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Orfy

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Is the art of brewing mearly pitching yeast?

Or does it have to involve more?

I personally don't consider mixing extract water and yeast brewing.
Yes it is making beer but it's a bit like putting a ready meal in the microwave and buttering a piece of bread. You can't call your self a chef.

I'm not getting into the debate about good beer coming from purely extract and I'm not saying people shouldn't do it.

So my question is;

Is every one that makes beer a brewer?
 

RICLARK

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orfy said:
Is the art of brewing mearly pitching yeast?

Or does it have to involve more?

I personally don't consider mixing extract water and yeast brewing.
Yes it is making beer but it's a bit like putting a ready meal in the microwave and buttering a piece of bread. You can't call your self a chef.

I'm not getting into the debate about good beer coming from purely extract and I'm not saying people shouldn't do it.

So my question is;

Is every one that makes beer a brewer?
I went Ag because I felt That I wasn't a brewer, So I guess I agree with you.
 

Ooompa Loompa

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Is a baker still a baker if they don't mill and process their own wheat to make flour? Is a chef still a chef if they make a dish that requires cheese and they don't make the cheese themselves? Is a tailor still a tailor if they don't make the thread and cloth that they use to make clothing? If you answered yes to these questions, then I don't see how could say that people who make beer using extract are not brewers. Extract brewing is not as simple as putting a ready meal in the microwave, or buttering a peice of bread. There is a lot of time and effort that goes into temperature control, adding hops at the right time, weighing steeping grains, monitoring fermentation temps, measuring gravities, sanitizing, etc. Buttering a peice of bread takes no thought, brewing a good beer, be it via extract, partial mash, or all grain takes thought and effort.
 

Judd

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A brewer is anyone who loves the art and science of making beer, whether or not they practice it. A baker is still a abker, even while he is not baking. A botanist is still a botanist, even if he doens't own a greenhouse. We're all brewers.
 

bluedragoon85

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I guess I'm not a true brewer as of yet. I merely do the 60 min boil and add yeast and so on, but.... I appreciate and adore what I do, because it's like a form of art and a waiting process in which the master peace aint done till it's done (whatever that means). I love trying new things, new styles, new recipes. I admit I am no true brewer, but I'm not cr3gtube trying to get a cheap buzz (not that that's bad, just not me), but otherwise making something that my taste buds will remember and expand on. Someday, maybe someday I will do all grain (pretty sure I will), but right now I just wanna get more experience, variety, knowledge, and understanding of this supreme art that has such a vast history and happyness. Hopefully one day I will become a true brewer, but as of now, I am way ahead from the BMC crowd and it just lightens my day because before this I was anxious of trying something different, not conforming to the masses and I found the answer. I don't know if I make much sense, I just got done drinking some APA home brews with some good friends. Good stuff!:mug:
 

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— brew·er \ˈbrü-ər, ˈbru(-ə)r\ noun
transitive verb:
1: to prepare (as beer or ale) by steeping, boiling, and fermentation or by infusion and fermentation

I consider making beer from extract to be brewing, where as there are other levels such as partial mash and all grain etc.

I see these guys in the pubs here all the time that have a guitar, an amp and a karaoke setup where they play guitar along with the music, and sing the lyrics. I consider them to be "singers", "Entertainers" and possibly even "Musicians"

Maybe after I raise my EAC level to AG, I will have a different outlook?
 

bluedragoon85

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Is a baker still a baker if they don't mill and process their own wheat to make flour? Is a chef still a chef if they make a dish that requires cheese and they don't make the cheese themselves? Is a tailor still a tailor if they don't make the thread and cloth that they use to make clothing? If you answered yes to these questions, then I don't see how could say that people who make beer using extract are not brewers. Extract brewing is not as simple as putting a ready meal in the microwave, or buttering a peice of bread. There is a lot of time and effort that goes into temperature control, adding hops at the right time, weighing steeping grains, monitoring fermentation temps, measuring gravities, sanitizing, etc. Buttering a peice of bread takes no thought, brewing a good beer, be it via extract, partial mash, or all grain takes thought and effort.
I agree. I might not be a traditional brewer, but I enjoy what I do (as previously posted) and put my heart into it so I end up with something I will enjoy and appreciate. I have respect for does who do all grain and I hope to do it one day and as of now I don't completely feel like a real brewer, but I hope that one day I will get there.
 
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What about beer in a bag/box? That may make beer and I have no qualms against people who do, particularily since a good number of them step up to more advanced brewing, but is it really "brewing" if you just add a yeast packet?
 

kenche

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Ok, I think that orfy may have been trying to stir up some sh1t here.

