Are hipsters ruining craft beer?

[shoreman]

No but prices certainly are. I rarely try or drink any craft beer anymore. I'll pick up Sierra Nevada that's about it. The "extreme" do-dad, Johnny come lately beers are so overpriced I'm turned off by the whole scene. Ommegang 750's were $4 in my area when craft had a resurge, now they want upwards of $18 for a 750 - makes no sense, looks more like the real estate industry than craft beer. We all know what ingredients cost and if you can't control you biz expenses or or are just plain greedy, that's not craft...that's thinking on an industrial level.


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[unionrdr]

Yeah,I hate how even Super Walmart charges an average of $9.49 for a 6'r. On the other hand,they do carry Kona,Columbus,The Brew kettle & others. The Brew Kettle's White Rajah IPA is pretty good. Found Yuengling Bock & porter too.

 

[downtown3641]

No but prices certainly are. I rarely try or drink any craft beer anymore. I'll pick up Sierra Nevada that's about it. The "extreme" do-dad, Johnny come lately beers are so overpriced I'm turned off by the whole scene. Ommegang 750's were $4 in my area when craft had a resurge, now they want upwards of $18 for a 750 - makes no sense, looks more like the real estate industry than craft beer. We all know what ingredients cost and if you can't control you biz expenses or or are just plain greedy, that's not craft...that's thinking on an industrial level.


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That sounds more like inflation or a general cost of living increase in your area than a general increase in the cost of craft beer. Most six packs around here are under ten dollars. 750s of Ommegang vary depending on what beer you're getting, but the standards are $10 or $12. That's on par with a moderately cheap bottle of wine.

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[shoreman]

Downtown - I live in the state next to where ommegang is produced.

I don't buy the inflation argument or the ingredients argument. Let's just say Hennepin 750 for $10- that's more than double it's price in the matter of 8-10 years. That's not inflation it's expansion and getting larger economies of scale and all that.

The fact is that people aren't so much looking at it as a passion business anymore, it's full on mainstream biz.

I've worked in craft and know what it can take to setup a basic brewery for the passion of it but that's getting list IMO.

Tell me where you can go and get a working mans pint of bitter or mild or saison for a $2-3 pour theses days? I certainly don't see it.

Wine is more affordable these days and I've been buying more of it. You can score a nice Spanish granache for $5-6 a bottle - I can't score a great wallonian saison for $2 a small bottle.


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[shoreman]

I hear this all the time "why do I have to pay more for a growler that was produced in my hometown than I would for a Sam Adams 12 pack?" From non beer gnerds - I see that as a huge problem to "craft beer"


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[b-boy]

Yup - prices are definitely through the roof. A few years back I'd balk at paying $7 for a six pack. now I'm paying $11-$12 for a 4-pack. Bombers used to be $4 on average. Now it's more like $8-$10. Maybe the price of hops has gone up because of the demand? Maybe it transportation to get local stuff nationwide? That's the only reason I can think of for legitimate price increases like these.

 

[downtown3641]

Downtown - I live in the state next to where ommegang is produced.

I don't buy the inflation argument or the ingredients argument. Let's just say Hennepin 750 for $10- that's more than double it's price in the matter of 8-10 years. That's not inflation it's expansion and getting larger economies of scale and all that.

The fact is that people aren't so much looking at it as a passion business anymore, it's full on mainstream biz.

I've worked in craft and know what it can take to setup a basic brewery for the passion of it but that's getting list IMO.

Tell me where you can go and get a working mans pint of bitter or mild or saison for a $2-3 pour theses days? I certainly don't see it.

Wine is more affordable these days and I've been buying more of it. You can score a nice Spanish granache for $5-6 a bottle - I can't score a great wallonian saison for $2 a small bottle.


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Everything is more expensive than it was 10 or 15 years ago, craft beer included. That said, part of the reason you're seeing a higher price on Hennepin is because the market can handle it and Duvel is trying to make more of a profit.

You're drinking the wrong beers of you think most craft brewers aren't passionate. It is still a business, but that doesn't mean the passion is gone. Unfortunately, in this business, a larger supply of beer doesn't mean lower prices. Demand is certainly keeping up with supply, perhaps surpassing it. You also have to consider that the demand for equipment and ingredients has increased faster than supply (at least for equipment). I think you're expecting a lot if you expect to get a pint of craft beer for the same price that most bars sell Miller Light.

