Backyard Brew Shed / Bar

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Steven Sinclair

Steven Sinclair

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Yeah. All good ideas, guyz. Guess I just have to embrace "bending" the rules to make this work. Thanx again for all the suggestions!

:bigmug:
 

Deadalus

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I'd probably go the build it to their permitting rules and alter the electrical and sink afterwards route myself, even the exhaust. Those are easy removals in my opinion.

However, I can maybe think of one or two possibilities that could be within the rules.

1. You may be able to run a 240v RV line to a box located outside. Like an outdoor plug, basically an RV post like a campground. The service to the post is 240v but I think interior wise the RV splits the two legs of the line. I am not completely sure as I have a travel trailer which is only 30amps. The big rigs are different. Then you could hop an extension cord in some fashion to your panel.. Consider doing that when you run the power for the building. In other words, is a 240v outdoor plug permissible?

You could run an extension cord from the house itself but that would be unsightly.

2. You could go with the outdoor sink station I mentioned, move it behind the building, perhaps with its own kiosk type roof. Run short water lines to an outdoor faucet, then hoses. A sink can indirectly drain into a floor drain, maybe an outdoor drain is technically allowed.

These are really overbearing rules though. WTF!? I'd really appreciate a 2-3 compartment sink to wash my garden produce.
 
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Steven Sinclair

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These are really overbearing rules though. WTF!? I'd really appreciate a 2-3 compartment sink to wash my garden produce.
Yes, especially since I had already purchased the 3 basin stainless steel sink...and 36 inch stainless steel exhaust hood...and toilet and sink for the half bath...
Jeez.
Well, got a good deal on 'em so I guess it's not that bad, but not being able to use them really bites!
 
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shoengine

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Getting around the 240v thing is easy. Just takes two extra conductors you won't use after inspection. I'd stick a single sub-24in sink and swap it out after. The drain is a tough one. I like the idea presented earlier about having two separate pours.
 

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This is being over complicated. Build it basic as an outdoor lawn and garden shed. Once all the dust and suspicion settles make it whatever you want. If you have a permit pulled then you know an inspector is likely to stick his nose into things to see what is going on. At some point they are going to move on and whatever you want to do will go unnoticed. I keep thinking I'm going to drill a secret well so I can stop paying for water for my brewery. I know for sure ( 99.9999999999999999 percent )no one is ever coming to look at my back garage.
 

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I have a close friend who works in permitting. Whenever I ask him what I can legally do/build on my property he always replies the same - "You can do whatever the f*$k you want to until the neighbors complain. Or you want to sell your house".

Build it to code and leave a way to retro fit it later.

This is what he tells actual customers.

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shoengine

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When I did my 70ish K kitchen remodel, I got that permitted. When I added some tandem breakers, resurfaced the floor, added a drain and started brewing in the garage, I did not permit any of that because it doesn't affect my resale value.

And if my garage burns down, that just makes room for a better garage!
 
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I've been in your shoes. A while back I got the green light for a workshop (20x22)! The zoning and neighbors made the process painful. I couldn't have a garage door because you could only have 24 linear feet of garage doors and we had an 18 footer upfront??!! I had a budget garage Co build the shell totally permitted with inspector close out with a full header. Over time I've added the 100A 240V branch, insulation, drywall, utility sink (supply is RV hose from house sigot to sigot on shop, works great year round), grey waste drain to gravel pad, instant HW heater, shopstyle electric overhead heater, 10x14 awning, cable/internet with plans for a 4 panel (2') bifold door under that header out to the gravel pad/awning area. It's evolving from workshop when we remodeled kitchen/bathrooms to combo workshop/brewery with the future taproom/brewery. Time is the key!
 

Phischy

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The big issue is your neighbors, have you spoken to them? People get really upset, esp if you have an HOA. Seems that you simply say you're building for your hobby (soap making/tie dye), make sure it looks really nice. If it's not ghetto then you'll be ok, and it doesn't sound like it will be.

Electricity can be retro fitted later. Your sink issue, just make sure you have a wet wall between where you want your 3 basin and where the bathroom is, this way you can open the wall and will have direct access to H/C and drain. Really not much of a problem. Run a 20A 11V out for all your lights/outlets so it'll pass inspection, then after inspection, run your 240V and any extra 110V you need to a wall mounted sub panel, then run all your electrical through conduit outside the wall. Unfortunately, this isn't the pretty/fully finished version (rattle can paint the conduit so it looks interesting), however, when you go to sell the home, you can kill the extra circuits, remove everything proud of the walls and be to code. Then patch the walls, and the same goes for the 3 basin sink.

The floor drain is a problem and may be something you have to give up. Which totally sucks, but if that's the cost of getting it done, that's the way to do it.

Depending on your neighbors, the AC units for both the building and the cold room may be a problem. If they see/hear it that may cause you a headache, a mini-split will keep the profile lower but is more expensive. Same with the exhaust fan, you can add later.

I'd say the biggest thing is to know the inspection schedule. And lastly, your property taxing agency will want a piece of this too. So find out when they will come out to value it or what that process is before you start adding improvements inside and out.
 

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I built a 10 x 20 outbuilding about 15 years ago for a wood shop. Stick framing on a poured concrete slab. No running water but I did run a 60A feeder to a subpanel in the shed. Nice to have 240V.

Be careful with location, make sure it doesn't overlap any drainage or utility easements. Some communities have height restrictions for outbuildings (mine limits to 15' above average terrain).

Hard plumbing for sink and toilet means sewer connections. If you decide to forego the those, you can always run a garden hose for cooling water and rent a porta-potty for events. If you use a hose, you could run the gray water into a barrel outside and use it later for watering your garden. A sink can be set up outside, connected to a hose. I have one next to our garden bench we use, except in winter. It's connected to the hose bib with a length of garden hose. Fugly as sin, but it works.

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Like others said, pull the proper permits. Not just in case a neighbor rats you out, but also in case of a fire or storm damage. Insurance may refuse coverage if it wasn't permitted. Having no permits may put a cloud over the property's title should you ever sell it. And check with neighbors. Better to grease the rails now, than to get nuisance complaints from them later. The "easier to get forgiveness than permission" doesn't work here.

Contact your homeowner's insurance, make sure the building is added to your policy.

What at first seems like a straightforward project ends up having lots of moving parts. Sounds like a fun project--good luck!
 
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Steven Sinclair

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Unfortunately, no. The local municipality has worded their building codes perfectly in order to prevent this sort of thing from happening if one is to be "above board" in the process. Don't understand how they can allow some things that seem to me to be absolutely ridiculous, but others that are completely reasonable, they shun. At this point, my only two options are to either move out of town, where their precious building codes don't apply or seek a commercial space elsewhere, which will result in a considerable reduction to my retirement accounts...and the latter is not going to happen!
 

superiorsat

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Ok so by now the wife is probably also getting frustrated. What about an addition to the back of house. Same size if not bigger if you can swing it. You could still have a lift up type window/door to a covered outside bar. Keeping the out door entertaining idea going. It would make all electric and plumbing easier and probably not subject to a variance board. I spend a tone of time in mine brewing beer and other processes also just drinking beer and watching movies or music videos. The wife just calls me now and doesn't even both to come out in person. Just think how much better it will be for your relationship without this distance. 😂
Change the landscape plan to something that complements the new brew pub jutout off the back of the house and plant a special area for the formerly granted not to happen old brew pub location. Either way good luck and don't give up. If you have kids and a pool it could double as a concessions stand/ adult beverage stand in the summer.
 
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Steven Sinclair

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Yeah, sadly, with the way the house is laid out on the property, there's just no way to add an addition.

😭
 
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