attenuation

[Merlinus]

Not sure where you got those numbers, I plugged in your batch size, date of pack, etc. The beer at OG of 1.087 at 2.5 gallons requires 148B cells. Your pack date of 5/12/14 is only 6.7% viable leaving you with 6.7B cells. If you have a stir plate and can make a 1L starter you will produce 154B cells. If you do not have a stir plate and can only shake you will need a multi-step starter.

Again, here is the site: http://www.yeastcalc.co/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator

you got 148b cells because you selected ale, but my beer is a high gravity ale. and i dont have a stir plate

 

[duboman]

Got it, without a stir plate you will need to do multi steps so plug in the numbers for each step and select the shake method to determine how many steps you need. Start with a 1.5L volume and go from there or as mentioned before buy fresh yeast

 

[flars]

177-199 billions depending on the original gravity

but look what they say on their website:

Activator™ Product Information and Usage

Activator™ packages are designed for direct inoculation of 5 gallons of standard* wort. Activator™ packages contain live yeast cells in a liquid slurry. This yeast slurry is packaged in an optimum condition for storage, while maintaining the ability for rapid and complete fermentation.

Activator™ packages include a sterile liquid nutrient pouch that, when “smacked”, releases its contents into the yeast slurry and “activates” the package. The available nutrients initiate the culture’s metabolism which in turn generates CO2 and causes swelling of the package. This process will reduce lag times by preparing the yeast for a healthy fermentation prior to inoculation. Activation also serves as a viability test of the culture. Expansion of the package is an indicator of healthy (viable and vital) yeast. Although beneficial, cultures do not need to be activated prior to inoculation.

Usage

The Activator™ package contains a minimum of 100 billion cells in a yeast slurry.. The Activator™ is designed to directly inoculate 5 gallons of standard strength ale wort (1.034-1.060 SG) with professional pitching rates. For lagers, we recommend inoculating the wort at warm temperatures (68-70°F/ 20-21°C), waiting for signs of fermentation, and then adjusting to the desired temperature. Alternatively, for pitching into cold conditions (34-58°F/ 1-14°C) or higher gravity wort, we recommend increasing this pitching rate. This can be achieved by pitching additional Activator™ packages or by making a starter culture. Please see the Pitch Rate section for additional information.

Full swelling of Activator™ packages is not required for their use. The contents of Activator™ packages may be direct-pitched without prior activation. Our smack pack technology is intended to be a tool for your use in determining viability, and in initiating metabolism for faster starts to fermentation.

Best if Used by: This package is best when used within 6 months of the manufacturer’s date when stored between 34-40°F (1-4°C). Older yeast or yeast that has been exposed to higher or lower temperatures may take longer to become active or swell.

Do not use the Wyeast site for yeast that is more than one day old. What they say in the site is only for fresh yeast and for a very low OG beer. Use the Yeastcalc site or Brewers Friend site to determine pitch rate and starter size.

 

[Merlinus]

i will be brewing around 12th October (im not home) will my yeast still be alive ? it is in fridge now (it is produced on 12th May)

 

[duboman]

i will be brewing around 12th October (im not home) will my yeast still be alive ? it is in fridge now (it is produced on 12th May)

Yes your yeast will be alive but with even less viability by then so the need for a starter or fresh yeast will be even more important.

Honestly if you do not have a stir plate or the knowledge to make a quality starter you should simply get 2 packs of the freshest yeast you can or refer back to the yeast calculator I mentioned and verify pitch rate and go from there. Best of luck!

 

[Merlinus]

Yes your yeast will be alive but with even less viability by then so the need for a starter or fresh yeast will be even more important.

Honestly if you do not have a stir plate or the knowledge to make a quality starter you should simply get 2 packs of the freshest yeast you can or refer back to the yeast calculator I mentioned and verify pitch rate and go from there. Best of luck!

i hope, because if i enter for example at the date: 1st of May instead 12th, it says 0% viability.

so what should i do with my old yeast ? i will try to make the starter. but i dont understand one thing: if i do a 2 step starter. first i start with 2 liters, and in step 2 (in the link you gave me) at volume i add 4 liters, this means i add 2 more liters of "wort" or i add 4 more (in total 6 liters) ? and when i add it at second step, i boil again the dme with water , right ?

thanks !

 

[duboman]

You make the first starter and allow it to ferment, 12-24 hrs, then chill in the fridge 12-24 hrs, decant the wort. In a separate pot you make the next step, chill and add to the first and repeat the process for however many steps you need

 

[Merlinus]

You make the first starter and allow it to ferment, 12-24 hrs, then chill in the fridge 12-24 hrs, decant the wort. In a separate pot you make the next step, chill and add to the first and repeat the process for however many steps you need

ok, thank you !!! and if i make 2 beers in the same week (i plan to make the dubbel and the tripel), can i make 1 bigger starter for both, or i need to make 2 separate starters ? i have 2 packs of same yeast (wyeast 1762, produced on same date)

 

[duboman]

You can make enough starter for both beers, split the final yeast count and pitch for both beers, yes. Just store the second pitch in the fridge until the second beer is ready for it

 

[Merlinus]

in this case i double all the numbers ?

wort batch volume: 19 liters instead of 9.5 -> Yeast Cells Needed [billions] 387
initial count: 200 (i have 2 packs)
volumes of each step: 3 liters instead of 1.5 step 1 & 2 and 1 liter step3 -> 405 b yeast cells

but the problem is that in the calculator you gave me , the Viability is going low every day, until im home it would be 0%

i attach 2 photos of how was in the morning, and how is now:

 

[Merlinus]

You can make enough starter for both beers, split the final yeast count and pitch for both beers, yes. Just store the second pitch in the fridge until the second beer is ready for it

just posted above. let me know. thanks

 

[duboman]

Not sure what you're asking? If you have time to build up the cell count then do all the steps but IMO the first step should be the smaller as the yeast is already stressed and then go larger. If you don't have the time just get new fresh yeast, the longer you wait the more steps you'll need

 

[flars]

just posted above. let me know. thanks

Try out this calculator. You can fill in the production date and choose the pitch rate that you want to use.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

More information below the calculator on the same page.

 

[Merlinus]

thanks. but i was wondering if i can make 1 starter for 2 beers, each one 2.5 gallons (total 5 gallons), i have 2 packs of yeast. OG: 1072 and 1087

if i make 1 starter, and in the final i split it in 2, and pour half in one beer and half in the other beer, its ok ?

 

[Merlinus]

Try out this calculator. You can fill in the production date and choose the pitch rate that you want to use.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

More information below the calculator on the same page.

thanks. this calculator gives me other datas than http://www.yeastcalc.co/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator

 

[flars]

thanks. but i was wondering if i can make 1 starter for 2 beers, each one 2.5 gallons (total 5 gallons), i have 2 packs of yeast. OG: 1072 and 1087

if i make 1 starter, and in the final i split it in 2, and pour half in one beer and half in the other beer, its ok ?

Yes, you can split the yeast cells propagated between two worts. It is the number of cells going into each wort that counts, not how it was achieved.

 

[Merlinus]

i will build my own stir plate. but what method is more accurate ? c white or braukaiser ? because its a big difference between them . according to braukaiser i could make it in 1 step and with c white in 2 steps (using a stir plate)

without i would need 3 steps.

 

[flars]

I haven't run into any problems using braukaisers' formula.

 

[Merlinus]

so if im going to use a stir plate, and make a 3 litters starter (1040 OG), using 2 packs of wyeast that are produced on 12th May and 1/2 tsp. of yeast nutrient, ahd ferment it for 24 hours, i will be ok ? will i be able to obtain an attenuation of at least 85% (for 2 beers of 9.5 liters each, and around 1080 OG) thx

 

[flars]

so if im going to use a stir plate, and make a 3 litters starter (1040 OG), using 2 packs of wyeast that are produced on 12th May and 1/2 tsp. of yeast nutrient, ahd ferment it for 24 hours, i will be ok ? will i be able to obtain an attenuation of at least 85% (for 2 beers of 9.5 liters each, and around 1080 OG) thx

these are numbers I put in BF calculator
OG 1.080 average
Pro Brewer 1.25
2 packs
5/12/14
target pitch 457 B
3 liters Braukaiser
end cell count 445 B

Your starter will be good. The 1.087 beer will get just over half the starter and the 1.072 just under half.
Chill decant to 1 liter for adequate liquid to swirl the yeast into and pour just over half for the high gravity beer, if done first, or just under half for the lower gravity beer, if done first.

You will have a margin of error with the calculations at the 1.25 Pro Brewer pitch rate.

 

[Merlinus]

these are numbers I put in BF calculator
OG 1.080 average
Pro Brewer 1.25
2 packs
5/12/14
target pitch 457 B
3 liters Braukaiser
end cell count 445 B

Your starter will be good. The 1.087 beer will get just over half the starter and the 1.072 just under half.
Chill decant to 1 liter for adequate liquid to swirl the yeast into and pour just over half for the high gravity beer, if done first, or just under half for the lower gravity beer, if done first.

You will have a margin of error with the calculations at the 1.25 Pro Brewer pitch rate.

ok. thank you so much, and to the everyone who answered to my questions.

in 7-8 days i will brew it, until there i will still be ok with 3 liters starter ? anyway i will keep you posted how the beers will go.

also in what should i make the starter ? i was thinking at a big water bottle of 5 liters, adding a airlock to the cap. but it is plastic, its ok to pour the hot wort in it ? and how can i sanitize it ? or it is better to use a big glass jar ? i was thinking using Chemipro Oxi and 80 degrees alchool for sanitizing all the tools (including the bottle).

thanks again everyone !

 

[Merlinus]

Hello, unfortunately i couldn't find a Erlenmeyer glass larger than 2000 ml, only with an order and the time would be 2-3 weeks. What happens if i make only 2 liters of starter ? Or can i use something else ?

 

[flars]

Hello, unfortunately i couldn't find a Erlenmeyer glass larger than 2000 ml, only with an order and the time would be 2-3 weeks. What happens if i make only 2 liters of starter ? Or can i use something else ?

Look at doing a two step starter, 2 liters each, with the BF calculator. You may need Fermcap, or similar product, to keep the krausen from over flowing the flask. I haven't used this yeast, so I don't know how the large, if any, the krausen is for the yeast.

You could also use a container other than the flask. This is what I use for large starters.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/new-yeast-starter-container-61619.html

 

[Merlinus]

ok thanks. i think i will get the 2000 ml Erlenmeyer and will do the starters separately 2 liters for triple and 1.5 liters for the dubbel, im affraid doing it in a normal jar or a plastic jar because of infection, i will also buy PBW for sanitation. Tomorrow or in 2 days i will try to do the first starter.

 

[Merlinus]

Hello. I ordered a 3000 ml Erlenmeyer glass, tomorrow i will get it, meanwhile a friend did a Stir Plate for me, and i tested it with a big jar with 3 liters of water and flour (to emulate the yeast).

Is it ok ? is it stirring well ? Inside the bar i have a metallic bar (i will attach a photo) is it ok to be in contact with the yeast ? (its not inox), and its making a lot of noise, what can i do (maybe in the Erlenmeyer won't make that much noise) ?

Movie: http://www.escapismmusique.ro/IMG_2305.MOV

 

[flars]

Hello. I ordered a 3000 ml Erlenmeyer glass, tomorrow i will get it, meanwhile a friend did a Stir Plate for me, and i tested it with a big jar with 3 liters of water and flour (to emulate the yeast).

Is it ok ? is it stirring well ? Inside the bar i have a metallic bar (i will attach a photo) is it ok to be in contact with the yeast ? (its not inox), and its making a lot of noise, what can i do (maybe in the Erlenmeyer won't make that much noise) ?

Your stir plate and stir bar combination creates more than enough vortex to aerate a starter.
The stir bar, not being coated with plastic, will create some noise as it wobbles on the pivot ring. Not being coated will not be detrimental to the yeast at all.
You mentioned purchasing PBW. PBW is a great cleaner. You will still need a good sanitizer. I use Starsan. It is easy to use, quick to sanitize, and it is a no rinse sanitizer.
Do some Google searching on PBW. With some metals, as in pots, contact time longer than 24 hours could cause some pitting.
PBW also does a good job on removing labels from beer bottles.

 

[Merlinus]

I smacked my yeast packs, after 2 hours the packs didnt swell ! What this means ?

 

[flars]

It may take more than 2 hours for the packs to swell after coming to room temperature unless they are very old. What is the production the on the packs?

 

[Merlinus]

It may take more than 2 hours for the packs to swell after coming to room temperature unless they are very old. What is the production the on the packs?

12th May

 

[flars]

Okay, you had posted that before, I forgot. Brewers Friend now says 0% viability. BF is very conservative though. People have made successful starters with older yeast.