Asco Red Hat Valves

[billtzk]

Here are a few pictures of burners with the pilot assemblies installed and burning http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/PilotLights

That is an impressive burner you have there kladue, and very helpful to see how the pilot assemblies are built.

 

[pieper]

billtzk - message sent

 

[pieper]

Hi billtzk,

I was wondering about the burner you used for your brutus build (http://www.topfoodservice.com/Mercha... tegory_Code=)

How is it? It is about half the cost of those offered by morebeer and I wondered if it is half the quality as well.

Also, about how long did it take for them to ship it out to you?

Any info would be great.

Thanks,

cmp

 

[Desert_Sky]

Now, you don't need stainless for a gas valve. The 8210G15 I got is exactly the same valve but in brass. Even so, the 8210G37 has extreme cool factor.

i will be ordering my temp controllers and two of these here within the month. Brass for me all the way too. I cant justify spending what they want for stainless

 

[korndog]

Would these work ok? They seem to be a discontinued model #8030A17

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-2-ASCO-RED-HA...yZ109496QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or these? 8210G2

http://cgi.ebay.com/ASCO-Red-Hat-Va...yZ109486QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[HarvInSTL]

Asco valves are the benchmark in solenoid valves, however there are so many different ones on ebay, finding the right ones was difficult for me, if you are using them to control the flow of gas( Brutus X) they need not be stainless steel. I believe the reason Lonnie used them was he wanted all the piping to be stainless steel to have it all match. After losing out on a few auctions, I searched for new ones at a reasonable price and found these ,

http://www.stcvalve.com/Process Valve.htm

this company was awesome to work with, and I paid like $53 dollars each for brand new, they shipped out really quick and seem to be a great alternative to the ASCO , if you want they have stainless steel too

Which valves did you order from STC? Best I can tell I need the 2H120-150, mainly because it uses a Viton seal and supports 0-1000PSI.

Thoughts?

 

[korndog]

Say Kladue or anyone else. Can you recommend a safety valve that would work for a standing pilot?

thanks
KD

 

[kladue]

Standing pilot safety valves for high pressure propane are spendy, usually found on the propane fired space heaters. I believe the valves are made by penn/baso and are rated for 10 psi+ which would work for most of the high pressure burner setup's. Would probably be cheaper if one found the parts on Ebay for an electric ignition system, ignition module, pilot burner, 24vac transformer, needle valve for pilot fuel control, 24vac solenoid valve for main gas.

 

[korndog]

Standing pilot safety valves for high pressure propane are spendy, usually found on the propane fired space heaters. I believe the valves are made by penn/baso and are rated for 10 psi+ which would work for most of the high pressure burner setup's. Would probably be cheaper if one found the parts on Ebay for an electric ignition system, ignition module, pilot burner, 24vac transformer, needle valve for pilot fuel control, 24vac solenoid valve for main gas.

K. Im using low pressure LP at 0.4 psi. any thoughts there? Im probably going to end up with your suggested setup but ame just checking all options. thanks

 

[kladue]

Here is a link to the Baso gas valve site http://www.baso.com/pdfs/catalog/automaticsinglegasvlv.pdf This covers both the low and high pressure versions of the model 19 valve. This valve uses one of the copper clad thermocouples heated by the pilot flame to keep valve open when pilot is burning. The high pressure version is rated for 25 psi, others are .5 psi. Here is a link to the Ebay site selling the Baso model 19 al for .5 psi operation at $16 each http://cgi.ebay.com/BASO-H19AL-1-GAS-PILOT-VALVE-JOHNSON-SERVICE-CO_W0QQitemZ190180222106QQihZ009QQcategoryZ53303QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem all that is needed is the thermocouple and a pilot burner

 

[Jaybird]

are you building all this for a HLT ?? Just wondering if so why not go with electric and a small temp controler?
JJ

 

[korndog]

Kladue - Thanks very much for that post. That's what I'm looking for. I can now decide on that or the spark ignition system.

Jaybird - Yeah, it's for both the HLT and MLT, but there is more to the story. It's part of a system you can see here.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p209/kornpoke/IMG_0097.jpg

KD

 

[knipknup]

I can't read anymore of this thread, it is making my brewing stuff seem lame...

 

[kladue]

Here is a pilot burner with thermocouple holderhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Pilot-burner-assembly-P-N-9880A0161_W0QQitemZ130195197380QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41987QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem, probably jetted for NG but will work with propane, you could get replacement jet for around $10-$15 to make burner burn with clean blue flame. with your setup install solenoid valve after pilot safety valve and pilot will stay lit when solenoid cycles. Good luck with your system build, looks great so far.

 

[korndog]

Here is a pilot burner with thermocouple holderhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Pilot-burner-assembly-P-N-9880A0161_W0QQitemZ130195197380QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41987QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem, probably jetted for NG but will work with propane, you could get replacement jet for around $10-$15 to make burner burn with clean blue flame. with your setup install solenoid valve after pilot safety valve and pilot will stay lit when solenoid cycles. Good luck with your system build, looks great so far.

Thanks again. Looking forward to getting this part done.

 

[Jaybird]

Korndog
whats the cost to do that in gas?? all in all I love my electric and dont see the reason tho go through all that you guys are having to go through when electric is so fast and efficent and controlable. there must be more to the story. Dont get me wrong I am a total DIY type of guy and think what you are doing is cool as hell. My system also uses Asco valves but its for automation of liquid flow not gas. the system you sent me a link to is cool. So to my original ?? whats the advantage for you all of gas over electric and whats the cost do you think?
Cheers
JJ

 

[kladue]

Electric brewing systems have their merits but when it comes to heat input to the brewing process you can get more heat with fewer bucks with gas fired systems.

 

[korndog]

Korndog
whats the cost to do that in gas?? all in all I love my electric and dont see the reason tho go through all that you guys are having to go through when electric is so fast and efficent and controlable. there must be more to the story. Dont get me wrong I am a total DIY type of guy and think what you are doing is cool as hell. My system also uses Asco valves but its for automation of liquid flow not gas. the system you sent me a link to is cool. So to my original ?? whats the advantage for you all of gas over electric and whats the cost do you think?
Cheers
JJ

I considered it at one time, but got a little spooked by the concept of putting heating elements in a kettle myself. Plus, I just didn't want to think about it that much. I just copied Lonnie Mac's plans with very few minor tweaks. As far as cost goes. I'm not sure about the actual fuel use, nor do I know what element would cost. My burners were about 50 bucks, Love control 50 bucks, Asco's 110 bucks for fuel rated.

 

[korndog]

One more question regarding gas manifold design, which I know little about.
I was thinking about inletting the gas through a cross between the two asco activated burners, while having the fourth branch go to the brew kettle. The safety valves are indicated on the drawing ("valve") between the cross and the burner risers. Is there any issue with pressure reaching all the burners? Naturally, i would not be using the kettle burner while the HLT and MLT burners are in use.

 

[kladue]

The gas plumbing looks right for automatic control of the HLT and MLT with manual control over the boil kettle. The regulator will be the limiting factor as to how many burners can be fired at same time. Would suggest you use a thread seal paste rather than teflon tape as the tape can end up in the wrong places inside of valves, might use rector seal Tru-Blu or permatex non hardening type gasket seal for threaded joints. If you end up wearing the permatex thread seal, use rubbing alcohol to remove it.