But if you consider his question carefully he is not asking whether extract brewers are true brewers, he asked whether the act of pitching yeast is brewing.

To this, I would have to say no. In B.C., we can buy beer from a U-Brew facility. The employees of the U-Brew operation do all of the work to prepare the wort. Due to B.C. laws, the customer must come pitch the yeast themselves. They then leave, and return two weeks later to pick up there beer.

In this scenario, the act of pitching yeast does not make one a brewer.

I would agree that 'mixing extract, water, and yeast' is not brewing. To me, that means those no-boil kits where you pour a bunch of sh1t in a bucket, throw in some yeast and wait for your beer. That is not brewing.
 

Danek

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kenche said:
If you consider his question carefully he is not asking whether extract brewers are true brewers, he asked whether the act of pitching yeast is brewing.
Another thing to consider is those Belgian dudes that let their beer ferment spontaneously. They're certainly brewers, but they don't add the yeast themselves.

I've always thought that I don't make the beer, the yeast does. I just have to look after them to make sure they're happy and well-fed. I guess I see myself more as the dairy farmer, and less like the cow.
 

wild

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Going AG was mostly just to have more control over the end product but I became a brewer the moment I walked in my LHBS and purchased my first brewing kit.
 

Bernie Brewer

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*goes out back to beat on the dead horse some more.*

Yes, it's still brewing. Even if you're only brewing from concentrate.
I went AG because it's more fun, not because I didn't think I was really brewing.
 

Yooper

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I made wine before I made beer, so I was very comfortable with fermentation even though there was no boiling at all. Making beer was a natural progression, from starting with extract kits and moving on to making up my own AG recipes. I would say that as long as you feel that you're making beer, you can call yourself a brewer.
 

Evan!

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At the end of the day, it's more of a "sliding scale" thing to me. I feel like I've been a brewer since the first time I boiled up some extract in water. But after 65 batches, and going AG, and crafting all my own recipes from scratch, and striving to perfect the science and process, and making beer that I honestly prefer over commercial craft brews, I feel like I'm more of a brewer now.
 

rdwj

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I think Extract is brewing for sure. There are still prenty of variables that you can adjust, you're just starting with stock.
 

Dextersmom

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this is like the chicken or the egg debate. or the nature vs nurture debate. I don't think there is any one real answer. its like the people who play golf...but aren't "golfers."

my 2 cents are a brewer (which i cannot consider myself yet but i'm on my way) is someone who turns brewing into their own personal science. Someone who puts some real thought into what they're doing (note taking, planning, research etc) in an attempt to create the best results possible under their brewing conditions. A brewer can be AG or extract as long as this effort is put forward.

make any sense?
 

the_bird

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Even among extract brewers, there's variance. I don't know the beer-in-a-box kits, so I can't speak to those, but what about the no-boil, kit-and-a-kilo kits? It's hard for me to consider that really brewing, since you're not boiling, you're not adding any specialty or character grains, you're not adding any hops....

But, someone who has light DME, steeps some crystal malt, does a couple of hop additions (basically where I started with Brewer's Best kits), I would consider that to be brewing. You're doing everything except making the extract.

But, it's a sliding scale, as I think Evan! noted... what about someone who jacks up a no-boil kit with some extra DME instread of sugar, and maybe does a quick boil with some flavor hops?
 

Jesse17

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My $0.02 worth...

If I open a can of chicken noodle soup dump it in a pot and heat it up, I'm not a cook.

If I open a can of chicken broth, dump it in a pot, add some pieces of chicken, and some raw noodles, boil it and add salt and pepper, I'm a cook.

So I go with the theory that if you just warm up/ferment someone else's complete meal/beer you're not cooking/brewing, but if you use someone else's broth/extract as an ingredient in your own product, you're still a cook/brewer.

I'm not sure where this leaves the just add yeast kits, but I'm leaning to being a brewer still. You still have to control temp. take SG readings, rack it, prime and bottle it. Oh, and ask if you ruined it.;)
 

maltMonkey

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I think the actual definition of "brewer" covers anyone who boils malt & water and ferments it into beer.....but I didn't "feel" like I was brewing until I went all grain.
 

Beerthoven

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orfy said:
... Is every one that makes beer a brewer?
Your question is like an existence theorem in mathematics. Does a solution to this problem exist? Yes, a solution exists. That's all it says. It gives no information about the nature of a particular solution to a particular problem.

So my answer to you is: Yes, everyone that makes beer is a brewer.

If the process involved malt, hops, yeast, and water then brewing has occurred. Even those who use only no-boil, pre-hopped kits are brewers.

You can argue (and I'd tend to agree) that AG brewers are deeper into their craft than extract brewers, who in turn are deeper into the craft than Mr. Beer brewers.

But what good could come of this? Why alienate a significant proportion of our community by suggesting that they are somehow not really brewers?

Its a big tent; I think we can all fit inside.

:fro: :mug:
 

PseudoChef

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Evan! said:
At the end of the day, it's more of a "sliding scale" thing to me. I feel like I've been a brewer since the first time I boiled up some extract in water. But after 65 batches, and going AG, and crafting all my own recipes from scratch, and striving to perfect the science and process, and making beer that I honestly prefer over commercial craft brews, I feel like I'm more of a brewer now.
Quoted for truth...somewhat.

I think making your own recipes, and excellent ones at that, are as important to the process as anything. Anyone can follow directions, but making your own recipe showcases the brewer's thought and ingenuity.

Although the 3 times I've used someone else's recipe (first extract batch, the American Brown I did (Mike McDole) and the 888 (Brewpastor)) I made great beer, it still wasn't totally satisfactory because I didn't craft the thought into how the beer would turn out ingredient wise.

Guess I'm just EAC to the max.
 

cubbies

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I personally feel that people who use extract and other adjuncts create a wort that they boil and add hops to are brewers. Adding a can of hopped extract to water and adding yeast, IMO is not brewing. It may be a first step, but it is not brewing.

As for my own personal experience, I personally did not feel like I was a brewer until i went all grain. I still think extract brewers are brewers, but for myself, I didnt feel like a brewer when I was doing extract.
 

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Merriam-Webster said:
Main Entry: 1brew
Pronunciation: \ˈbrü\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English brēowan; akin to Latin fervēre to boil — more at barm
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1: to prepare (as beer or ale) by steeping, boiling, and fermentation or by infusion and fermentation
Looks like extract brewers who steep specialty grains are covered :D
 

zoebisch01

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PseudoChef said:
I think making your own recipes, and excellent ones at that, are as important to the process as anything. Anyone can follow directions, but making your own recipe showcases the brewer's thought and ingenuity.
Additionally, more importantly imo, it shows that the brewer has an understanding of technique (which goes hand in hand with experience). Without a fundamental understanding, one can never progress beyond the constraints of recipes. Most 'good' recipes created from people that lack fundamental understanding are usually a matter of happenstance.
 
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Orfy

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Ok, I think that orfy may have been trying to stir up some sh1t here.
As for the **** comment, if that's your feelings then feel free to walk away from my **** stirring threads.

I'm not actually looking for an answer, I don't need an answer .

It's a little thing called the art of conversation.
Also being interested in the wide and interesting views of fellow members of this fine forum. ;)
 
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Brewer is an overarching term just like the analogous Chef.

Chef
Station Chef
Sous Chef
Executive Chef - who may not actually cook at all.

Commerical Brewer
Head Brewer
Assistant Brewer
Etc.

Working in a commercial brewery may warrant a title of Brewer but your duties might only entail one aspect of the entire process.
 

Evan!

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orfy said:
As for the **** comment, if that's your feelings then feel free to walk away from my **** stirring threads.

I'm not actually looking for an answer, I don't need an answer .

It's a little thing called the art of conversation.
Also being interested in the wide and interesting views of fellow members of this fine forum. ;)
I wasn't worried about you stirring the sh*t, orfman. That much was obvious. Actually, my initial reaction was, "oh, no you di-unt!" :D
 

AnOldUR

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The process of making beer starts with preparing the ground for growing hops and grain and ends with carbonation. How many of these steps do you have to do to be considered a brewer?

Brewing consists of adding water, grain, hops and yeast. If you are responsible for combining any of these ingredients and it results in beer, you are a brewer. That doesn’t mean your good at it or even understand it.

What if you did none of it? What if you reached the point where you owned a microbrewery and you crafted the recipes, but delegated the process?

The important step comes when you gain an understanding of the process and can combine ingredients without a recipe to create something unique and desirable. Just doing AG is not enough. You are no better then the hired help. At some level we are all brewers, but how many of us are Craft Brewers?

(Not me. I AG, but still have a lot to learn.)
 

maltMonkey

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I say if you're not growing your own hops and malting your own barley then you're not a brewer :D
 

homebrewer_99

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All good points so far, but I have to disagree with Orfy on this one.

