardware.com

This excellent combo greatly increased my mashing capacity and the fine mesh bag keeps much of the trub out of my fermenters.

Thank you Jayjay, I have ss bolts with acorn ss nuts inside the basket to protect the bag. Its about 1/2 inch away from the heating element. I'm working on a trub catch/false bottom right now for my next brewday. I still get some trub. And you are right about the mashing capacity.

 

[doug293cz]

... I wonder if taking a pot lid or other round flat plate and pressing down on the bag while in the basket would have a similar affect? ...

A lot of BIABers do pretty much that. Lot's of ways to squeeze. Or, you can just accept what you get for grain absorption, and not bother squeezing. The most important thing is to have a consistent, and predictable process.

Brew on

 

[Jayjay1976]

Thank you Jayjay, I have ss bolts with acorn ss nuts inside the basket to protect the bag. Its about 1/2 inch away from the heating element. I'm working on a trub catch/false bottom right now for my next brewday. I still get some trub. And you are right about the mashing capacity. View attachment 609611

Hey looks good, I like the way you put legs on the bottom of the basket. acorn nuts are a clever no-snag idea, I hadn't thought of that!!

That being said I highly recommend upgrading to a false bottom and a wilser bag so you can brew bigger beers, a side benefit is that your efficiency will go up a point or two which is nothing to sneeze at. Just consider it! I promise you won't look back. Also, @odie I squeeze the bag between two stainless steel pot lids, seems to get most of the wort out without too much hassle. Gets me another 3-5 bottles of beer which IMHO is totally worth while. I know its sacrilege but bag squeezers unite!!!

 

[Wiche Pres]

Hey looks good, I like the way you put legs on the bottom of the basket. acorn nuts are a clever no-snag idea, I hadn't thought of that!!

That being said I highly recommend upgrading to a false bottom and a wilser bag so you can brew bigger beers, a side benefit is that your efficiency will go up a point or two which is nothing to sneeze at. Just consider it! I promise you won't look back. Also, @odie I squeeze the bag between two stainless steel pot lids, seems to get most of the wort out without too much hassle. Gets me another 3-5 bottles of beer which IMHO is totally worth while. I know its sacrilege but bag squeezers unite!!!

I'll do.

 

[odie]

Thank you Jayjay, I have ss bolts with acorn ss nuts inside the basket to protect the bag. Its about 1/2 inch away from the heating element. I'm working on a trub catch/false bottom right now for my next brewday. I still get some trub. And you are right about the mashing capacity. View attachment 609611

That was my first idea...bolts...still might go that route but carriage bolts upside down and acorns or rounded lock nuts on top

 

[Wiche Pres]

That was my first idea...bolts...still might go that route but carriage bolts upside down and acorns or rounded lock nuts on top

If you go this route you might want to use 4 carriage bolts instead of 3. I tried but it was to "rocky" trying to mash. The basket has 3 recess dimples that keeps the acorn nuts preety flush with the bottom.

 

[blubrewbbq]

If you go this route you might want to use 4 carriage bolts instead of 3. I tried but it was to "rocky" trying to mash. The basket has 3 recess dimples that keeps the acorn nuts preety flush with the bottom.

+1 I'm finishing my set up and this is exactly what I did this weekend. Installed 4 stainless steel bolts upside down with a stainless nut inside the basket and another on the bottom.

Super sturdy and allows for adjusting for the OCD crowd out there.

 

[odie]

I have some SS rounded lock nuts but the standard nuts seem fine. Just hand tight so I can easily remove for clean up. I did notice that the ends of the bolts have kinda a ridge...i smoothed it out on the bench grinder so no chance snagging the bag I’m waiting on

 

[odie]

ran three batches this weekend. Hoist the basket to drain and after about 20 min I place a couple rods under to support it and swap the hoist to the mostly drained bag. Bag hangs for most about half the boil time with an occasional squeeze...if my numbers are right my grain absorption is around .7 but I really need a sight tube and not a tape measure to be sure. With how heavy 15# of wet grain is I’m glad I have the basket, plus I can run the element with the bag in

 

[Kevin M.]

I used to do BIAB using a keggle. I had to use a basket since the top of the keg wasn't open enough to remove the bag. The basket kept it confined to the opening size. Work very well.