 

[korndog]

If you want to go with direct spark ignition then this model of ignition module would work well with the honeywell valve http://cgi.ebay.com/Honeywell-Direct-Spark-Ignition-Modules-S87J1034_W0QQitemZ260200757464QQihZ016QQcategoryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem, coupled with this pilot burner http://cgi.ebay.com/Q345-A-1321-Honeywell-Pilot-Burner-Igniter-Sensor-S86F_W0QQitemZ320205752306QQihZ011QQcategoryZ53303QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. If you are patient you can aquire these items on Ebay and use a 24VAC transformer with the Love controls to fire the burners on demand instead of needing a standing pilot, follow the schematic on the ignition module for wiring of components.

Kladue
Sorry to keep bugging you. If I go with spark ignition, would one module work for multiple burners, or do I need one for each burner and valve?

Thanks.

 

[kladue]

Spark modules are made to control a single burner only, the pilot valve with thermocouple is the same. You could put valves in a convient place and use a piezo type lighter to light pilot lights at start of brew day or find one of the battery powered spark ignitors that are made for BBQ's that can light multiple burners.

 

[korndog]

To beat this dead horse some more...

I was planning to have an adjustable flame for the kettle burner, and don't really need a pilot. Is there a safety shutoff setup you would recommend for this burner? Perhaps a gas valve direct to burner flame with built in adjustment? run thermocouple direct to burner flame? Or should I just go ahead and run the pilot too?

Thanks.

 

[kladue]

Most valves only let fuel through the pilot connection until you release the button to prevent surprises when lighting the pilot light. It would probably be better to plan on a pilot light if you want to use a pilot safety valve. Will you be away from kettle burner during operation, or within reach if you have a boilover and flameout, if so you may not need a safety valve.

 

[korndog]

Most valves only let fuel through the pilot connection until you release the button to prevent surprises when lighting the pilot light. It would probably be better to plan on a pilot light if you want to use a pilot safety valve. Will you be away from kettle burner during operation, or within reach if you have a boilover and flameout, if so you may not need a safety valve.

Ok, thanks, yeah i will be right there. Does this pilot installation look ok? Sorry about the phone pic. I was planning to use tie wire to attach it to the burner since I can't think of any other way.

 

[kladue]

Looks like the pilot is in a good spot, the flame can be adjusted on the valve to provide large enough flame to reliably light burner jet. You might try using a pipe plug in both sides of pilot opening of burner and drill through square head of plug and use long #8 bolt to attach a small piece of flat bar to mount pilot on. Clamp pilot for testing phase, the final test will be when keggle is on stand and burner is fired, you might have to make some minor adjustments to location to deal with drafts from operating burners, then bolt pilot in final position. Looking forward to seeing the final assembly pictures of your system, finally some one has done the right thing and used pilot safety valves for automated burners.

 

[korndog]

Looks like the pilot is in a good spot, the flame can be adjusted on the valve to provide large enough flame to reliably light burner jet. You might try using a pipe plug in both sides of pilot opening of burner and drill through square head of plug and use long #8 bolt to attach a small piece of flat bar to mount pilot on. Clamp pilot for testing phase, the final test will be when keggle is on stand and burner is fired, you might have to make some minor adjustments to location to deal with drafts from operating burners, then bolt pilot in final position. Looking forward to seeing the final assembly pictures of your system, finally some one has done the right thing and used pilot safety valves for automated burners.

Great information as usual. I'll try the mounting you recommend if can do it. Yeah, I got religion from reading your posts and decided to go the safe route. Besides, more valves and tubing adds to the industrial coolness effect.

Thanks again.

 

[korndog]

BTW, do you see any problem using a 1/2 x 3/8 bushing on the Asco valve to accommodate a 3/8 pilot valve in front of it? Or should I scrap the Asco's all together and get a combination valve?

 

[kladue]

Bushing in valve will work well, larger sized asco is not a problem. You might want to include a manual valve after asco valve for throttling burner, if installed upstream of safety it might cause pilot flame problems.

 

[korndog]

I don't see a pilot adjustment on those Baso valves on ebay. they are dirt cheap, so I would like to use them. Can I use a valve on the 1/4" line to adjust pilot?

Thanks
KD