Regardless of anyone else's opinion I consider myself a brewer. I use extract and steep grains. I will NEVER go all grain because (to me) it is a waste of time. I control the type and amount of DME I add to the water. This is called an additive art versus AGing where you boil down to a particular volume, which is called a subtractive art.

If you want to brew AG then have at it, but that doesn't mean an AGers brew tastes any better than someone who uses extract...different technique, same results. A moped can't go on the highway, but they can end up at the same destination as a race car. It just takes a little longer using a different route.

Hell, many brew pubs use extract now. Are they also not brewers? They have a diploma on the wall to prove they are. They spent a lot of money on the education and was awarded a certificate from an accredited institution so how can you/we say they are not?

To argue if a cook is really a cook or just someone who heats things up is a great comparison too.

A cook/chef does not receive live animals at their restaurant door. They are already dead, cleaned and packaged. Dessert ingredients come in 10# cans. Does he become a butcher just because he cuts a certain thickness of a steak? I don't think so. They may add a certain flair and art to the presentation, but in the end he is still just "heating" things up...sounds a lot like opening that can of soup that was mentioned earlier.;)

In the US it's legal for anyone to buy and mix up all the ingredients necessary to make beer, even the yeast. But you have to be 21 to add the yeast at the brew on the premises shops.

Orfy, you are entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but I just have to disagree with you on this subject.

We still cool? :D :mug:



As for growing your own hops goes, I have to agree with you. I grow my own hops, but I'm not a hop farmer. A hop farmer is not a brewer either, he's a hop farmer (unless he also brews).
 
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Orfy

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HB,

I'm looking for opinions, I'm not trying to say my point of view is right. It's just a point of view. I asked the question because I want to hear what others think.

The reason I asked is because when I added extract to water and pitched yeast I didn't feel like a brewer and felt cheated of the experience. Hell yeah, I made tasty beer but it was someone else's expertise and work that made it tasty.
 

Beerthoven

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orfy said:
As for the **** comment, if that's your feelings then feel free to walk away from my **** stirring threads.

I'm not actually looking for an answer, I don't need an answer .

It's a little thing called the art of conversation.
Also being interested in the wide and interesting views of fellow members of this fine forum. ;)
Ok, well I'm glad you added the quote because I thought I was the one who pissed you off. Maybe I did.

I can appreciate what you are saying. Only by mashing grains do you fully engage in the whole brewing process and in doing so earn the right to call yourself a brewer. My own interpretation is more inclusive, as I consider extract brewers to be real brewers also. The Mr. Beer types, well, thats harder to swallow, but I come down on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion.

It makes me sad and angry when I hear extract brewers say things like "I brew with extract and I feel like I'm not really a brewer. Its like I'm just opening a jar of Ragu." I feel like slapping them up side the head and telling them to quit feeling sorry for themselves and take some pride in what they are doing. AG brewing is the fullest expression of brewership, but you don't have to go AG to make damn good beer you can be proud of. I want people to go AG because it is something they want to explore, rather than because they feel they need to in order to have credibility.

As an AG brewer I don't want to put it in anybody's head that they are not fully a part of our community just because they brew with extract. I think that will ultimately drive people away from homebrewing.
 

DeathBrewer

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i view brewing as an art...all artists use the tools they have and the process that works best for them.

my all-grain brews have turned out fantastic lately, but i've still been making plenty of partial mash brews that are just as good. not that we are talking about taste here, but i think that's the important part.

i think it's the process that makes you a brewer. i design all my own recipes...haven't done a kit in a long time. i have certain methods i use to come up with the best brew i can.

extract really has nothing to do with it. most of my brews that use extract are just so i can brew in my kitchen...it's difficult to do all-grain there. some of the work is done for me, but i use it to my advantage, and i still mash some grains, because that's how you make great beer.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that IMO, if you are just brewing to make beer, you're not a brewer. anybody can throw extract, hops and water into a pot, boil, cool and add yeast. when you start getting into the science and art of it, that's when you become a true brewer.
 

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Orfy's a brewed up some Sh1t here!!! Orfy - You are a sh1t brewer!!! :D

I'm an engineer by profession but I don't drive a train!!!!

I think you are brewing if you make beer. Titles don't mean anything anymore.

You might have brewer grades;

  1. AG Brewer - Journeyman -
  2. PM Brewer - Apprentice I
  3. Extract Brewer - Apprentice II
  4. Anything Less - Amateur Enthusiast

Any of these ways you are still making beer!!!

:mug:
 
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