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[Chadwick]

Yep, prices are going through the roof for good beer. This is why I'm so thankful for being a home brewer. Take for instance my last batch of barleywine. I would have difficulty finding a beer that would be close to this beer in terms of richness, flavor, hop aroma, abv. That isn't to say that I can't find anything. A couple of beers come to mind that are close. However, those beers would cost me no less than $250 for the same amount I just brewed for just under $40 worth of ingredients.

Now I don't know about you folks, but to me, that is pretty hip. I think I'm "doing it right". Now ask me about why my Italian food tastes so good and I'll show you my herb garden and heirloom tomatoes. I'm a hippy type you say? Let me show you my gun collection and let me tell you how to age that venison to make it fork tender.

 

[shoreman]

Downtown- I'm not buying "craft beer" anymore, that's unfortunate as I've been a supporter of craft beer and the scene for over 20 years. I'll buy a Sierra seasonal 12 pack or a Victory Helious (appropriately priced at $3.95 for a bomber) every once in a while but that's it. I guess these guys can bank on continuing to increase prices but to me the value is not there. A lot of times you are taking a big risk on that $18 triple IPA being fresh when it's not labelled - that's not a risk I'm willing to take anymore - if it was $3 maybe.

All I'm saying is that the price gouging has ruined the craft scene for me and most of my friends agree and aren't buying either.


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[downtown3641]

"Price gouging"! Right. It's price gouging when a brewery charges more for a quality product than AB-InBev charges for their swill.

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[unionrdr]

I definitely agree. You're taking a risk on that $10 6'r when it doesn't have a BOD on it. Some places don't rotate their stock. Like Super Walmart. And at the prices craft beers are at nowadays,they don't move as fast. But Giant Eagle does a good job with their beer cooler. The young guy that manages it is friends with my son,the frozen manager & they're both craft beer guys.

 

[shoreman]

Maybe price gouging isn't the best term for it, overvalued is probably better.

I don't think we will agree on this and that's fine, at the end of the day we both are homebrewers and know that we knock out 5 gallons of a west coast IPA for the same price of some of these 750s, that's the route I've been taking moving ahead.


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[sandyeggoxj]

I agree that it is expensive, but some of you guys need too look at the books and follow the money. MOST of that money goes to the distributer and the retailer, at least in 3-tier States.

In states that allow self-distribution then the breweries can make a lot more revenue. It costs a lot to run a high-risk business like a brewery. The prices might be a bit inflated but if the bubble bursts then you will see a considerable attrition in the industry as many operations go out if business. Last year 948 new breweries opened their doors. That is incredible!

For those of you that correlate grain and hop prices with final cost need to consider the other aspects that add cost to a beer.

Just my thoughts here. I don't think craft beer is cheap, but it could cost more. Maybe I just live somewhere that has overall lower cost of great beer.

 

[aiptasia]

I agree that it is expensive, but some of you guys need too look at the books and follow the money. MOST of that money goes to the distributer and the retailer, at least in 3-tier States.

This is not always the case. Breweries do set their own wholesale price levels and can price themselves very high. My case in point is Hoppin' Frog, that recently released BORIS (their imperial stout) at $225 a sixtel wholesale. That's $225 for a little over five gallons. Out of that keg, you might get sixty ten ounce snifter glass pours (considering loss due to samples, overpour, foaming, etc.). That's not a lot of margin for a retailer when the average price for a pour might be in the $5 to $6 range.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

This is not always the case. Breweries do set their own wholesale price levels and can price themselves very high. My case in point is Hoppin' Frog, that recently released BORIS (their imperial stout) at $225 a sixtel wholesale. That's $225 for a little over five gallons. Out of that keg, you might get sixty ten ounce snifter glass pours (considering loss due to samples, overpour, foaming, etc.). That's not a lot of margin for a retailer when the average price for a pour might be in the $5 to $6 range.

Wow, they must have some really good marketing. Most distributors won't go for that. Good for them! For most craft $225 is high for halves, let alone sixtels.

 

[UberHasselhoff]

This is a total hipster apologist thing to say, but I think the more interest in beer the better for everyone.

 

[Skarekrough]

Yep, prices are going through the roof for good beer. This is why I'm so thankful for being a home brewer. Take for instance my last batch of barleywine. I would have difficulty finding a beer that would be close to this beer in terms of richness, flavor, hop aroma, abv. That isn't to say that I can't find anything. A couple of beers come to mind that are close. However, those beers would cost me no less than $250 for the same amount I just brewed for just under $40 worth of ingredients.

Largely that is the tack that I have started to take. For a half dozen bottles of craft brew I realize that I could have picked up a 50 pound bag of US 2-Row Malt. At a pretty reasonable ABV that could have been base malt for four or five batches. If I knuckle-down and wash yeast that takes a little more cash out of the development cycle. And let's not forget that the "failures" are usually perfectly drinkable and can easily be used for gifts, bartering, etc.

No, I may never make a dead-on recreation of some craft brewed beer. But it gets made up for when I can get close and then make changes t which suit my own palette.

And to get back to the OP that's where I think I see the grand divide. The "hipster" mindset is beset largely on discovery or the obscure or glorification of the wholly ordinary for the sake of irony. As homebrewers we live in the most obscure as what comes out of our kegs and bottles is the product of our efforts instead of their passive observance and consumerism. We have the ultimate in what it is they strive for.

However what separates us from them is that we know what makes something great because we made it and we made it how we would want it to be, not glorified something because we chased it down and just happened to be the first in line.

 

[fredthecat]

here's something perhaps not considered. can a culture ruin "craft beer"?

in korea, there are a lot of people with very small minds that are utterly uninteresting but want to seem sophisticated and wealthy to everyone else. wine and wine tasting was completely ruined here (and it seems in china and japan) in the past decade by a belief that wine is classy and a sign of sophistication. now fake bottles of french and other european wine flood the market and constantly thrown around as one-upping style presents. i'm not really into wine but i know enough to just laugh at the crap that they sell for 20 dollars a bottle plus.

extremely recently good beer culture has somehow been gotten wind of round here and i can imagine it being completely ruined. the store stocks a decent selection of belgian and american micro imports but at completely insane prices. would you like to buy a bottle of st. bernardus? me too. but do you want to at about 10 dollars per single 330ml bottle?

i will homebrew in silence, but it's almost ruined by imagining clueless oafs showing off by buying a round of "the most expensive beer on the menu" for everyone and then slamming it down as fast as they can.

 

[fuzzy2133]

I can under stand the extra cost of a barrel aged beer. One of the guys at a local brewery mentioned how they just leased more warehouse space (doubling their brewery storage area) to help with the demand they were getting from other local breweries for their barrel aging program.

I agree with the transportation complexity of getting a east coast beer expedited out west (goes both ways) in a way to keep the product fresh.

 

[Teromous]

I don't get that complicated when I buy beers. I don't sit and contemplate the transportation costs, storage, etc. I generally have two questions that have to be marked yes:

1. Do I want the beer? Yes/No
2. Can I afford the beer? Yes/No

 

[jglazer]

Sadly (or not) I don't really buy craft beer anymore. One day I found myself at a Kroger (grocery store here in NC) because I knew they released Hopslam the day before. I had to ask someone who worked there to get a 6 pack for me out of the back because that's where they keep it. They don't put it out on the shelves here...whole other issue/rant. After paying some ridiculous amount like $16-$20 for the 6 pack, I go home later in the evening and crack one open. I fairly quickly come to the realization that I probably have at least 3-4 better DIPA recipes laying around that are tried and true- better in every way I could describe an IPA then this super fresh Hopslam. There were a few instances since then like (for all you North Caroliners) Foothills Sexual Chocolate and it was the same thing, its a good solid beer but I've made so much better so many times for a fraction of the cost.

So personally I just can't seem to fork up the $$ when I can brew it so much better for so much less. More often than not I actually buy pbr and other cheap beers if I find myself at a bar feeling the need to socially drink because I know that any one of those craft beers on tap are going to be a disappointment. Oh and the cost difference is sometimes staggering around here, I guess it wouldnt be too bad if the prices were closer.

 

[sawbossFogg]

Sadly (or not) I don't really buy craft beer anymore. One day I found myself at a Kroger (grocery store here in NC) because I knew they released Hopslam the day before. I had to ask someone who worked there to get a 6 pack for me out of the back because that's where they keep it. They don't put it out on the shelves here...whole other issue/rant. After paying some ridiculous amount like $16-$20 for the 6 pack, I go home later in the evening and crack one open. I fairly quickly come to the realization that I probably have at least 3-4 better DIPA recipes laying around that are tried and true- better in every way I could describe an IPA then this super fresh Hopslam. There were a few instances since then like (for all you North Caroliners) Foothills Sexual Chocolate and it was the same thing, its a good solid beer but I've made so much better so many times for a fraction of the cost.

So personally I just can't seem to fork up the $$ when I can brew it so much better for so much less. More often than not I actually buy pbr and other cheap beers if I find myself at a bar feeling the need to socially drink because I know that any one of those craft beers on tap are going to be a disappointment. Oh and the cost difference is sometimes staggering around here, I guess it wouldnt be too bad if the prices were closer.

Cheers to that. I'd suggest looking for beers that you don't, won't, haven't or can't make to keep it fun and interesting.



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[cormano]

I have such a love affair with budweiser. Much like an affair, I tend to hide our love when in public.

Haha, perfect.

I hadn't had Budweiser since college when I started going to my girlfriend's family events. They always have Budweiser and Bud Light. I tried Budweiser and was very surprised by how enjoyable it was, so I tried a Bud Light… not so good.

 

[texwake]

IMO there are a bunch of variables associated with the price of a beer. You’re going to see big corporations charge less for a beer because they can produce more for a fraction of a cost than the craft brewers. They probably have contracts directly with the grain/hop producers so they can get it at a lower fixed cost. Some companies own the grain/hop farms under a different subsidiary so that would lower the cost substantially. If you think craft brewerys are charging you for more than they should then start your own brewery and undercut them.

 

[unionrdr]

Being retired,now with a $500 deductable on my hospitalization,it's tough to get the ingredients to brew a beer,let alone buy craft beer all the time. Dammit! I had to settle for old milwauee ice beer & cheap vodka.I still buy craft beer once a month or so. I can't wait for my books to start generating some passive income. That'll help.

 

[b-boy]

Haha, perfect.

I hadn't had Budweiser since college when I started going to my girlfriend's family events. They always have Budweiser and Bud Light. I tried Budweiser and was very surprised by how enjoyable it was, so I tried a Bud Light… not so good.

Nothing wrong with a BUD every now and then. That's my go to beer in a crappy bar situation. I've had many craft beers that weren't as good.

 

[fredthecat]

Sadly (or not) I don't really buy craft beer anymore. One day I found myself at a Kroger (grocery store here in NC) because I knew they released Hopslam the day before. I had to ask someone who worked there to get a 6 pack for me out of the back because that's where they keep it. They don't put it out on the shelves here...whole other issue/rant. After paying some ridiculous amount like $16-$20 for the 6 pack, I go home later in the evening and crack one open. I fairly quickly come to the realization that I probably have at least 3-4 better DIPA recipes laying around that are tried and true- better in every way I could describe an IPA then this super fresh Hopslam. There were a few instances since then like (for all you North Caroliners) Foothills Sexual Chocolate and it was the same thing, its a good solid beer but I've made so much better so many times for a fraction of the cost.

So personally I just can't seem to fork up the $$ when I can brew it so much better for so much less. More often than not I actually buy pbr and other cheap beers if I find myself at a bar feeling the need to socially drink because I know that any one of those craft beers on tap are going to be a disappointment. Oh and the cost difference is sometimes staggering around here, I guess it wouldnt be too bad if the prices were closer.

and the budweiser comment.

i think i was never into "craft beer". i just like good beer. there are tons of big, old companies that produce a good product in a mainstream manner. ie. wernesgruner, schneider, fullers. pbr and to a lesser extent bud have a time and place to drink. however, there are distinctly worthless beers ie. BMC light, BMC lime and beers that attempt to be something they're not (BMC "craft" beers).

I homebrew good beer and I try to buy goodbeer when i can.

 

[NotSure]

Hi. It's over seven years into the future from when this question was asked. The answer is, "Yes."

 

[Henbrew]

Hi. It's over seven years into the future from when this question was asked. The answer is, "Yes."

It is bad when I go to a store to look at the craft beer section and have no idea what the hell I'm looking at... well, it's all IPA but that's about all the information I can usually deduce.

 

[NotSure]

IPA? Do you mean IPA (cloudy) or West Coast IPA (actually clear like a properly made beer)? That's part of the issue. Definitions have changed. I've brewed with the understanding that "hazy is bad and a defect which should be avoided". However, along come Hipsters who appear to be glorifying failure by intentionally creating hazy beer. If I hear "juicy" one more time in a beer description, I'm going to lose it. If you want to drink juice, get your mom to put the straw in your box.

I'm fine with the definition of West Coast being clear. Years ago though, East Coast IPA's existed which were also clear and a combination of New World and Old World hops. That is now gone. Now, you have East Coast meaning hazy, which it shouldn't. Just my two cents.