Bad reaction from Cider

[wargallow]

Been following this forum for over a 2 years now. Making cider in gallon and 5 gallon batches for the same amount of time. I've finally settled on an Irish Ale Yeast as my favorite this far.

But I ran into something odd with the last three 5-gallon batches. I've reused the Irish Ale yeast for the third time, after washing as I learned from this forum, and the strangest thing has happened.

Two out of the three batches so far have me violently ill. I will drink a bottle, then about 3 hours later I yak it up. The whole 3 hours I begin feeling worse and worse in the stomach. After yakking up the cider I feel just fine.

So, not being one to waste cider, I tried stove pasteurizing two sets of bottles, thinking maybe a bacteria of sorts or an odd yeast? Well, I've only tested half a bottle each, but felt sick each time. Not expelling violently, but queasy.

In addition, there is a strong "corn chip" flavor, which I've actually had before, so it may be unrelated.

The first batch I added 2 cups of white sugar, so raised to about 7% in the end.


Second batch was straight UV pasteurized juice from a local orchard.

Any thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[b-boy]

Did you use campden tablets? Some people have issues with them.

 

[wargallow]

No. Both of the first two batches were pasteurized juice. One from Trader Joes and one from an Orchard. My thought is to let them age for a few months (which I've hardly ever done, I usually get impatient and drink it after a month or less).

My concern is there may be some minor toxin that is now present, and no amount of heating will fix it.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[b-boy]

I'd toss them and get some new yeast. No point in taking a chance on getting yourself really sick.

 

[Magnus314]

Did you use store bought juice? I've had problems with store bought Chinese (I checked) juice giving me and others - friends and family - stomach aches or worse...

I don't know a work around, but I've abandoned walmart and other store brand juices for those reasons.

[EDIT] Ok, too much cider myself this evening... if you got it from a nearby orchard it's not chinese juice.

 

[podz]

Be very afraid of the mutants!

 

[Jacob_Marley]

Sounds like quite the mystery.
Not likely the yeast.
If your procedures have been identical over previous batches, it would seem that chemical contamination would not be likely.
If your health has not changed ... ie. you are not suddenly sensitive to store bought cider or beer etc ... no recently developed sensitivities ... no other health issues ... haven't been on a 6-day bender and attending some combination of dormatory progressives (parties) and/or trashcan parties, blah blah blah ... that would seem to leave it to something in the green cider to begin with.

Have you had a chance to try some of the raw cider you used in the ferment? ... that would help rule in or out the source.

The 3 hour delay you noted would be seen in salmonella poisoning, however you'd likely be sick as a dog for the rest of the day, or days, after that too. Also, salmonella and E.coli are "usually" not a problem in hard cider as they generally don't survive due to the alcohol and pH.

With salmonella and E.coli, diarrhea would be a noteworthy presenting symptom as it would be with a parasite like cryptosporidium. Things like cryptosporidium are fairly uncommon and are primarily from animal contamination. Possible, but unlikely.

You could call the supplier and ask whether there have been any other reports of illness. Also call the health department that has jurisdiction over the locale where you bought the cider and see if there have been any other reports of sickness due to cider.

All the above items would be killed by boiling. Your pasteurization process may very well have not been sufficient to do the job. It does not take many residual microbes to make you sick.
Actually, properly performed UV pasteurization should have done it too ... but whether it was done correctly is anyone's guess.

You could try hard-boiling 12 oz of cider for 5 minutes or so and then seeing if you have the same queasy reaction.

In the end, if it looks like it is some sort of issue with the cider specifically, you might consider dumping it and thoroughly sanitizing all your equipment.

 

[fuelish]

Have you tried having someone else drink it and see if they get sick???? Just a wicked thought...

 

[wargallow]

I have considered letting someone else try it, but I'm not that unkind, yet.

I may try ultrapastuerizing some bottles and trying small samples. For now, I'll use a new Ale yeast and bottled juice for my next batch just to sanity check everything.




Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew