Asco Red Hat Valves

[kladue]

The valves on Ebay have the "B" option which is the pilot shutoff valve which can be used to adjust pilot flame, looks like you are in luck and dont have to add a needle valve in the pilot line. You will need to fire the pilot lights when you turn on propane to the system unless you install shutoff valves upstream of the safety valves, or remember to turn pilot valve on side of safety valve off.

 

[korndog]

The valves on Ebay have the "B" option which is the pilot shutoff valve which can be used to adjust pilot flame, looks like you are in luck and dont have to add a needle valve in the pilot line. You will need to fire the pilot lights when you turn on propane to the system unless you install shutoff valves upstream of the safety valves, or remember to turn pilot valve on side of safety valve off.

Ok, cool. I guess the screw is the B option then. I was looking for a knob of some kind. I suppose these fire the pilot and the burner simultaneously when the button is pressed, but that's no big deal. For 15 bucks, who's complaining. Great find. Thanks.

 

[MNBugeater]

I suspect the 8210g15's I have won't work in my application after all. Neither would the 8210g37 (stainless). They might work in a propane setup with 5 PSI or higher pressure. They require a 5 PSI differential and I'm supplying roughly .25 PSI of natural gas. I can bump that up but not over 2 PSI as that is the max that the gas company supplies to my meter. And if I do that, I have to have another regulator between my brew stand and the house to drop the pressure back down to something between .25 and .5 PSI.

The 8040g22 (0 to 2 PSI) or 8215g20 (0 to 50 PSI) are rated for fuel gas and are most likely the best choices.

Ok now you have me confused...just as i thought i had this down.

Lonnie used the 8210g37 (stainless) in his design and lists it on his parts list. You mentioned in an earlier post that the 8110g15 you bought are identical in function but differ in material. Brass vs. Stainless.

Then above you in your follow up post you say they WONT work in the brutus design becuase they require 5psi. But Lonnie's Brutus plans say he runs .4 PSI through the gas beam. How do those valves work then if they require 5 PSI? I was already to buy the 8210g15 (brass) for $52 per and you popped my balloon. Did i miss something? Can you help me out here ? Thanks.

MNBugeater

 

[korndog]

Ok now you have me confused...just as i thought i had this down.
Lonnie used the 8210g37 (stainless) in his design and lists it on his parts list. You mentioned in an earlier post that the 8110g15 you bought are identical in function but differ in material. Brass vs. Stainless.
Then above you in your follow up post you say they WONT work in the brutus design becuase they require 5psi. But Lonnie's Brutus plans say he runs .4 PSI through the gas beam. How do those valves work then if they require 5 PSI? I was already to buy the 8210g15 (brass) for $52 per and you popped my balloon. Did i miss something? Can you help me out here ? Thanks.
MNBugeater

You raise a good point. After a bit of research, I bought the 8210G075 valves. They are listed for fuel gas at 0-50 psi. I'm not really sure why the G037's would work since they are rate for 5 psi minimum, but apparently Lonnie Mac has had no issues.

Since you haven't bought your valves......

If I were starting over, I think I would scrap the Asco's altogether, and go for real gas valves and possibly spark ignition, with all the safety benefits associated with them. My brew club's brewery has such a setup. Combination valve and ignition module to a controller. Works great, it's wind proof and safe. Check Kladue's posts in this thread for more info. I also just got this from the member who built our club system.

 

[korndog]

Kladue
What do you think about scrapping the Asco's and Baso's for these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/HONEYWELL-VR820...ZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

 

[kladue]

This model of Honeywell valve is a standing pilot valve like the Baso valve, but is internally regulated to deliver 3.5" WC outlet pressure. That might be a bit to low for a propane application which normally runs 11-13"WC pressure.

 

[korndog]

This model of Honeywell valve is a standing pilot valve like the Baso valve, but is internally regulated to deliver 3.5" WC outlet pressure. That might be a bit to low for a propane application which normally runs 11-13"WC pressure.

Ok thanks.

 

[korndog]

Going to buy the nipples and fittings for the manifold today. I just want to make sure there isn't any volume issues using 3/8 line for some of the runs on the main branch.

Thanks
KD

 

[kladue]

For as short of piping runs as you will have they should work, sometimes it is easier to find 1/2" parts than 3/8" parts.

 

[korndog]

For as short of piping runs as you will have they should work, sometimes it is easier to find 1/2" parts than 3/8" parts.

Ok, I just have to get to 3/8 for the Baso valves.

 

[HarvInSTL]

Ok, I just have to get to 3/8 for the Baso valves.

Why is that? I thought you are using the 8210G075's?

They should be 1/2" pipe size and 5/8" orifice size.

I'm considering getting the 8210G075's and hopefully they are they right choice.

I was considering getting the STC valves but so far no one has responded to my post so I'll just plan on the 8210G075's unless you have a reason not to.

I'd love to go with gas valves & spark ignition but so far I'm lost on what to get.

More reading is in order since all I need to finish up the Brutus 10 clone is my gas valves and ignition system.

 

[korndog]

Why is that? I thought you are using the 8210G075's?

They should be 1/2" pipe size and 5/8" orifice size.

I'm considering getting the 8210G075's and hopefully they are they right choice.

I was considering getting the STC valves but so far no one has responded to my post so I'll just plan on the 8210G075's unless you have a reason not to.

I'd love to go with gas valves & spark ignition but so far I'm lost on what to get.

More reading is in order since all I need to finish up the Brutus 10 clone is my gas valves and ignition system.

Hi Harv
My Baso's are pilot safety valves I bought on Ebay, They are 3/8". You are correct that the G075's are 1/2" which is what I have; that's why I need to reduce. You might want to consider adding them to your setup if you go standing pilot.

There is lots of good information from Kladue in this thread as to what to order for a spark ignition system. You need a gas valve, ignition module, pilot burner/sensor, and power source. The models that will work are elsewhere in the thread.

 

[kladue]

HarvInSTL,
The STC valve model you want should be the 2W160-500 series as it has a lower minimum operating pressure than the ASCO model and same NBR seals. If you want to go the electric ignition route you can find the direct spark ignition modules on Ebay along with pilot burner/sensors to match, combined spark and flame sensors are easier to work with.

 

[MNBugeater]

Can someone explain to me why normally closed valves are the proper application in the setup with the LOVE TS controllers in the Brutus 10 design?

I understand that the valve is closed out of the box so to speak until it is charged and then the solenoid is lifted allowing the gas to flow to the burner.

But wouldnt the natural or 'normal' state need to be open so gas can ignite the burner and close when the temperature probe reaches the set temperature on the LOVE? This way when the solenoid is charged it gets closed, hence a normally open valve would be needed.

I know all the models of valves mentioned in this thread from ASCO or STC are all normally closed valves, im just trying to understand this all so when i assemble it, i know i get the operation of the design.

Thanks to korndog and kladue, i now undertand the standing pilot control and the associated safety valve. Im proud to say that i will be implementing these safety features. Now i just want to make sure i understand the main gas valve and how it interacts with the LOVE TS Switch.

I know this isnt rocket science and were just brewin' beer...but its gas man, and im making sure i GET it before i assemble my new toy. Thanks all.

MNBugeater

 

[korndog]

Can someone explain to me why normally closed valves are the proper application in the setup with the LOVE TS controllers in the Brutus 10 design?

I understand that the valve is closed out of the box so to speak until it is charged and then the solenoid is lifted allowing the gas to flow to the burner.

But wouldnt the natural or 'normal' state need to be open so gas can ignite the burner and close when the temperature probe reaches the set temperature on the LOVE? This way when the solenoid is charged it gets closed, hence a normally open valve would be needed.

I know all the models of valves mentioned in this thread from ASCO or STC are all normally closed valves, im just trying to understand this all so when i assemble it, i know i get the operation of the design.

Thanks to korndog and kladue, i now undertand the standing pilot control and the associated safety valve. Im proud to say that i will be implementing these safety features. Now i just want to make sure i understand the main gas valve and how it interacts with the LOVE TS Switch.

I know this isnt rocket science and were just brewin' beer...but its gas man, and im making sure i GET it before i assemble my new toy. Thanks all.

MNBugeater

The Love "controller" is really just a glorified On/Off switch. If you were doing it manually, you would look at your thermometer and flip a switch ON to fire the burners when you dip below your set point, and flip it off when you were back at temp or done mashing. I suppose you could make N.O. valves work, but it would be a hassle and possibly dangerous.

 

[MNBugeater]

Yeah, I get that the LOVE is just an on/off switch. But for example, when i start my brew day and i want to fire up the HLT to start heating water to say 170 for example...

With the valve being normally CLOSED, how does it get open to light the burner? Are you saying that if the temperature is LOWER than the setting on the LOVE, it opens?

 

[korndog]

Yeah, I get that the LOVE is just an on/off switch. But for example, when i start my brew day and i want to fire up the HLT to start heating water to say 170 for example...

With the valve being normally CLOSED, how does it get open to light the burner? Are you saying that if the temperature is LOWER than the setting on the LOVE, it opens?

Yes. You can set them up either way.

Heating: To choose Heating Control - Set d0=Ht
(The output is activated when TS1 [temperature of
ambient probe] is less than or equal to Set Point.)
TS1<=SP. It then disconnects when TS1>=SP-r0.

Cooling: To choose Cooling Control - Set d0=Co
(The output is activated when TS1>=SP+r0.) The
display will switch off when TS1<=Set.

I guess if you had N.O. valves, you could use the cooling program option.

 

[MNBugeater]

Thats the part i didnt know, thanks. The LOVE can be setup to send power/signal for both cooling and heating. Got it.

Well, i have all but the main gas valves ordered, still waiting for a decent price on ASCO 8210G75s. I meet with my welder today. Hell have my stand done in a week or so. Then its assembly time.

Anyone have any strong opinions on the Hurricane burners versus the 20-jet burners Lonnie uses? I have 2 Hurricane burners and id prefer to reuse those in my stand. Although i have never had a great jet flame with them, the carbs are minimally effective at best. They work, just not great and they seem to be very susceptible to wind.

 

[Lonnie Mac]

You should be able to use the Hurricane burners just fine in your stand. I use the 10 jet low pressure burners and LOVE them... I have seen several with the 20 jet though; but I have seen many Brutus'ess with every burner I could imagine now too... I would say that it is up to you and what you are happy with!

 

[HarvInSTL]

HarvInSTL,
The STC valve model you want should be the 2W160-500 series as it has a lower minimum operating pressure than the ASCO model and same NBR seals. If you want to go the electric ignition route you can find the direct spark ignition modules on Ebay along with pilot burner/sensors to match, combined spark and flame sensors are easier to work with.

Thanks! Since I'm using LP do I want NBR seals or should I consider the Viton or Teflon seals?

Can someone explain to me why normally closed valves are the proper application in the setup with the LOVE TS controllers in the Brutus 10 design?

I understand that the valve is closed out of the box so to speak until it is charged and then the solenoid is lifted allowing the gas to flow to the burner.

But wouldnt the natural or 'normal' state need to be open so gas can ignite the burner and close when the temperature probe reaches the set temperature on the LOVE? This way when the solenoid is charged it gets closed, hence a normally open valve would be needed.

I know all the models of valves mentioned in this thread from ASCO or STC are all normally closed valves, im just trying to understand this all so when i assemble it, i know i get the operation of the design.

Thanks to korndog and kladue, i now undertand the standing pilot control and the associated safety valve. Im proud to say that i will be implementing these safety features. Now i just want to make sure i understand the main gas valve and how it interacts with the LOVE TS Switch.

I know this isnt rocket science and were just brewin' beer...but its gas man, and im making sure i GET it before i assemble my new toy. Thanks all.

MNBugeater

I was under the impression that with N.O. valves they are open until energized. So what happens when you lose power? Do they stay open, or if closed will they open?

 

[korndog]

You should be able to use the Hurricane burners just fine in your stand. I use the 10 jet low pressure burners and LOVE them... I have seen several with the 20 jet though; but I have seen many Brutus'ess with every burner I could imagine now too... I would say that it is up to you and what you are happy with!

Thanks for stopping by Lonnie Mac. Lots of Brutus builds going on around here!
Your input is always appreciated.

KD

 

[Lonnie Mac]

NC valves will stay closed in power loss... This is one of the main reasons we don't want NO valves with a standing pilot, in power loss, every burner would fire... No big deal while attended, just cause a bit of running around and WTF's...

 

[Lonnie Mac]

Thanks for stopping by Lonnie Mac. Lots of Brutus builds going on around here!
Your input is always appreciated.

KD

Ah thanks! Yes, I finally realized that I could change my own screen name... So hence fourth, Colplink had to go!

 

[kladue]

NBR seals on solenoid valves operating at 1/2 PSI will work fine, if you were looking at 20 PSI and locate the valves where temperatures would be over 180 Deg then Viton would be the choice. Remember when you are routing the piping and valves the radiant heat from the burners could cause problems, would recommend a heat shield if valves are exposed to radiant heat from burners.

 

[MNBugeater]

You should be able to use the Hurricane burners just fine in your stand. I use the 10 jet low pressure burners and LOVE them... I have seen several with the 20 jet though; but I have seen many Brutus'ess with every burner I could imagine now too... I would say that it is up to you and what you are happy with!

Great news, and thanks Lonnie. We have spoken a few times via email.

So im going to use my 2 Hurricanes for the MT and HLT and just purchase one 20 jet burner for the brew kettle. The jet burners require a .4 low pressure regulator such as this one.

I have this one[item #7335] that i use for the Hurricanes. I imagine i wont need to but a new regulator, if im going to supply LP via a gas manifold or beam?

 

[Lonnie Mac]

So my guess is that the high pressure regulator will not work with the low pressure burners. Maybe someone has tried. Seems that you will need to have two regulators for your rig, the one you have for your hurricane burners and a low pressure regulator (in your first link) for the low pressure burner. This may require a bit of bottle swapping unless you have two bottles. You just may be limited with one bottle as to what you will be able to do at any one time...

 

[MNBugeater]

Sounds like i'm better off just buying a third Hurricane burner and wont have to deal with additional regulators and/or tanks.

 

[MNBugeater]

For those of you who might be looking for an alternative to the ASCO valves, STC makes a similar valve in a variety of configurations that mirror the ASCO specs.

The STCs arent as common on eBay but run considerably cheaper new from suppliers online. I was all set to go with the ASCO 8210 series and ended up buying the STC 2w160 series. You can get them pretty much any size you want.

I found this company that has a very good variety of them with what appeared to be great pricing. Picked up to for less than $100 with shipping.

http://www.fremontindustrialsupply.com/servlet/Categories?sfs=eb68128f

 

[korndog]

Well, after all of my research and purchases, my friend talked me into going with a spark ignition system. He made me an offer I couldn't refuse (sell me parts dirt cheap, install and wire for me). So, I will be selling my Asco 8210G075's and Basso pilot valves. If anyone has any interest, please PM me. They were not cheap, but I will naturally discount them somewhat. Brand new in box.

KD

 

[SuperiorBrew]

What exactly did you end up going with? I was leaning that way also, but was having trouble figuring out exactly what I need. I will be using propane.